Game of Thrones Season 7 discussion thread. (SPOILERS ABOUND)
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Not to toot my own horn, but... saw it coming since I first heard the "Jon is actually Rhaegar Targaryen and Lyanna Stark's son" theory.Samtemdo8 said:
The whole "romance" angle in the show was poorly handled to say the least, though. Not only it was given nowhere near enough time to develop convincingly, Tyrion of all people should have been smart enough to propose a political marriage if Jon refused to bend the knee as he did, and together they would probably have more than enough force of arms to pressure Cersei into a truce without having to go on some hare-brained undeadnapping quest.
They can move through water they just can't swim, it's an angle a few zombie movies have tried in the past. The undead may not be able to swim but their is nothing stopping them from walking in to the water, sinking to the bottom and then walking along the bottom of the water to get where ever they are going. Basically take a few dozen of your army give them the chains, get them to walk in to that lake the dragon crashed in to, they sink, find the downed dragon at the bottom hook the chains on and then either ride up with the dragon or just get left down there.Chimpzy said:
It is fucking stupid. From a plot perspective it was coming from a mile away and it sort of works. But where is the chemistry between Jon and Dany? When was this romance even developed in anything resembling a meaningful way? As far as I can tell there are two scenes were they are meant to deepen their affection in this season: The first being when they look at the First People drawings in the cave, where Clarke at least gives it serious effort to show that Dany has some sort of feelings for Jon (Harrington gives all the performance of a dry log though). The second is when Jon is recovering on the ship to Dragonstone and he bends the knee. Once again a scene were Clarke really busts ass to convey emotion (but for some reason goes with teary-eyed overwhelmed instead of swooning romance) while Harrington plays dead fish on the bed and emotes about as much as a dead fish.Samtemdo8 said:
The major problem is that there's no chemistry between Harrington and Clarke. Literally none. Every time they are on scene together they just don't seem all that attracted to one another. This isn't helped by direction that never gives them the chance to actually show it either. A smaller, but in this case fatal, problem is also that the lack of time developing the relationship and growing attraction between them hamstrings the entire thing. Without time for the viewer to see their growing affection and with no chemistry between the actors, the entire thing feels utterly unearned.
I am not asking for 90 minutes of rom com, but you need at least a few scenes of them actually doing something that can be construed as flirting or dating. Not just Jon giving Dany's dragon (sadly not an euphemism) a pat and Dany being starry-eyed at Jon's wisdom in interpreting old murals.
So its rushed, as it is the answer. But the lack of Chemsitry Jon is giving to Dany is rather in charcater because Jon is not a charmer, he's not a guy that flirts and has a charming personality like Tyrion. He's a blunt and mostly serious guy.Gethsemani said:
What do you expect him to act?
I think there's a larger issues with Dany is that it's difficult to work out how the audience is supposed to react to her. As an example, you have the way she burns Randall Tarly and his son to death, after they've surrendered, an event so horrible it has both Tyrion and Varys freaking out and wondering if they've made a terrible mistake in supporting her. And that's followed up with a scene where Dany talks with Jon about how great and pretty her dragons are, like they're lovable puppies, except that that they've just killed hundreds of people. Jon Snow the great idealist naturally doesn't care about the murdered prisoners, even though his grandfather and uncle died in a similar way. The tone is all over the place. You could maybe say that the writers are trying to show two sides of Dany's character, except that Jon doesn't react at all to the crazy fucker side even though he must be aware of eveything going on.
Not really. You can absolutely make a low affective character display affection. Shit, all of Leon hinges on the fact Jean Reno manages to play a closed, reclusive and introvert assassin that also displays genuine affection to a child he cares for. The problem is that Harrington gives nothing. No sideways smiles, no stolen glances, no soft words. The only indication we get that he's into Dany at any point is when Davos bluntly informs the audience that Jon keeps looking at her tits (when they go to meet Missandei to figure out where Dany went).Samtemdo8 said:
I do not expect Jon to suddenly go Don Juan on Dany and show up with chocolates, roses and a serenade about her. But the show gives us nothing, absolutely nothing. It is not a case of a introverted serious character (once again, Leon), it is a case of poor writing (not enough scenes to establish the relationship, even Clarke can't work with the two brief scenes they are given despite being unusually animated in them) and poor acting and directing all coming together to make it seem as if two characters that are barely friendly with one another suddenly are madly in love and gets their jollies on.
It is unearned. The show doesn't establish it enough, which makes it hollow and false to me. It has nothing to do with Jon's character and everything to do with the increasingly poor writing and direction on the show in general.
Well lets see how they follow up with this Unearned Romance because its pretty much a closed book case that Jon will learn of his true identity and heritage from Bran and Samwell. And I forsee an even more awkward and cringworthy reaction between Jon and Dany when they both find out.Gethsemani said:
And I think what made it worse for me is when they finally capitulate their relationship with sex, its Jon that is the one to enter her room and ask her of this.
Still bummed about Littlefinger's death. Like, I get it. I get he'd served any purpose to the plot and was now stuck with nothing to do, and I get the narrative reason to kill him and have Sansa pass the sentence. I get it... I'm just still not happy about one of my favourite characters dying. Again.
But I guess this is to be expected when I consistently find the more morally terrible characters to be the most engaging. They'd just better keep Cersei alive for as long as they can possibly get away with. I thought she'd go this season to end the war for the Iron Throne and focus season 8 entirely on the war against the Night King's army. But I'm glad she's still kicking... even if she is now totally alone as winter falls upon King's Landing in a way that's not at all ominous or anything.
I mean I know she's inevitably destined for death but hopefully they make it like the last goddamn thing that happen because I don't want a single damn episode without her in it if it can ever be avoided.
But I guess this is to be expected when I consistently find the more morally terrible characters to be the most engaging. They'd just better keep Cersei alive for as long as they can possibly get away with. I thought she'd go this season to end the war for the Iron Throne and focus season 8 entirely on the war against the Night King's army. But I'm glad she's still kicking... even if she is now totally alone as winter falls upon King's Landing in a way that's not at all ominous or anything.
I mean I know she's inevitably destined for death but hopefully they make it like the last goddamn thing that happen because I don't want a single damn episode without her in it if it can ever be avoided.
I live in hope, because at this point I am so on the side of House Lannister it's not even funny. I love Jaime, I adore Tyrion, and I goddamn worship Cersei.Hawki said:
Every man and his dog knows their is only one person that is going to kill The Mountain. It's been telegraphed since the 3rd or 4th episode of the first season.
I think Benioff and Weiss will change their mind and decide that Arya should kill the Mountain. What else is she going to do? Her only purpose now is killing the bad characters, and there's not that many left.Laughing Man said:
Is it even fair for her to kill the Mountain in revenge? The man is already an undead zombie, killing him would be a mercy for him. Because I doubt even the Mountain likes being a Zombie Slave.Breakdown said:
Did he Rape Her? Does he still have a functioning Sexual Organs and a libido urge to fuck?Breakdown said:
But still the point stands, he's already a dead man to Arya, Arya wants to make her targets suffer, to make them cry and beg for mercy for all things they have done to her, she won't get that satisfaction with the Mountain who is now a mindless stupid zombie who probably cannot comprehend pain.
She may kill Cersei though...so I am calling a Hound/Arya Team Up to kill the Mountain and Cersei together. Hound distracts and kills the Mountain while Arya sneaks into Cersei's room and murder-fuck her.
You know I kinda wish they only stopped adapting the books after season 3, because I really wanted to see how they would film Arya getting her Revenge on Joffery.
I think you've spent more time thinking about the Mountain's current state than the writers ever will. They probably just see the Mountain as a big boss who needs to be killed by a good guy.Samtemdo8 said:
And he will, but I don't think it will be Arya and I am hopeful they the writers would understand why.Breakdown said: