Game romances and you!

[Sigmund Av Volsung]

Some soothing music to start things off:

So, my friends, my fellow hermits, my nemeses, my senpais, etc.

I've been thinking a bit on Persona 4 and my own romance choices in it. I went for Chie, since she's one of the more positive characters in the game and oblivious whilst still being (sometimes needlessly) courageous.

The way I tend to conceptualise relationships is more of a partnership: does that person compliment me, do they inspire me to do better and are they a positive presence? She hits all of those areas, so when I caught myself going for her, I was a bit surprised at how close to home things got. Attributed to good writing, no doubt, but I really did feel like I had to treat this choice more importantly than in other games (such as Mass Effect) that have romance systems.

So yeah... it taught me a little bit about myself and the way I tend to view relationships...so where am I going with this?

Well, to what extent have game romances influenced/informed/changed/etc. you and your attitudes towards relationships? Can you think of any examples? What do you think of romance systems in general?

 

[Johnny Novgorod]

"Romance systems" have never impressed me. Romance isn't a system. A never leads to B. Most of the time A is an invisible checkpoint you won't realize you took until years later, and it doesn't lead to B, but to another alphabet altogether. Whereas games have you believe it's only a matter of choosing from a harem of options - like Persona, like Mass Effect, like Katawa Shoujo - and then Keep Pressing A or B Until It's Over For Good Or Bad. Characters don't grow, expectations don't change, moods don't swing, dreams don't clash, real problems never arise in the horizon and you always know what the other person in the relationship is thinking, so that decisions are always Right or Wrong, not Easy or Difficult.

Bull. Shit.

 

[Sigmund Av Volsung]

"Romance systems" have never impressed me. Romance isn't a system. A never leads to B. Most of the time A is an invisible checkpoint you won't realize you took until years later, and it doesn't lead to B, but to another alphabet altogether. Whereas games have you believe it's only a matter of choosing from a harem of options - like Persona, like Mass Effect, like Katawa Shoujo - and then Keep Pressing A or B Until It's Over For Good Or Bad. Characters don't grow, expectations don't change, moods don't swing, dreams don't clash, real problems never arise in the horizon and you always know what the other person in the relationship is thinking, so that decisions are always Right or Wrong, not Easy or Difficult.

Bull. Shit.

I'll admit, it does feel too game-y at times.

I usually like to point to Geralt & Triss in The Witcher series as a good example of romance in games. You get the sense that they care for each other, and it the romance is shown through little moments, not by the player choosing to press certain buttons. It is driven by the characters, and driven in a sensible fashion: yes, they care for one another but they have other, nice little interactions as well.

There's also the bit once you uncover the plot behind the assassinations in Act III of The Witcher 2, which makes Geralt doubt his own trust in Triss, coming to a head if he would get politics get in the way of protecting those who are dear to him.

 

[Sleepy Sol]

2D waifu relationships are the best kinds of relationships.

That's a good lesson to take from games with romance options, right?

In all seriousness, I don't think games with romance systems have drastically changed my viewpoint on real life romantic relationships very much. I don't really mind them that much either though.

 

[RJ 17]

"Romance systems" have never impressed me. Romance isn't a system. A never leads to B. Most of the time A is an invisible checkpoint you won't realize you took until years later, and it doesn't lead to B, but to another alphabet altogether. Whereas games have you believe it's only a matter of choosing from a harem of options - like Persona, like Mass Effect, like Katawa Shoujo - and then Keep Pressing A or B Until It's Over For Good Or Bad. Characters don't grow, expectations don't change, moods don't swing, dreams don't clash, real problems never arise in the horizon and you always know what the other person in the relationship is thinking, so that decisions are always Right or Wrong, not Easy or Difficult.

Bull. Shit.

Couldn't have put it better myself. If you're getting relationship advice/tips from games or feel that you should emulate behaviors in a game to help attract a mate then you're doing it wrong. It should go without saying that romance in games is highly idealized and fantasy-based. Click on the right dialogue options to say what the character wants to hear and they melt like butter, ultimately just throwing themselves at you regardless of if the two characters have any actual chemistry together.

HA! If only it were that easy in real life.

 

[sageoftruth]

"Romance systems" have never impressed me. Romance isn't a system. A never leads to B. Most of the time A is an invisible checkpoint you won't realize you took until years later, and it doesn't lead to B, but to another alphabet altogether. Whereas games have you believe it's only a matter of choosing from a harem of options - like Persona, like Mass Effect, like Katawa Shoujo - and then Keep Pressing A or B Until It's Over For Good Or Bad. Characters don't grow, expectations don't change, moods don't swing, dreams don't clash, real problems never arise in the horizon and you always know what the other person in the relationship is thinking, so that decisions are always Right or Wrong, not Easy or Difficult.

Bull. Shit.

True. Given that games need some system in order for romances to operate in them, the best-case scenario would be a romance system that does a decent enough job at NOT looking like a system. I have no idea how to make that work though. If anything, it would have to be a lot less overt about how well things are going between two characters.

 

[Casual Shinji]

I don't think I've ever seen a romance mechanic in a game that wasn't just some shallow fanservice, which is fine since that too can have its place, and I doubt it's ever going to improve.

That said, there are romances -- the non-influenceable -- that I do really like. Such as B.J. Blaskowitz and Anya in Wolfenstein: The New Order. Yeah, I know I keep wanking that game, but those two were great together, and even had not one, but two sex scenes that had merrit in the story. Something no other game, except maybe Prince of Persia: Sands of Time (and even then only once) ever pulled off.

 

[leberkaese]

I greatly distinguish between two kinds of romances in games.

The first one can be found in games from BioWare and Persona 4 and roughly 10 billion visual novels. You can choose between different partners and you'll get to them by . I don't like them. At all. It feels, like already mentioned above, way too game-y. Most of the times I completely ignore these romances. I ended up turning everyone down in Persona 4, because these kinds of romances feel awkward and most of the times misplaced.

The other kind of romance is comparable to movies/books etc.: It's just part of the story. You don't have much influence on the outcome. You may argue that this isn't game-y enough, after all we want to play games and don't want to watch movies, but this is the only kind of romance I like to see in a game. A well written romance that simply fits into the story.

snip

You pretty much said the same as I did (10minutes earlier than I did). I gotta learn to write faster...

 

[Secondhand Revenant]

Not at all that I can think of. The goal is totally different. In a game it's just another goal to complete. May be fun to do, I mean a game isn't just about completing goals but having fun doing it, but that's very different from a real relationship. I totally give answers tailored to the character in a game and not what I would think. Overall it's just two very different things.

 

[Sigmund Av Volsung]

Couldn't have put it better myself. If you're getting relationship advice/tips from games or feel that you should emulate behaviors in a game to help attract a mate then you're doing it wrong. It should go without saying that romance in games is highly idealized and fantasy-based. Click on the right dialogue options to say what the character wants to hear and they melt like butter, ultimately just throwing themselves at you regardless of if the two characters have any actual chemistry together.

HA! If only it were that easy in real life.

I never suggested either, only if interaction with romance systems reveals anything about the way you might treat such relationships in real life. Make no mistake, I don't take Shepard's awkward pickup lines as advice, I only want to investigate the psychology behind them(since they're written by real people who want to emulate real behaviour) and what it reveals about me when I consider the manner in which such conversations are presented >.>

 

[The Wykydtron]

I like game romances, I wouldn't say they would influence me in real life because let's be honest, even if I did think up responses to all possible situations, if some girl tries to flirt with me i'd be terrible regardless.

I like 2D because they end, among other reasons. Take say, Katawa Shoujo. Hisao and Hanako's relationship ends on possibly the most adorable scene ever (there are no other other correct routes and you should feel bad if you didn't pick her.) If this was real life they'd probably break up after a few years at best with the toll of having such an emotionally and physically scarred girlfriend weighing on him or Hanako finding it hard having an overprotective boyfriend treating her like fragile glass.

Visual Novels in particular tend to cut the story of a relationship as hits its peak so they don't have to show the following 20 years of life where their marriage goes sour and leads to an expensive divorce.

Yeah i'll stick with my 2D thanks, it's much less depressing. Those of you going on about how it's not like real life have probably missed that that's the point. Real life is lacklustre at best. Yes I don't have much interest in getting a girlfriend, how could you tell?

You two mad salty "tfw no gf T_T"* guys above might want to try a VN that has only one *real* path and how you get it is just following the story to the end without losing the plot and going into a small non-canon side route. I recommend Devil on the G-String cuz let's be fuckin' real who even would stop the amazing mystery plot to move onto a crappy side route even if they didn't like Haru?

Oh I was about to type an only joking about the salt thing but I just reread RJ17's post and the sodium overload is far too real. No offense intended.

 

[Fieldy409_v1legacy]

I tend to only do them once for whatever achievements I might earn. Second playthroughs I usually just cold shoulder everyone. Unless they give me bonuses, Ill do anything for a stat bonus....anything

 

[Danbo Jambo]

I really enjoyed playing all of Dragon Age: Origins romances. And for that matter Mass Effect 1 & 2's. None of them really "influenced/informed/changed/etc. me and my attitudes towards relationships", although DA:O did remind me of a time when I was more open to inocent, and what would be deemed as "purer" love. In that respect it made me stop and consider where I was and what I wanted out of any life-long relationship, so actually I guess it had more of an influence than I first thought! lol.

 

[MysticSlayer]

They remind me of my singleness! #foreveralone

More seriously, this thread has convinced me that I'm an absolute freak when it comes to game romances. Even with visual novels, I never really jump in looking for the characters I can romance, picking which one I want to romance, and then making the right decisions to lead to the romance. As a result, it doesn't really feel like I'm just trying to "win" the relationship, which sort of takes away the game-y feel of it all. Personally, I just go into the game, talk to characters because that's what I do (regardless of whether or not the game has romances), and if I start finding a particular character very interesting, I may see if there is a romance option available with them. Sometimes there is and sometimes there isn't. And except for under very unusual circumstances (mostly related to bad writing), I won't actually try to "talk" to the character with the intention of just trying to get the romance. If they're turned off by my responses, I move on.

So, yeah, maybe that's why I tend to get a little confused when people seem to think that romances (particularly in Mass Effect) just feel like you're trying to "win" them (for an achievement) and that there are never any real challenges faced. I don't think that they're perfect, but they hardly seem as bad as people make them out to be.

 

[Mikejames]

Guess I'll take the middle route and say it depends on the game. I can think of romance plotlines I've enjoyed, but there are plenty that are just sort of there.

On one hand, I did enjoy several character arcs in the Persona games, but the progression of different relationships don't really influence how anyone interacts or develops throughout the main story, and the (mostly) silent protagonists don't always make for engaging chemistry. So it's hit and miss.

Telltale might hit the mark closer if they were inclined to explore it, due to the fact that characters like Bigby and Snow White have defined personalities and a complimentary way of playing off of each other.

Then you have games like Silent Hill 2 which explore an atmosphere born from the ever-present potential for tragedies that come with love. Not exactly an uplifting sentiment, but it's sincere and thought provoking in its own right.

 

[Rahkshi500]

-snip-

Pretty much my same thoughts on the manner. I still feel that the way romances are portrayed in games is currently limited, since they just seem to try to lead things down the positive happy-ending kinda of route, which I don't have a problem with, but it is still pretty limiting with what we have in games. It makes me wonder what it would be like we had games that portray and bring up some of the negative aspects and downsides of romances, like genuine problems between couples, communication, insecurities, and even in some cases, coping with breaking up.

 

[Reasonable Atheist]

I find them extremely hollow and meaningless, usually I will simply choose whatever character I think will result in the most humour. Unless stat bonuses are involved, all hail stat bonuses.

 

[Silentpony_v1legacy]

I guess what I don't like about romance systems its they always show the initiation of the romance, but rarely something after that. Like in Mass Effect only rarely did the romance come back into play. There was never the option of random little dates with Tali or whatever. Yes, there was exactly 1 romance specific aside scene per character in Mass Effect 3(2 if you bought Citadel), but that was it. As far as we can tell, Tali and Shepard have only held hands twice.
And somehow that doesn't seem right.

Others like Dragon Age have been...okay. I mean I liked that you could initiate love scenes practically at will, but at the same time you never got a sense of how the characters actually felt. Once the romance had been started(as in no more cut-scenes to watch) then it was just a kiss, fade to black, and that's it. Never any follow up until like the last couple of scenes with Morrigan and the spell. Exact same problem in Inquisition. Spend time building a romance up, and at best you get a quick kiss and a fade to black and no more mentions.

I dunno. I guess from my experience in dating, the relationship wasn't so easily to compartmentalize. I mean how great would it be if you could actually go on a date with Cassandra? Or Tali? Kaidan? Liara? Cullen? Have an actual human moment rather than grrr grim desperate fuck!

 

[jshrike]

I'm not sure it really affected me in terms of my outlook on relationships, but I played through Baldur's Gate 2 when it came out at a time that just happened to coincide with my natural high school struggle of dating. I thought that in the game, at least, I would be able to persevere, and for a whole, I did. Then Throne of Baal game out and the ending with Viconia hit me like a giant space hamster out of revenge. As time passed, I was able to appreciate it for what it was and it, honestly, is the ruler by which I measure all other video game romances.

The romances in that game have the beginnings of what would end up being Bioware romances, but they were very much the slow burn. Moments were scripted and hit particular beats so it is far from as...I guess available as more recent games, but it felt a little more organic to me. But I will admit that BG2 is kind of a special game for me and I admittedly haven't played through it with a more discerning eye. Having had my share of both good and bad relationships in real life, I might see things differently, but until I prove myself wrong I'm sticking by it.

More recently, the best game romance I've seen in a long time is from Wolfenstein: The New Order. It was basically what an actual linear progression through the Bioware romances would really be like (people meet in difficult situation, have a connection, get their sexy on in between killing stuff, then more shit happens) and it felt a little more natural. I would honestly prefer it if Bioware didn't have the 'payoff' sex scene be up to the player in terms of timing but just kind of happen organically. I know that takes away player autonomy a little bit but once you, as the player, express your intention to romance a character with your character, scripted narrative should take over and just move you down the path. Otherwise it just feel like a side quest and, despite having to kill big bad X, human (or dwarf, or Quarian) nature would skew the focus towards that romanced character even with everything else going on. Lately, it's just felt like it's kind of something that happens and then is largely forgotten as the game plays out.

That's off topic. Sorry for that

 

[Azure23]

I'm all about the romances in the Fire Emblem games, or as I like to call them- tactical shipping simulators.

Whether it's the simple but effective support conversation system (have units with pre set affinities fight next to each other for long enough and they'll develop a relationship, romantic or otherwise, and then gain stat bonuses when in proximity) or Awakening's more in depth system (creating incredibly broken child characters who have inherited all the most op class skills from their parents), I love that shit. And depending on the game they can be pretty poignant and well written too, with alternately adorable or heartbreaking paired endings in the epilogue (one of my favorites concerns two sorcerers from FE7 who die together holding back a fucking blizzard from destroying a village, and their child can become one of the most OP mages in the previous game since FE7 was a prequel).

Needless to say I was super disappointed when Radiant Dawn turned support conversations into two characters spouting a canned line that didn't even make sense put together.

Wolfenstein the New Order also gets points for having a surprisingly human core in the romance between BJ and Anya. Man that game is fucking great. More people should play it.