Gameplay that makes no sence

[TheGreekDollmaker]

Pulling grenades and knives out your ass in a seconds notice is straight up bullshit in modern FPSs. It's not realistic and breaks gameplay.

Sarcastic rant about how games need to be hyper realistic to be good instead of fun

The fact that it breaks gameplay is the issue, not realism. I love a wide range of games, Metal Gear Online is my favorite online shooter this gen and it's not very realistic. This fall I've played Vanquish, Castlevania, Sly Cooper, and Need for Speed: Hot Pursuit. All of those games are like the opposite of realistic. If a game going for a realistic graphical style, shouldn't the gameplay match the visuals?

The problem with 1 button nade tossing in a shooter is that fact that when you throw a nade, you should be in a vulnerable situation while you throw it. You can literally push the grenade button and be shooting within a second. Every good, balanced game makes you more vulnerable while you are executing a stronger attack than executing a weaker attack. Every fighting game (whether realistic or completely over-the-top) makes heavy attacks more risky than light attacks. In Uncharted 2 online, you can toss a nade just as you are losing the gunfight to kill your opponent when you should've lost because you can throw it while shooting. If you had to switch from your gun to your nades, that wouldn't be possible.

My rant was never on about games being hyper realistic, neither do i propose that all games need to abandoned fun in favor of something else.

I apologise for not saying it more clearly but my main problem with thos War shooter isnt that they arent realistic enough, its that in their goal too make videogames as realistic as possible they have completly ignored the gameplay aspect, instead favoring on adding more polygons on the screen.

Every War FPS that has ever released that even had the small semblence of a message about war or a theme has completly failed because they contradict their basic Gameplay strategy.They make huge battle grounds and they fill those battle grounds by people exploding and shit flying in the sky as realistic as possible that it almost feels that i could really get blown off even if one bullet hits me.

But than the Gameplay emphasises for me to Charge in like the Fucking Transporter, completly ruining any semblence of the game ever making any serious attemb at even trying to say something about war.

Waht im saying is that the FPS shooter's story is always poor and completly contradicts most of the gameplay.

Im just looking for a game worthy of the Saving Private Ryan's or Schildrens list of the world.There has been a complete lack of war games that even tries to potray the fear and stigma war holds again trying to be Halo like the millions of other war shooters that have come and go.

Hiding behind a wall and waiting for my head to get blown off while i watch my teammates get blown to shreads i think is something we really havent exprianced in the gaming world.

I dont suggest that realism is the way all games need to go.I think that there are several other games that we can achieve the afformentioned result.

The point im trying to make is that too many games have gameplay that completly shutters everything teh story was trying achieve.If we manage to merge this too together with out them completly conterdicting each other than Roger Ebert will propably Shut up about that whole debate.

In order to move as a medium we need to expirement gameplay with the whole spectrum of emotions.

We need to - And i dont say this lightly - make games that arent fun to play.

That instead of being playied to be just mildless reflex amusements,to be playied for the Fear,The drama or the feeling you get when your playing it and understandin its point/

To be fair there is an part of the gaming industry that has been doing that.Survival horror games are ,or rather were, doing this with the rise of Silent Hill and Resident Evil (Before RE4).Their cryptic and horror stories kept me at the edge of your seat and terryfied me to no end.
Silent hill in fact i would consider the best game that manages to merge story,themes and gameplay flawlessly.Its haunting story was expressed by mostly the gameplay (even chaning the ending dependin of how much you dicked around) and it was really fucking atmospheric and lonely.

To bad that industry is kinda disappearing only to be replaced by the Action Horror genre where im given 2 shotguns and a laser cannon to fight zombie aliens in half lit corridors.

I think i have expressed everything that was needed.

 

[teebeeohh]

The Void

Okay, so you start the game by getting a heart, but the heart is empty. You've got to fill it with something before you die. What do you fill it with? Blood, right?

NO! COLOR!

That's right, you take some Color from your Memory (I used Azure) and put it in your heart, and then you go around collecting more Color so you don't starve to death in the Void.

In the Void, your heart converts Color to Nerva, which is the color your heart has "digested". You can use that Color to feed trees which grow more color you can put in your heart, trap fireflies which give you more color when you catch them, and fight undead monsters which look screaming rabbit turds and giant bats with their heads cut off.

That's right, you kill monsters by throwing color at them. Not paint, COLOR.

And if you ever run out of color in your hearts (you can have up to 20 hearts) you die. Except you don't really die, you just lose your soul and slip into the darkness where you will... do... something for all eternity.

The object of the (early) game is to feed the Nameless Sister with Color so she'll become happy again. And then she starts taking her clothes off, except they're not really clothes they're sparkling rings of light...

And then you meet the Brothers, who look like the bastard children of all the monsters from Doom 3, Quake 4, and Clive Barker's: Jericho, who get pissed at you for wasting color, constantly threaten to kill you every time you screw up, and make you rip the Nameless Sister's heart out. And you get to keep it. And it gives you special powers.

THAT is some gameplay that "makes no sence".

and it still didn't involve chest high walls, so that's a good thing

rpg elements: by shooting people you learn how get better at picking locks and speaking

 

[Phoenixmgs_v1legacy]

Health regen completely breaks online play, and almost always hurts single player as well (I can live with it in single player but prefer not to)...

Pulling grenades and knives out your ass in a seconds notice is straight up bullshit in modern FPSs. It's not realistic and breaks gameplay.

I guess I'll have to disagree. Regenerating health doesn't reward poor play, it encourages exploration, it reduces the effect of cheap AI, it completely negates back-tracking...

And maybe I'm OCD, but seeing my health display at anything other than 100 fills me with intense rage. It's why I always have to reload, I literally can't stand more than a minute of less than a hundred health, it pisses me off so much. If it's regenerating, I don't mind, because I know it's going to get better.

As for the second point...

When I, say, pull something out of my pocket in real life, it takes me a few seconds. Maybe, if I can't find it or have a lot of stuff in there, even a minute. Throughout this time, I'm not bored, because my hands and mind are busy, I'm doing something.

When a video-game character, and not me, takes thirty seconds to holster his current weapon, draw a second one, turn off the safety, pull back the slide, and finally aim, I'm not doing anything. I hit a button, and I'm now waiting on that character to complete an action. I was having fun prior to switching weapons, and I now I will have fun afterward. The entire time in between is deliberately an un-fun zone, and, in my opinion, should be kept at a minimum. Four or five seconds, tops.

And drawing a knife doesn't take that long. I mean, longer than in a game, but still not very long. Realism is important, but in patently unrealistic things, it shouldn't be used as a critique. If you were complaining about lack or realism in, say, ARMA, then I would agree. Realism is the whole point. In most modern FPSs? The point is a few minor elements of realism, mixed in with more Michael Bay elements. Complaining about lack of realism there is like complaining about the lack of action scenes in The Office. It's not the point.

I was mainly talking about how health regen is bad for online because if you get hit and not killed as you're running about then you can move around and then engage the player that shot you while being on an equal playing ground when you should be at a health disadvantage because he shot you. I can live with it in single player as Vanquish is the best shooter this gen and it has health regen. Health regen can keep a game moving at a fast pace since you don't have to find medkits or heal.

The problem with 1 button nade tossing in a shooter is that fact that when you throw a nade, you should be in a vulnerable situation while you throw it. It's just that it breaks gameplay, not that it breaks realism. You can literally push the grenade button and be shooting within a second. Every good, balanced game makes you more vulnerable while you are executing a stronger attack than executing a weaker attack. Every fighting game (whether realistic or completely over-the-top) makes heavy attacks more risky than light attacks. In Uncharted 2 online, you can toss a nade just as you are losing the gunfight to kill your opponent when you should've lost because you can throw it while shooting. If you had to switch from your gun to your nades, that wouldn't be possible.

My rant was never on about games being hyper realistic, neither do i propose that all games need to abandoned fun in favor of something else.

I apologise for not saying it more clearly but my main problem with thos War shooter isnt that they arent realistic enough, its that in their goal too make videogames as realistic as possible they have completly ignored the gameplay aspect, instead favoring on adding more polygons on the screen.

...

In order to move as a medium we need to expirement gameplay with the whole spectrum of emotions.

We need to - And i dont say this lightly - make games that arent fun to play.

That instead of being playied to be just mildless reflex amusements,to be playied for the Fear,The drama or the feeling you get when your playing it and understandin its point/

To be fair there is an part of the gaming industry that has been doing that.Survival horror games are ,or rather were, doing this with the rise of Silent Hill and Resident Evil (Before RE4).Their cryptic and horror stories kept me at the edge of your seat and terryfied me to no end.
Silent hill in fact i would consider the best game that manages to merge story,themes and gameplay flawlessly.Its haunting story was expressed by mostly the gameplay (even chaning the ending dependin of how much you dicked around) and it was really fucking atmospheric and lonely.

To bad that industry is kinda disappearing only to be replaced by the Action Horror genre where im given 2 shotguns and a laser cannon to fight zombie aliens in half lit corridors.

I think i have expressed everything that was needed.

Sorry, I totally thought you were thinking that I want games to be super realistic. Then, your whole post was sarcastically saying that games need to be fun first and foremost.

Anyways, I like your ideas of games to be, I guess, un-fun and be more like dramas and do serious stuff with the gameplay and not just the subject matter. I still think the game needs to be entertaining even though the gameplay isn't about shooting stuff up and whatnot. People watch those serious movies because they are in some way entertaining just not in the way The Transporter is LOL. I really would love more games where you just walk around and do stuff like you are in an actual drama or horror movie. I loved Shadow of Destiny, which is basically just a 3D adventure game where you walk around, talk to people, and go back in time to stop your own murder from happening. It was no Schindler's List but it was a pretty interesting mystery tale. These games your are talking about can also include a lot of actual role playing as well, which would be awesome. Probably the main issue is that you have to have good writing (which is a problem for most movies and TV shows) for them to work as the gameplay alone would not be good enough to overcome bad writing.

 

[Spectrum_Prez]

I see this thread has meandered a bit, but in response to the original question (gameplay that doesn't really fit in the game) I really have to bring up the KOTOR tie-fighter shooting section. That was really the one major flaw in that game, made absolutely no sense and seemed like a stupid throwback. Same thing in Jade Empire (seriously, what the hell, Bioware), and the damn bomber machine-gun parts in the first two CoDs.

 

[Jroo wuz heer]

How did you get the jam off your face? You didn't even wipe your eyes...
MW2

Well, you don't really have to get it off your face. Just your cornea. Even if it's completely covering your face, as long as your cornea is uncovered it won't affect your vision at all. As for how it could get off of there, that's a good question, but the answer can probably be found <link=http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eyelid>here.

Well, yes, but I'd have thought the eyelid would sweep the jam away, but it just fades...

How did you get the jam off your face? You didn't even wipe your eyes...
MW2

The tongue. It does wonders, my man!

That's one huge-ass invisible tongue!

Well, with that much stuff right in your eye, it would probably be a combination of sweeping by the eyelid and increased lacrimation diluting it to the point where it would be less visible. Maybe this dilutional effect could explain it.

But then... why aren't there blinks on the screen... hmmmm... I need to do some more research, clearly.

am i the only one wondering whaT the hell just happened

 

[Manoose47]

Right I thought about this in uncharted 2, it's good game but why does Drake heal in 30 seconds after getting 12 buttles to the chest, without being superhuman or wearing some kind of power armor.
So my question is have you played a game and thought that a part of gameplay that dosen't fit into the story or setting

Getting shot and taking a second to stop the bleeding and clear your mind isn't really any less realistic than getting shot five times, continuing to operate at peak levels, and hoping that you can find a first-aid kit that will allow you to be shot just as many times again with no effect before a sixth consecutive shot finishes you off.

while thats true, the problem isn't that the game is being unrealistic
(its a game after all), it's the fact that having regeneration or that kind of failsafe, for no good reason is immersion breaking; it means being shot has no mental impact on the player,
there's no fear of having low health for extended periods of time because you can just duck and cover til your back to full health. But if you had to scavenge for healing packs to restore your wounds it adds an extra element of suspense to the game.

furthermore regen is for pussies!
your only a man if you can perform meatball surgery on yourself while under fire

 

[swolf]

How did you get the jam off your face? You didn't even wipe your eyes...
MW2

Painful stimuli causing increased pressure on the ocular nerve resulting in diminished eyesight? The pain coming from the impact of bullets hitting the bulletproof armor?

 

[SL33TBL1ND]

How did you get the jam off your face? You didn't even wipe your eyes...
MW2

Jam? sounds delicous!

Indeed! At first, I thought perhaps he'd licked the jam off his face, but that'd mean his tongue was huuuge...

But I don't remember there being any jam in MW2 :/

Wow, you mustn't have gotten shot at all then.

 

[My name is Fiction]

How did you get the jam off your face? You didn't even wipe your eyes...
MW2

Jam? sounds delicous!

Indeed! At first, I thought perhaps he'd licked the jam off his face, but that'd mean his tongue was huuuge...

But I don't remember there being any jam in MW2 :/

Wow, you mustn't have gotten shot at all then.

\

You must be right! [ Now understands ] Well I don't like strawberry more a apple butter kind of guy. :/

 

[Psycho Cat Industries]

Spore.If it is really based off of evolution then I can guarantee that 10-year-old's censor worthy monster would be eaten alive

 

[TheYellowCellPhone]

Near every point-and-click adventure game or RPG has you carrying truckloads of weapons, power-ups and health, but you never see them carry it.

 

[Simon1]

Wow. Uncharted 2 is NOT the first game to implement regenerating health. At all. Also, there is no reason other then to(arguably) benefit the gameplay.

Now what doesn't make sense is Master Chief's moon-bouncing. The armor alone must weigh as much as a fucking semi truck.

Yes but it is powered armor. If the dude can flip a tank with it, its resonable to assume that it will allow him to jump higher.

 

[Reaper195]

All quick time events. Christ, I'd rather watch a decent cutscene than mash some buttons the screen is demanding of me.

 

[Simon1]

Wow. Uncharted 2 is NOT the first game to implement regenerating health. At all. Also, there is no reason other then to(arguably) benefit the gameplay.

Now what doesn't make sense is Master Chief's moon-bouncing. The armor alone must weigh as much as a fucking semi truck.

Yes but it is powered armor. If the dude can flip a tank with it, its resonable to assume that it will allow him to jump higher. Double post, my bad.

 

[Veylon]

No, because it's a video game that wouldn't be as fun with a lot of mechanics changed for realism. People are way too obsessed with this "realism for immersion" stuff. I would rather recover from bullets after a battle than fear each gun-wielding opponent because of the possibility that a shot to the leg will cripple my character, or that a shot to the head will make the game self-destruct, since second chances aren't realistic.

I agree, what would you rather do? Heal after 30 seconds or spend 6 months recovering in a hospital bed in game

I know which one I would choose...

In Dwarf Fortress there's realistic healing. Injured Dwarves have to be dragged to the hospital, diagnosed, have surgery/casts/cleaning down, and then either heal or die from infection. Unless, of course, the injured part has been severed completely, in which case they will spend the rest of their lives bedridden or on crutches. Other injuries can include blindness (causing lots of falling), spinal injuries, internal organ damage, brain damage, or plain old illness. Healing Dwarves will also have to be fed and brought water.

One time, I became a great hero but lost the use of both arms due to injuries. My combat consisted of alternately biting and kicking supernatural monstrosities while hoping that my comrades (attracted by my Hero-ness) would dispatch the enemy. Eventually, a troll bashed in my head.

If this game had graphics, it'd probably be about the goriest, most horrible game ever. Nobody ever seems to die clean, it's just one severed limb/ruptured organ/broken bone after another until they collapse from pain and drown in their own blood. Battlefields are covered with body parts and Dwarves track blood and vomit everywhere. So, this once, Realism FTW!

 

[Ashcrexl]

to make a game fun, they have to make like 80%-100% of it unrealistic. so i could name a lot. my favorite though is continues. because its classic and most people cant even imagine playing games without it. the only games i can think of off the top of my head with no continues is i wanna be the guy on impossible and heavy rain.

 

[megapenguinx]

Right I thought about this in uncharted 2, it's good game but why does Drake heal in 30 seconds after getting 12 buttles to the chest, without being superhuman or wearing some kind of power armor.
So my question is have you played a game and thought that a part of gameplay that dosen't fit into the story or setting

It's a game....if you took more than one bullet chances are you wouldn't be swinging and running around like he was.

 

[C95J]

snip

ha, that is actually awesome! sounds fun, and I have yet to play that game

 

[Archangel768]

why should it matter if it makes sense? As long as it's fun. Although I like what happens in a story to make sense unless it's purely for comedy. A lot of people say turn based combat is stupid because the people wouldn't stand there in real life waiting for their turn to fight. It isn't real life, it's a game and it's fun to use strategy in turn based combat.

 

[Ironic Pirate]

Health regen completely breaks online play, and almost always hurts single player as well (I can live with it in single player but prefer not to)...

Pulling grenades and knives out your ass in a seconds notice is straight up bullshit in modern FPSs. It's not realistic and breaks gameplay.

I guess I'll have to disagree. Regenerating health doesn't reward poor play, it encourages exploration, it reduces the effect of cheap AI, it completely negates back-tracking...

And maybe I'm OCD, but seeing my health display at anything other than 100 fills me with intense rage. It's why I always have to reload, I literally can't stand more than a minute of less than a hundred health, it pisses me off so much. If it's regenerating, I don't mind, because I know it's going to get better.

As for the second point...

When I, say, pull something out of my pocket in real life, it takes me a few seconds. Maybe, if I can't find it or have a lot of stuff in there, even a minute. Throughout this time, I'm not bored, because my hands and mind are busy, I'm doing something.

When a video-game character, and not me, takes thirty seconds to holster his current weapon, draw a second one, turn off the safety, pull back the slide, and finally aim, I'm not doing anything. I hit a button, and I'm now waiting on that character to complete an action. I was having fun prior to switching weapons, and I now I will have fun afterward. The entire time in between is deliberately an un-fun zone, and, in my opinion, should be kept at a minimum. Four or five seconds, tops.

And drawing a knife doesn't take that long. I mean, longer than in a game, but still not very long. Realism is important, but in patently unrealistic things, it shouldn't be used as a critique. If you were complaining about lack or realism in, say, ARMA, then I would agree. Realism is the whole point. In most modern FPSs? The point is a few minor elements of realism, mixed in with more Michael Bay elements. Complaining about lack of realism there is like complaining about the lack of action scenes in The Office. It's not the point.

I was mainly talking about how health regen is bad for online because if you get hit and not killed as you're running about then you can move around and then engage the player that shot you while being on an equal playing ground when you should be at a health disadvantage because he shot you. I can live with it in single player as Vanquish is the best shooter this gen and it has health regen. Health regen can keep a game moving at a fast pace since you don't have to find medkits or heal.

The problem with 1 button nade tossing in a shooter is that fact that when you throw a nade, you should be in a vulnerable situation while you throw it. It's just that it breaks gameplay, not that it breaks realism. You can literally push the grenade button and be shooting within a second. Every good, balanced game makes you more vulnerable while you are executing a stronger attack than executing a weaker attack. Every fighting game (whether realistic or completely over-the-top) makes heavy attacks more risky than light attacks. In Uncharted 2 online, you can toss a nade just as you are losing the gunfight to kill your opponent when you should've lost because you can throw it while shooting. If you had to switch from your gun to your nades, that wouldn't be possible.

I can kind of see what you're saying there, but there are some other problems.

Let's say the game uses some kind of "health zone" or medkit spawn section. This system is a tad rare, but I've seen it. These places are often camped, because it's incredibly easy. Most of the people coming to them are going to be injured, and potentially low on ammo. Even if they manage to wound the campers, the campers are where the medkits spawn, so it doesn't matter.

Another system is having medics, people that can heal other players. This works okay, accept that to balance medics they're often given shit guns, which makes people not want to play them. If given decent guns, everyone plays them and the rest of the classes get neglected. And then there's the whole "people are dicks, and relying on them is dangerous" factor. Imagine the average Xbox live player. Now imagine relying on them for health. Did anyone else involuntarily shudder? I'm not saying the medic system doesn't work, it just has it's problems.

I think the best non-regeneration way is when people can heal themselves. For example, the health needle in Bad Company 1. It takes a second to pull out, once used it takes a few seconds to fully heal you, and has to regenerate it's healing power. That system worked great, except that only one class had the needle. There were also medics, but most medics were in it for the LMG and didn't heal anybody else.

As for the bit about grenades, I agree with you, actually. I misread your original comment...

The way I think grenades should work (to avoid things like unreliable weapon wheels, etc) is you press the nade button to pull out a grenade, which takes as much time as a weapon switch. You can press the shoot button to just chuck it, or hit another button (say, the reload button) to pull the pin and "cook" it, before pressing the shoot button to chuck it. This adds a deal of risk to cooking grenades, and makes the process take longer.