Gameplay that makes no sence

[Netrigan]

The only rational explanation for the Mario games is that it's all an opium dream.

Either that or Mario and Bowser are secretly friends and the constant kidnapping of the Princess is all about setting Mario up to be the hero so he can get the girl... but he's so pathetic that he screws up, leading to another kidnapping and the ever growing romance between the Princess and Bowser, who are obviously totally into each other. The princess is insanely powerful but never puts up a fight. I think she's hoping that Mario freak doesn't come along so she can spend more time with her true love.

 

[shadyh8er]

Jumping in the Left 4 Dead games. Have you seen just how high those people go?

EDIT: Also double jumps. How the hell do those work?

At least in Devil May Cry, he creates a magical barrier to jump on. Didn't say it made sense, but at least it was explained.

And those who can't make platforms? My theory is farts. Powerful farts. It explains why there's a puff of smoke in God of War every time you do it.

 

[Velocity Eleven]

I dont think realism or the lack thereof makes much of a difference either way

 

[Phoenixmgs_v1legacy]

I was mainly talking about how health regen is bad for online because if you get hit and not killed as you're running about then you can move around and then engage the player that shot you while being on an equal playing ground when you should be at a health disadvantage because he shot you. I can live with it in single player as Vanquish is the best shooter this gen and it has health regen. Health regen can keep a game moving at a fast pace since you don't have to find medkits or heal.

The problem with 1 button nade tossing in a shooter is that fact that when you throw a nade, you should be in a vulnerable situation while you throw it. It's just that it breaks gameplay, not that it breaks realism. You can literally push the grenade button and be shooting within a second. Every good, balanced game makes you more vulnerable while you are executing a stronger attack than executing a weaker attack. Every fighting game (whether realistic or completely over-the-top) makes heavy attacks more risky than light attacks. In Uncharted 2 online, you can toss a nade just as you are losing the gunfight to kill your opponent when you should've lost because you can throw it while shooting. If you had to switch from your gun to your nades, that wouldn't be possible.

I can kind of see what you're saying there, but there are some other problems.

Let's say the game uses some kind of "health zone" or medkit spawn section. This system is a tad rare, but I've seen it. These places are often camped, because it's incredibly easy. Most of the people coming to them are going to be injured, and potentially low on ammo. Even if they manage to wound the campers, the campers are where the medkits spawn, so it doesn't matter.

Another system is having medics, people that can heal other players. This works okay, accept that to balance medics they're often given shit guns, which makes people not want to play them. If given decent guns, everyone plays them and the rest of the classes get neglected. And then there's the whole "people are dicks, and relying on them is dangerous" factor. Imagine the average Xbox live player. Now imagine relying on them for health. Did anyone else involuntarily shudder? I'm not saying the medic system doesn't work, it just has it's problems.

I think the best non-regeneration way is when people can heal themselves. For example, the health needle in Bad Company 1. It takes a second to pull out, once used it takes a few seconds to fully heal you, and has to regenerate it's healing power. That system worked great, except that only one class had the needle. There were also medics, but most medics were in it for the LMG and didn't heal anybody else.

As for the bit about grenades, I agree with you, actually. I misread your original comment...

The way I think grenades should work (to avoid things like unreliable weapon wheels, etc) is you press the nade button to pull out a grenade, which takes as much time as a weapon switch. You can press the shoot button to just chuck it, or hit another button (say, the reload button) to pull the pin and "cook" it, before pressing the shoot button to chuck it. This adds a deal of risk to cooking grenades, and makes the process take longer.

I'm not a big fan of medkit pickups and weapon pickups in online games, although, it works pretty good in Warhawk.

I really like MAG's use of healing as you can heal yourself when low on health (like Bad Company 1) and when you get killed, a medic can revive you. And, medics don't get shit guns in MAG either; you choose all your equipment based on not going overweight.

In the games that don't have 1 button nade throwing that I know of (Metal Gear Online and MAG), you cycle through your weapons by clicking R2; one click equips whatever you have in slot 2, 2 clicks goes to what's in slot 3 so there's no weapon wheel. Also, your grenade button idea has basically the same effect.

 

[dakorok]

The COD-style health regen is the only aspect that really irritates me, not only because it removes reliance on Medics/ Health powerups, but because it's blindly trying to emulate Halo.

Anything that tries to emulate Halo, in any way, in order to appeal to the frat-boy crowd, pisses me off.

 

[Good morning blues]

Right I thought about this in uncharted 2, it's good game but why does Drake heal in 30 seconds after getting 12 buttles to the chest, without being superhuman or wearing some kind of power armor.
So my question is have you played a game and thought that a part of gameplay that dosen't fit into the story or setting

Getting shot and taking a second to stop the bleeding and clear your mind isn't really any less realistic than getting shot five times, continuing to operate at peak levels, and hoping that you can find a first-aid kit that will allow you to be shot just as many times again with no effect before a sixth consecutive shot finishes you off.

while thats true, the problem isn't that the game is being unrealistic
(its a game after all), it's the fact that having regeneration or that kind of failsafe, for no good reason is immersion breaking; it means being shot has no mental impact on the player,
there's no fear of having low health for extended periods of time because you can just duck and cover til your back to full health. But if you had to scavenge for healing packs to restore your wounds it adds an extra element of suspense to the game.

furthermore regen is for pussies!
your only a man if you can perform meatball surgery on yourself while under fire

I pretty much completely disagree. The sorts of balls-to-the-wall clusterfuck fights that you see in modern Call of Duty games would not have been possible in the original; without a way to heal yourself midway through a fight, each fight has to be smaller and easier, or else nobody would get through it. It also means that you can make it so that the player dies a lot faster, requiring them to plan their attack in a way that's just not necessary when there's a medpack around every corner. I really prefer regenerating health to the old HP-and-medpack system; it allows for a faster-paced game with built-in opportunities to slow down the action for a few seconds when it's getting too crazy.

 

[purf]

Having to play f*cking Pipe Dream every couple of minutes.

Ventilation Shafts. I'm looking at you, Mirror's Edge.

 

[ReservoirAngel]

My only thought with this is "what do NPCs see when your character goes to the Sanctuary" in Fable 3.

 

[SPARTAN-117]

Vehicle sections and boss fights in Gears of War 2. That tank segment is almost impossible on Hardcore mode without playing co-op and having excellent coordination. Also, bossfights in it make no sense because it's a cover-based shooter. It doesn't feel natural. (See: Raam, Skourge and the Giant Locust Sea Monster)

Oh, and I almost forgot the part were you chase Skourge on a bunch of Reapers. That was bullshit. At least killing the mutated Brumak with the Hammer of Dawn prior to that was awesome.

ok so being chased by the leader of a sect of warrior monks in the army of a genocidal subterranean alien species riding a giant flying monster with huge guns strapped to it, while trying to escape on a slightly smaller flying monster with guns strapped to it is bullshit
but flying around in a helicopter using a target locator to fire a sattelite mounted orbital laser at a giant mutated monster, causing it to explode and sinking an entire city into a network of tunnels spanning the entire planet and thus flooding said tunnels is perfectly normal?
how the fuck does ANY of this make sense?

 

[AnAngryMoose]

Vehicle sections and boss fights in Gears of War 2. That tank segment is almost impossible on Hardcore mode without playing co-op and having excellent coordination. Also, bossfights in it make no sense because it's a cover-based shooter. It doesn't feel natural. (See: Raam, Skourge and the Giant Locust Sea Monster)

Oh, and I almost forgot the part were you chase Skourge on a bunch of Reapers. That was bullshit. At least killing the mutated Brumak with the Hammer of Dawn prior to that was awesome.

ok so being chased by the leader of a sect of warrior monks in the army of a genocidal subterranean alien species riding a giant flying monster with huge guns strapped to it, while trying to escape on a slightly smaller flying monster with guns strapped to it is bullshit
but flying around in a helicopter using a target locator to fire a sattelite mounted orbital laser at a giant mutated monster, causing it to explode and sinking an entire city into a network of tunnels spanning the entire planet and thus flooding said tunnels is perfectly normal?
how the fuck does ANY of this make sense?

I never said they made sense as in it being in, or out, of place. It makes no sense from a gameplay standpoint that a cover-based shooter would include boss fights which you would expect to find in a different genre.

 

[kidwithxboxlive]

Jumping in the Left 4 Dead games. Have you seen just how high those people go?

EDIT: Also double jumps. How the hell do those work?

invisible magic jetpacks...nuff said
Dude, flipping in the air activates those packs...

 

[Geo Da Sponge]

Health regen completely breaks online play, and almost always hurts single player as well (I can live with it in single player but prefer not to)...

Pulling grenades and knives out your ass in a seconds notice is straight up bullshit in modern FPSs. It's not realistic and breaks gameplay.

I guess I'll have to disagree. Regenerating health doesn't reward poor play, it encourages exploration, it reduces the effect of cheap AI, it completely negates back-tracking...

And maybe I'm OCD, but seeing my health display at anything other than 100 fills me with intense rage. It's why I always have to reload, I literally can't stand more than a minute of less than a hundred health, it pisses me off so much. If it's regenerating, I don't mind, because I know it's going to get better.

As for the second point...

When I, say, pull something out of my pocket in real life, it takes me a few seconds. Maybe, if I can't find it or have a lot of stuff in there, even a minute. Throughout this time, I'm not bored, because my hands and mind are busy, I'm doing something.

When a video-game character, and not me, takes thirty seconds to holster his current weapon, draw a second one, turn off the safety, pull back the slide, and finally aim, I'm not doing anything. I hit a button, and I'm now waiting on that character to complete an action. I was having fun prior to switching weapons, and I now I will have fun afterward. The entire time in between is deliberately an un-fun zone, and, in my opinion, should be kept at a minimum. Four or five seconds, tops.

And drawing a knife doesn't take that long. I mean, longer than in a game, but still not very long. Realism is important, but in patently unrealistic things, it shouldn't be used as a critique. If you were complaining about lack or realism in, say, ARMA, then I would agree. Realism is the whole point. In most modern FPSs? The point is a few minor elements of realism, mixed in with more Michael Bay elements. Complaining about lack of realism there is like complaining about the lack of action scenes in The Office. It's not the point.

I was mainly talking about how health regen is bad for online because if you get hit and not killed as you're running about then you can move around and then engage the player that shot you while being on an equal playing ground when you should be at a health disadvantage because he shot you.

Where as in multiplayer games with a health meter (eg. TF2) I can just run round a corner and pick up a medkit, possibly healing me completely instantly. I can even do this while in combat, even by accident. But in a game with regenerating health if someone evades you for long enough for their health to regenerate then they've probably escaped you anyway. And even then, your health will have regenerated too, so it's not like they have an unfair advantage.

I can live with it in single player as Vanquish is the best shooter this gen and it has health regen. Health regen can keep a game moving at a fast pace since you don't have to find medkits or heal.

Same logic goes for multiplayer games.

The problem with 1 button nade tossing in a shooter is that fact that when you throw a nade, you should be in a vulnerable situation while you throw it. It's just that it breaks gameplay, not that it breaks realism. You can literally push the grenade button and be shooting within a second. Every good, balanced game makes you more vulnerable while you are executing a stronger attack than executing a weaker attack. Every fighting game (whether realistic or completely over-the-top) makes heavy attacks more risky than light attacks. In Uncharted 2 online, you can toss a nade just as you are losing the gunfight to kill your opponent when you should've lost because you can throw it while shooting. If you had to switch from your gun to your nades, that wouldn't be possible.

Yes, but in order for the grenade to be effective face to face you'd have to cook it before throwing it, which would take 3-4 seconds longer and would make you very vulnerable. Or at least, that's how it is implemented in well balanced games. And I've never seen a game developer purposefully make it more complicated to switch weapons in the name of balance. Switching to grenades in games where they're a seperate weapon is never harder than tapping 'Q' or one of the number keys.

 

[shado_temple]

While games today could certainly be made to be more realistic, do we truly want them to be?

<youtube=DMb0ZP6hnkc>

 

[Phoenixmgs_v1legacy]

Where as in multiplayer games with a health meter (eg. TF2) I can just run round a corner and pick up a medkit, possibly healing me completely instantly. I can even do this while in combat, even by accident. But in a game with regenerating health if someone evades you for long enough for their health to regenerate then they've probably escaped you anyway. And even then, your health will have regenerated too, so it's not like they have an unfair advantage.

I don't like health pickups or weapon pickups in online games either but pickups can work in some games as it works in Warhawk decently (but not great) and I would think TF2 as well since it seems like a good game from what I've heard and read about it. Health systems like Metal Gear Online and MAG are how it should be done IMO.

I can live with it in single player as Vanquish is the best shooter this gen and it has health regen. Health regen can keep a game moving at a fast pace since you don't have to find medkits or heal.

Same logic goes for multiplayer games.

No it doesn't. It's acceptable to use health regen to keep the pacing of a single player experience because the devs are creating a very specific experience for the player whereas online the players are creating the experience. It's just lazy for the devs to use health regen to try to make their competitive multiplayer to have a certain pacing to it.

The problem with 1 button nade tossing in a shooter is that fact that when you throw a nade, you should be in a vulnerable situation while you throw it. It's just that it breaks gameplay, not that it breaks realism. You can literally push the grenade button and be shooting within a second. Every good, balanced game makes you more vulnerable while you are executing a stronger attack than executing a weaker attack. Every fighting game (whether realistic or completely over-the-top) makes heavy attacks more risky than light attacks. In Uncharted 2 online, you can toss a nade just as you are losing the gunfight to kill your opponent when you should've lost because you can throw it while shooting. If you had to switch from your gun to your nades, that wouldn't be possible.

Yes, but in order for the grenade to be effective face to face you'd have to cook it before throwing it, which would take 3-4 seconds longer and would make you very vulnerable. Or at least, that's how it is implemented in well balanced games. And I've never seen a game developer purposefully make it more complicated to switch weapons in the name of balance. Switching to grenades in games where they're a seperate weapon is never harder than tapping 'Q' or one of the number keys.

Not every game allows for cooking grenades. And, not having a button for grenades, not having a button to switch to your secondary, and not having a button to knife frees up more buttons on the controller to implement other gameplay mechanics. Why use 3 buttons for those things when you just need to use 1 button?

 

[Netrigan]

As a single player, I like the grenade button. Until the grenade button, I always found grenades to be a bit on the useless side. Being a situational weapon, it's really not worth switching to it, throwing it, then switching back. Anything that makes the interface easier to use is a good thing in my book.

But I wouldn't have a problem if they added a reasonably lengthy animation to it, so you are vulnerable while you're tossing the grenade. Lower your weapon, toss it, raise the weapon again. A lot of games just seem to have you magically shoot grenades out of your chest.

 

[SPARTAN-117]

Vehicle sections and boss fights in Gears of War 2. That tank segment is almost impossible on Hardcore mode without playing co-op and having excellent coordination. Also, bossfights in it make no sense because it's a cover-based shooter. It doesn't feel natural. (See: Raam, Skourge and the Giant Locust Sea Monster)

Oh, and I almost forgot the part were you chase Skourge on a bunch of Reapers. That was bullshit. At least killing the mutated Brumak with the Hammer of Dawn prior to that was awesome.

ok so being chased by the leader of a sect of warrior monks in the army of a genocidal subterranean alien species riding a giant flying monster with huge guns strapped to it, while trying to escape on a slightly smaller flying monster with guns strapped to it is bullshit
but flying around in a helicopter using a target locator to fire a sattelite mounted orbital laser at a giant mutated monster, causing it to explode and sinking an entire city into a network of tunnels spanning the entire planet and thus flooding said tunnels is perfectly normal?
how the fuck does ANY of this make sense?

I never said they made sense as in it being in, or out, of place. It makes no sense from a gameplay standpoint that a cover-based shooter would include boss fights which you would expect to find in a different genre.

meh i cant complain about epic trying to inject some variety into a game where you spend most of your time popping in and out from behind chest high walls and shooting stuff

 

[AnAngryMoose]

Vehicle sections and boss fights in Gears of War 2. That tank segment is almost impossible on Hardcore mode without playing co-op and having excellent coordination. Also, bossfights in it make no sense because it's a cover-based shooter. It doesn't feel natural. (See: Raam, Skourge and the Giant Locust Sea Monster)

Oh, and I almost forgot the part were you chase Skourge on a bunch of Reapers. That was bullshit. At least killing the mutated Brumak with the Hammer of Dawn prior to that was awesome.

ok so being chased by the leader of a sect of warrior monks in the army of a genocidal subterranean alien species riding a giant flying monster with huge guns strapped to it, while trying to escape on a slightly smaller flying monster with guns strapped to it is bullshit
but flying around in a helicopter using a target locator to fire a sattelite mounted orbital laser at a giant mutated monster, causing it to explode and sinking an entire city into a network of tunnels spanning the entire planet and thus flooding said tunnels is perfectly normal?
how the fuck does ANY of this make sense?

I never said they made sense as in it being in, or out, of place. It makes no sense from a gameplay standpoint that a cover-based shooter would include boss fights which you would expect to find in a different genre.

meh i cant complain about epic trying to inject some variety into a game where you spend most of your time popping in and out from behind chest high walls and shooting stuff

I do agree that the innovation was nice and I absolutely loved the concept, it just doesn't feel right. Like I loved the with sea monster right until you have to throw grenades into it's mouth. I also didn't mind the fight with Skourge. It was pretty cool, but repetitive.