"Games are a luxury item." So?

[Owyn_Merrilin]

same old shit

When your ideology is embraced by the world, I think I'll start caring then. Till then, you're just another replaceable consumer who's sadly under the impression that he/she is somehow a crusader against "the evil corporations".

Enjoy your piracy, since it is of course wholly acceptable to you.

The number of people out there pirating music, movies, and software would suggest that LilithSlave's ideology actually is supported by the world at large. I don't think I know a single person in real life who /doesn't/ at the very least download the occasional song or movie.

 

[mjcabooseblu]

same horseshit as every other filthy pirate

Reading that gave me an actual headache, just because of how much it actually sounds like you believe the senseless tripe you're spewing from your festering word-hole. Your apparent dedication to your ridiculous beliefs it honestly frightening, because it is telling of your blatant disregard for the system that allows you to live as well as you do. It's almost Nixonesque in its childishness.

Hm. Actually, if I hold you to your belief that anyone has any right to any information presented to them...

This sort of reasoning is so idiotic.

It is wholly...idiotic...circular logic.

I don't understand how you don't warnings for basically promoting piracy.

They can ban...the topic of piracy...a difference of opinion may not be allowed to exist. They have taken the opportunity to warn me...that high piracy rates...decrease sales. I'd rather...spread ignorance.

I get the idea of paying for something to compensate someone who created it is a concept that is completely beyond you, but seriously?

That's...perspective...of another.

Fuck. I tried, guys, but I honestly couldn't make it through quote mining that whole post. If you can finish my work, you are a greater man than I.

 

[StriderShinryu]

same old shit

When your ideology is embraced by the world, I think I'll start caring then. Till then, you're just another replaceable consumer who's sadly under the impression that he/she is somehow a crusader against "the evil corporations".

Enjoy your piracy, since it is of course wholly acceptable to you.

The number of people out there pirating music, movies, and software would suggest that LilithSlave's ideology actually is supported by the world at large. I don't think I know a single person in real life who /doesn't/ at the very least download the occasional song or movie.

I think the difference lies in that LilithSlave actually has an ideology. Agree or not, there is thought and purpose behind that approach to piracy. I don't think it's fair to say that her ideology is shared by the world at large because, quite frankly, the world at large hasn't thought about it anywhere near as much. I'd wager that the world at large, especially in the case of those who do just "download the occasional song or movie," doesn't consider anything more than "Ooh, free stuff is cheaper than not free stuff." It's not a philosophy revolving around changing how the global economy works.. it's about getting something for free instead of paying for it.

 

[LilithSlave]

Reading that gave me an actual headache

Then please, take a break from the internet. You shouldn't be here if you get so bothered about something said here.

just because of how much it actually sounds like you believe the senseless tripe you're spewing from your festering word-hole.

I like how you don't have an other argument than to be rude.

Have any real arguments to go along your senseless anti-piracy tirade? Or just calling someone a "filthy pirate"?

Edit: I take back some of what I said about the issue of rudeness and warning. I'm glad I wasn't the only one warned this time. Thank you, Escapist moderators. I appreciate that.

 

[Owyn_Merrilin]

Reading that gave me an actual headache

Then please, take a break from the internet. You shouldn't be here if you get so bothered about something said here.

just because of how much it actually sounds like you believe the senseless tripe you're spewing from your festering word-hole.

I like how you don't have an other argument than to be rude.

Have any real arguments to go along your senseless anti-piracy tirade? Or just calling someone a "filthy pirate"?

Edit: I take back some of what I said about the issue of rudeness and warning. I'm glad I wasn't the only one warned this time. Thank you, Escapist moderators. I appreciate that.

Here is all the argument necessary: piracy is illegal, and you will never convince those that uphold the law that it is anything but a crime. You can have your own alien morality wherein you believe that breaking the law is perfectly acceptable if it's inconvenient to obey it--however, in doing so, you are a criminal. Understand this: piracy is a crime, and admitting to piracy is an open confession of being a criminal. Defending piracy is defending criminal activity. Whether or not you agree with the law, it's there, and it's not going to change. You can try to fight it, but at the end of the day the only support you have is from other filthy, filthy pirates. And yes, I think I've earned the right to call you filthy, much like I'd call someone who robs a convenience store a dirty thief, or someone who embezzles money a fraudulent swine. Though I have confidence that you won't let go of your ridiculous notion that someday the world will change just for you, and all this really is is a long winded description of how much I absolutely loathe the mindset and culture of the pirate.

Is the law enough of an argument for you, ************?

Here's the problem: the law is not the same thing as morality. There's plenty of laws that are immoral to break, but there have also been a significant number throughout history that have been immoral to uphold. Copyright law in its current state is one of the latter, thanks to the efforts of big content companies to take it from an extremely short lived monopoly which helps to encourage innovation by giving people a brief window to profit on their work, after which A.) they need to make something new to keep the money coming in, and B.) other people can take it, tinker with it, and make something new out of it, to what it currently is -- a perpetual, anti-creative, anti-capitalist monopoly. IP law in its current state is one of the worst things still on the books.

 

[Moriim]

Reading that gave me an actual headache

Then please, take a break from the internet. You shouldn't be here if you get so bothered about something said here.

just because of how much it actually sounds like you believe the senseless tripe you're spewing from your festering word-hole.

I like how you don't have an other argument than to be rude.

Have any real arguments to go along your senseless anti-piracy tirade? Or just calling someone a "filthy pirate"?

Edit: I take back some of what I said about the issue of rudeness and warning. I'm glad I wasn't the only one warned this time. Thank you, Escapist moderators. I appreciate that.

Not sure if this has been said before, since I CBF reading all nine pages, but here's the scenario for you.

Piracy is only possible because of people who purchase the game. It's pretty much just that cut and dry, if everyone pirated software nobody would make any, because well, if people keep stealing your shit why make any? So at what point do you decide that you are more important than other people such that you deserve to not support the developer, publisher, and/or distributor while also still enjoying the benefits of the product?

The only situation where piracy can be considered even remotely justifiable is if you are literally financially incapable of purchasing the game without running into budgeting issues. The issue therein is that I can almost guarantee at least 99% of pirates do not fit into this category. In fact, I'd be willing to bet that the majority of pirates are minors who are dependent on their parent's income for their game consumption.

Completely disregarding issues of morality, pirating is not in your best interest because supporting a game through sales says to publishers: "Hey! I like this product enough to spend money on it, and will likely spend money on similar products!", while pirating says "Fuck you your product isn't worth my money." Which one of those do you think is going to result in more games that you like?

 

[mjcabooseblu]

Reading that gave me an actual headache

Then please, take a break from the internet. You shouldn't be here if you get so bothered about something said here.

just because of how much it actually sounds like you believe the senseless tripe you're spewing from your festering word-hole.

I like how you don't have an other argument than to be rude.

Have any real arguments to go along your senseless anti-piracy tirade? Or just calling someone a "filthy pirate"?

Edit: I take back some of what I said about the issue of rudeness and warning. I'm glad I wasn't the only one warned this time. Thank you, Escapist moderators. I appreciate that.

Here is all the argument necessary: piracy is illegal, and you will never convince those that uphold the law that it is anything but a crime. You can have your own alien morality wherein you believe that breaking the law is perfectly acceptable if it's inconvenient to obey it--however, in doing so, you are a criminal. Understand this: piracy is a crime, and admitting to piracy is an open confession of being a criminal. Defending piracy is defending criminal activity. Whether or not you agree with the law, it's there, and it's not going to change. You can try to fight it, but at the end of the day the only support you have is from other filthy, filthy pirates. And yes, I think I've earned the right to call you filthy, much like I'd call someone who robs a convenience store a dirty thief, or someone who embezzles money a fraudulent swine. Though I have confidence that you won't let go of your ridiculous notion that someday the world will change just for you, and all this really is is a long winded description of how much I absolutely loathe the mindset and culture of the pirate.

Is the law enough of an argument for you, ************?

Here's the problem: the law is not the same thing as morality. There's plenty of laws that are immoral to break, but there have also been a significant number throughout history that have been immoral to uphold. Copyright law in its current state is one of the latter, thanks to the efforts of big content companies to take it from an extremely short lived monopoly which helps to encourage innovation by giving people a brief window to profit on their work, after which A.) they need to make something new to keep the money coming in, and B.) other people can take it, tinker with it, and make something new out of it, to what it currently is -- a perpetual, anti-creative, anti-capitalist monopoly. IP law in its current state is one of the worst things still on the books.

If a law is immoral, you don't subvert it. You fix it, Nixon. Piracy fixes nothing.

 

[LilithSlave]

piracy is illegal

So what? The law is often wrong, immoral, and stupid.

There's hardly anything more morally unsound than supporting the law just because it is the law. There is not one country on this planet in which the laws are not morally corrupt in some fashion.

Though I appear to have been ninja'd. I appreciate that.

 

[mjcabooseblu]

piracy is illegal

So what? The law is often wrong, immoral, and stupid.

I feel like a great man once sad something about this...no, wait. It was me. Directly above your post.

If a law is immoral, you don't subvert it. You fix it, Nixon. Piracy fixes nothing.

 

[General Twinkletoes]

less than 1 hour of gameplay per $5 I spent -> Really not worth it, get my money back
less than 3 hrs per $5 spent -> Not worth it, but I won't be demanding compensation
less than 5 hrs per $5 spent -> The game wasted enough time for what I paid for it
less than 8 hrs per $5 spent -> The game was definitely worth it's price tag
more than 10 hrs per $5 spent -> I got an amazing deal on this game

You judge the value of a product based on how much of your time it "wasted?" Maybe try looking at from the perspective of "How much did I enjoy this product?"

This mentality some people have of time spent equaling worth really pisses me off.

Don't be stupid, they go hand in hand, of course whether or not I enjoyed it factors in too. I'm not gonna play a game for 60 hours if I don't enjoy playing it.

What about some really short games that are amazing? Like journy?

That's 1 1/2 hours - 2 hours, but completely worth it.

 

[MiriaJiyuu]

less than 1 hour of gameplay per $5 I spent -> Really not worth it, get my money back
less than 3 hrs per $5 spent -> Not worth it, but I won't be demanding compensation
less than 5 hrs per $5 spent -> The game wasted enough time for what I paid for it
less than 8 hrs per $5 spent -> The game was definitely worth it's price tag
more than 10 hrs per $5 spent -> I got an amazing deal on this game

You judge the value of a product based on how much of your time it "wasted?" Maybe try looking at from the perspective of "How much did I enjoy this product?"

This mentality some people have of time spent equaling worth really pisses me off.

Don't be stupid, they go hand in hand, of course whether or not I enjoyed it factors in too. I'm not gonna play a game for 60 hours if I don't enjoy playing it.

What about some really short games that are amazing? Like journy?

That's 1 1/2 hours - 2 hours, but completely worth it.

Like I said, the amount of enjoyment factors in as well, there are obviously games that do not fit.

That said it's also a measure of how much time I've spent playing it overall, not just a single play-though. If I enjoy a game, I'll probably play through it more than once, thus increasing how much time I've spent playing it. Examples:

-24 recorded hours of Portal 2 play time, it take me 4 hours per play-through.
-I've played Saints Row The Third for almost 150 hours
-Splinter Cell Conviction for almost 225
-Prototype is almost at 100 hours
-Sonic Generations is at almost 60
-H.A.W.X. 2 ->75 Hours
-Assassins Creed II -> 73 hours

I GUARANTEE, the story-line's are not that long. I've simply played them for that long collecting things, earning achievements, playing with a friend or just simply wandering around looking at things in the game I find interesting. These are all games I payed less than 30 dollars on, thoroughly enjoyed them and consider them to be games that my money was well spent on.

When I put up that measurement it wasn't about how long the storyline was, it was about how long I could spend playing the game until I got bored with it. If I payed $60 for a game and only spent 2 hours playing it, to me it probably is not worth the amount I payed for it. I I paid $10 for a game and spent 100 hours playing it like I did with Prototype, then it was worth it.

Also because it bugged me the whole time I spent typing this, you forgot the 'e' in journey.

 

[Kotep]

Games can be overpriced, but the point that they're a luxury isn't that they can't be overpriced, it's that if they're overpriced, you have absolutely no pressure to buy them. If food is overpriced, that's like, you know, an actual problem, because you need to eat food.

If a game is too expensive, you don't have to have it. It's not your personal right to be entertained whenever you want.

 

[ResonanceSD]

Reading that gave me an actual headache

Then please, take a break from the internet. You shouldn't be here if you get so bothered about something said here.

just because of how much it actually sounds like you believe the senseless tripe you're spewing from your festering word-hole.

I like how you don't have an other argument than to be rude.

Have any real arguments to go along your senseless anti-piracy tirade? Or just calling someone a "filthy pirate"?

Edit: I take back some of what I said about the issue of rudeness and warning. I'm glad I wasn't the only one warned this time. Thank you, Escapist moderators. I appreciate that.

Here is all the argument necessary: piracy is illegal, and you will never convince those that uphold the law that it is anything but a crime. You can have your own alien morality wherein you believe that breaking the law is perfectly acceptable if it's inconvenient to obey it--however, in doing so, you are a criminal. Understand this: piracy is a crime, and admitting to piracy is an open confession of being a criminal. Defending piracy is defending criminal activity. Whether or not you agree with the law, it's there, and it's not going to change. You can try to fight it, but at the end of the day the only support you have is from other filthy, filthy pirates. And yes, I think I've earned the right to call you filthy, much like I'd call someone who robs a convenience store a dirty thief, or someone who embezzles money a fraudulent swine. Though I have confidence that you won't let go of your ridiculous notion that someday the world will change just for you, and all this really is is a long winded description of how much I absolutely loathe the mindset and culture of the pirate.

Is the law enough of an argument for you, ************?

Sir, you are now my hero. I'm printing your post off right now.

 

[Owyn_Merrilin]

If a law is immoral, you don't subvert it. You fix it, Nixon. Piracy fixes nothing.

Subverting it is often the first step toward fixing it, Judge Dredd. Ever hear of the civil rights movement? Part of the goal was to make breaking the Jim Crow laws so common that they either wouldn't or couldn't be enforced any more. I mean, what do you expect the average person to do, run for congress?

 

[mjcabooseblu]

If a law is immoral, you don't subvert it. You fix it, Nixon. Piracy fixes nothing.

Subverting it is often the first step toward fixing it, Judge Dredd. Ever hear of the civil rights movement? Part of the goal was to make breaking the Jim Crow laws so common that they either wouldn't or couldn't be enforced any more. I mean, what do you expect the average person to do, run for congress?

Just...just so this is clear.

You are comparing people fighting for internet piracy to the civil rights movement.

Holy shit. The two situations are nothing alike. Members of the civil rights movement were publicly protesting the laws by breaking them--laws, I might add, that were in direct contradiction of the fourteenth amendment. They weren't breaking the laws merely for their own gain, they were breaking them because the system needed changing. Ergo, they were fixing it. The pirates, on the other hand, are breaking the laws purely for personal reasons. They don't care about how the system works, nor is the system oppressing them--the system is in place so jackasses like them can't fuck over the hard working people that produce our music, games, and movies. Those that actually believe that they're making the system better for the creators clearly don't understand capitalism, nor have they ever created something worth protecting. Even worse are those who argue that nobody should have the right to their own intellectual property.

Honestly, what worries me most is that all those that claim that they're trying to make the system better for those who produce entertaining content could actually believe what they're saying; it would show that our educational system has failed to teach these children even the most basic things about how capitalism works, and how most humans are greedy scumbags. But hey, at least we can find the area under a parabola.

 

[Owyn_Merrilin]

the system is in place so jackasses like them can't fuck over the hard working people that produce our music, games, and movies.

Wrong, wrong, wrong. The system in place before 1978 was like that. Disney Corporation's lobbyists put an end to that. Right now it's in place so rich jackasses can fuck over the public domain, and keep a perpetual monopoly on something they never had any right to have a perpetual monopoly to. It's not in violation of an amendment because the right in question is spelled out in the constitution itself.

 

[Kotep]

The system in place before the Copyright Act of 1976 also said that unless you actually published a work AND had a notice of copyright on it, the work became public domain property. The same laws that let corporations 'fuck over the public domain' also allows authors and artists to make money off of their work so that they can be rewarded for the time it takes to learn to write well or draw or program or whatever thing it is they want to sell.

If you really want to stick it to some publisher, you know what's far, far worse than pirating a game?

Don't pirate it. Don't play it. Don't talk about it. Don't give a shit about it.

That's seriously the worst thing you can do to someone's work. They made it to make people care about it. If you go and pirate it, obviously you care about it, but there were economic issues in the way. But if you didn't pirate it, you didn't care about it.

 

[Owyn_Merrilin]

The system in place before the Copyright Act of 1976 also said that unless you actually published a work AND had a notice of copyright on it, the work became public domain property. The same laws that let corporations 'fuck over the public domain' also allows authors and artists to make money off of their work so that they can be rewarded for the time it takes to learn to write well or draw or program or whatever thing it is they want to sell.

And what is wrong with requiring people to take some minimal steps to protect their work? Today you actually can't release a work into the public domain if you want to -- and there are, believe it or not, plenty of people who want to do that sort of thing. Back then it was as simple as releasing it without registering it. Artists and authors could make /plenty/ of money off their work in the time allotted. Prior to the copyright act of 1976 (which didn't take effect until 1978), copyright was good for two terms of 28 years a piece. That gives you 56 years of monopoly on your work, plenty of time to make a profit. The original law was two terms of 14 years, or 28 years total if you renewed it. The current law lasts for the author's entire life plus 70 years after they die, and it stands exclusively to allow corporations that buy up people's copyrights to profit on them after they're dead. This isn't protecting the widows and the children. This is all big business.

 

[StriderShinryu]

If you really want to stick it to some publisher, you know what's far, far worse than pirating a game?

Don't pirate it. Don't play it. Don't talk about it. Don't give a shit about it.

That's seriously the worst thing you can do to someone's work. They made it to make people care about it. If you go and pirate it, obviously you care about it, but there were economic issues in the way. But if you didn't pirate it, you didn't care about it.

Bingo.

When a game gets pirated, the people who created said game see one thing; that they made a product you cared about enough to actually do something that is largely considered illegal to get it. Sure they will be irked that you didn't pay for it but they still know how badly you had to have it. Checcking out torrent sites and seeing hundreds of thousands of seeds is not something that deters them, it's something that drives them to find new ways to hook you even deeper than you've already been hooked.

If you really want to protest the way companies bring their games to market or the policies set in place before the market is even reached, you have to actually take a real stand. Don't play the game. At all. If you feel you have an important position of belief backing your stance, make it loud and clear what that stance is, but then don't turn around and play it anyway.

 

[mjcabooseblu]

the system is in place so jackasses like them can't fuck over the hard working people that produce our music, games, and movies.

Wrong, wrong, wrong. The system in place before 1978 was like that. Disney Corporation's lobbyists put an end to that. Right now it's in place so rich jackasses can fuck over the public domain, and keep a perpetual monopoly on something they never had any right to have a perpetual monopoly to. It's not in violation of an amendment because the right in question is spelled out in the constitution itself.

You are being infuriatingly nonspecific in your arguments. Please, for the love of fuck, add something meaningful to your post so I actually have something to reply to.