Games that have lost their way

Soxafloppin

Coxa no longer floppin'
Jun 22, 2009
7,918
0
0
Well Assassins Creed has become less about stabbing people and more about chasing pigs around to get them into a pen, sending convoys to make money and of course being a naval captain!

The Castlevania: Lords of Shadows games also stray from the originals a lot, but I loved the first one so much and I'm looking forward to the second too, I find it hard to criticize.
 

dmv

New member
Jan 19, 2013
70
0
0
rhizhim said:
so you enjoyed it because you cheated.
not a good argument...
I didn't really say that I enjoyed the game. It was a bad game, with a bad story and some interesting weapons. Enjoying oneself for a half an hour firing a laser from a unicorns anus doesn't mean I enjoyed the game itself. Just some cheap fun that partially redeemed itself, hence why I can't hate it.
 

Shoggoth2588

New member
Aug 31, 2009
10,250
0
0
Rawne1980 said:
Dragon Age. Another one that started off well but became something less than it was.
I kind of filed this away mentally but I agree completely. I ended up grabbing the ultimate edition of Origins and really, any of (or perhaps an amalgamation of) the DLC quests that spun off from the first game would have made for a better sequel than what ended up being shat out. I don't mind the game centering around Kirkwall and the surrounding area but it would have been far more interesting to play as a Dwarven or, Elven refugee; not just a human of questionable skill and gender.

---

On the other side of the spectrum, Castlevania has definitely strayed from what it once was and it was better off for it. Castlevania was originally a linear action-platformer after all, up until about Symphony of the Night (and those two unspeakable N64 games) when Castlevania respectively took some notes from Metroid from the former and, shat itself inside-out as the later. The thing is Symphony of the Night and, Aria of Sorrow, are my favorite titles in the series. The last time Castlevania went back to a more linear format (like the original title) it turned out to be...well, pretty terrible (though not bad enough to stop more Lord of Shadows from spawning). It looks like Lord of Shadows on the 3DS is going to go back to the Metroidvania style which makes me very hopeful that it will be worth playing because I had more fun with Simon's Quest than I did with Lord of Shadows.
 

Varrdy

New member
Feb 25, 2010
875
0
0
StormwaveUK said:
Just out of curiosity, what games to people believe have lost their way from their original intended audience?

In my opinion, some of the biggest culprits are:

Mass Effect (went from RPG to action)
To me, Mass Effect was always an action-RPG. While I do agree that more emphasis has been placed on shooting stuff rather than puzzles and roleplaying but, come ME3, a full-on Galactic War happens, which will always require weaponry. Yes you can talk the Geth and the Quarians to pack it in but that's not really going to work with the Reapers. Trying to reason with Reapers is like trying to reason with a devout religious person - it's a pointless exercise in futility - so you are going to need to shoot them. I noticed the lack of dialogue options in ME3 and, while the response "In war, there really aren't many grey areas." was reasonable, it also smacked of making excuses.

However the addition of "modes" irked me and neatly proves your point that, for the sake of gameplay and final polishing, it has been made to appeal to all comers and their lovely money.

At least for ME3 they beefed up the combat system so it flows better. ME1's combat was like Fallout 3 / Fallout: New Vegas' combat but with a half-arsed cover system and ME2's combat system was designed by someone with a fetish for sticking himself to walls with Araldite. At least with ME3 they made an effort - if they are going to place emphasis on action then they might as well try and get it right.

If I were to say how Mass Effect has lost it's way, it is not so much the swing towards shooting as the swing away from "traditional" RPG elements. In ME1, there was a lot of shooting but we also had the Mako and the planet exploration, which I liked. If you wanted the good shit, you had to earn it by putting in the work to earn them or the money to buy them. Sometimes the item you just scavenged and pawned half the guns in the Galaxy for was not in stock - well that's life! It happens and if they just dumped all the good shit on you right away then the game would be tediously easy. That said, the inventory system was a bit of a pain but at least you couldn't fill it with random crap like teddy-bears and spoons.

ME2 cut the inventory system and weapon mechanics right down to the bone and then threw all the challenging puzzles in the bin. Some hailed it as a relief but to me it was overkill. Yes by cutting down on the faffing around and selling half a million unwanted guns after each mission was all well and good but what's the point of doing that and then giving us that woefully boring planet-scanning mini-game? Yes the Mako could be a bit of a bugger to drive sometimes but it could also be insane amounts of fun when you got the hang of it. The only thing I had to get the hang of when plannet-scanning was making sure I didn't fall asleep - there was absolutely no challenge at all! Still, when you're trying to get as many people as possible to give you their money, who cares, right?

Also, why was access to the Citadel so limited in ME2? In ME1 we had a good slice of one of the Wards, C-Sec and The Presidium. In ME2 we got part of another Ward, which was fine, and a balcony on The Presidium - woo. Omega was pretty good but also very limited and so was Tuchanka. Also the stock didn't rotate / replenish, thus killing the need for exploration / repeated visits...because that stuff bores non-RPG fans and they will not give you their money again if they are bored!

The Paragon / Renegade interrupts were a fun addition, though!

ME3 sought to redress the balance a little bit with the better weapon-mod system and making the alternative armours for your crewmates have different bonuses and attributes. They also got rid of resource-mining, which was fine with me, but why leave in the planet-scanning mechanic for artefact / salvage operations? There's no point to it at all now! I like how you have to be careful when activating your scanner or the Reapers will come and see what's making all that noise, that is good, but why do they then utterly ignore you when you start to scan the planet for the artefact once you've identified which one it's on? It takes away all the urgency and renders it all pointless. How about they take a leaf from a great old game called Nomad in where you drop the probe and have to wait while it does it's thing. You can either leave it and come back later or wait, which would be dull but you can always upgrade them to make them faster / more efficient and, if the Reapers are around, waiting could be a tense affair if you didn't wimp out and run away!

Another utterly incomrehensible decision was to break the journal. It worked just fine for 2 games so why break it to the point to becomes useless to ME veterans and newbies alike? It says a lot when I have to have a pad of paper and a pen handy to track my mission progress in ME3!

They also binned all of the hubs, bar the Citadel. You'd think that in a war, there would be more need for them than ever! I'm not saying that they should be available from the get-go but the chance to unlock them would be nice! After you sort out the shroud on Tuchanka, why not have that open up as a hub? As the game shows, there are places the Reapers haven't touched or ignore that could be utilised as "secret" hubs or safe-zones. It's all very well cutting all this out to appeal to a broader audience but in breaking the side-quests and journal mechanics so comprehensively, all they did was get on everyone's nerves!

I still enjoy the games and each one has it's own reasons that make me want to play it again but, like many, it seems that more emphasis has been placed on a wider market than crossing the t's and dotting the i's. I'm not talking about the ending, although that was pretty bad, but there are other, more subtle things that irk me, most of which I have already mentioned.

Here's hoping that the proposed Mass Effect 4 returns to it's roots.
 

dmv

New member
Jan 19, 2013
70
0
0
rhizhim said:
dmv said:
rhizhim said:
so you enjoyed it because you cheated.
not a good argument...
I didn't really say that I enjoyed the game. It was a bad game, with a bad story and some interesting weapons. Enjoying oneself for a half an hour firing a laser from a unicorns anus doesn't mean I enjoyed the game itself. Just some cheap fun that partially redeemed itself, hence why I can't hate it.
but still, the only small percentage that makes you not be dissapointed with it (not hate it) came due you firing up some cheats and squeeze the small things that would get a small smirk on your face if it would have been in any game regardeless.

red faction was literally going down (in quality)
No, the satisfaction came from a developer taking the time to put something utterly ridiculous into a game that had a pretty serious tone. Done for the sake of fun I might add. Mr Toots is a weapon I won't forget for a good while, I'd like to see more ridiculous weapons designed for either a laugh or just to be generally fun more often.
 

MightyRabbit

New member
Feb 16, 2011
219
0
0
I disagree with you about Fallout. Fallout 3 did a very poor job of capturing what made Fallout... Fallout. Even by your criteria... it threw a lot of the world-building and lore under the bus, or just retreaded it in a wholly underwhelming manner. But then Obsidian came and went "No, no, no... if you want to do a first-person, real-time Fallout, it's supposed to be like this". They even made it infuriatingly buggy, just like Fallout 2!
I can totally see that. Fallout 3's pretty iffy like that, but to me it had enough retro 50's vibe and sense of desolation to remind me a lot of Fallout 1, whereas New Vegas reminded me way more of Fallout 2. I share some of the complaints about how different Fallout 3's tone is (and stuff like the new FEV, which don't fit well with established lore), but at the end of the day the idea of having an entire world devastated by nuclear war allows me to accept that games and DLCs can have a range of tones, themes and content. If they announced a DLC for Deus EX: Human Revolution that was set in a creepy swamp full of hillbillies I'd take umbridge with that, but with a world as big and varied as Fallout I buy that Point Lookout, Rivet City, Caesar's Legion, the Enclave, Primm and New Reno can all coexist in the same world.
 

CrimsonBlaze

New member
Aug 29, 2011
2,252
0
0
TheSteeleStrap said:
I'd say the Sonic series can safely be added to the list.
More or less, but not entirely.

The biggest factor was Sonic's speed and having to translate that from a 2D platform to a 3D plane. Sonic Adventure introduced Sonic's speed with 3D platforming. It was good; however, there were a few tweaks that needed to be fixed (i.e. finding a way to make Sonic accelerate without loosing control and having some shorthanded invincibility like the Spin Dash). Modern Sonic has had his share of bad games developed with terrible mechanics and ideas (i.e. Sonic '06, Sonic Unleashed's Nighttime stages, The Storybook Games, etc.), but many of the handhelds incorporate the classic Sonic 2D feel while tweaking the mechanics slightly to deliver a familiar experience while feeling fresh at the same time.

Sonic Generations has proven that they can get 2D and 3D done right, and hopefully the next title will deliver a similar experience while incorporating something new and not broken.
 

KissmahArceus

New member
Mar 1, 2011
187
0
0
Adam Jensen said:
Splinter Cell. But I guess we should wait to see what Blacklist has in store. Conviction was a disaster.
I still find it funny that Conviction was the ONLY Splinter Cell game I have enjoyed, I get why fans of traditional Splinter Cell weren't fans of Conviction and missed what had been sacrificed (disposing of bodies for instance, cut to get the game out on time) but I enjoyed what it did and I think what it did do, it did well. It was a fast paced stealth game, more of a hunter stealth game.

I hope Blacklist makes both sets of fans happy, I hope Blacklist has the depth of the old games without the crazy redundant maneuvers and unintuitive (is it even a word?) controls and I hope it retains Conviction style of fast paced play (if you want it) and intuitive controls.

Anyway, OT I feel Final Fantasy has to be my pick.

Since 11/12 the series has been in decline and I was insulted by 13 on many levels but especially characters. FF has not had great or even good characters (or at least that appeal to me in a meaningful way) since 10
 

KissmahArceus

New member
Mar 1, 2011
187
0
0
Oh yeah and Lost Planet... Man I was such a fan of LP1, but Lost Planet 2 just killed the franchise for me, it's horrible attempts at co op, the stupid lobby, the dumb slot machine to upgrade your guns/unlock new ones, the way multiplayer felt...off and THE ACHEIVEMENTS, they were just hellish.

I probably won't bother with LP3 at first, maybe pick it up down the line cheap :(

so sad
 

omgeveryone9

New member
Jan 25, 2013
91
0
0
I don't know if this has been said before, but I would like to talk about how Simcity has lost its way.

It is a shame that Maxis was sold to EA. EA has a generally bad reputation as a publisher, and the series has done downhill since it was fully under EA's hands. I started being a fan when Simcity Societies came out. I liked it, but then I got access to Simcity 4, and MAN WAS THAT AWESOME. The only two games that have can suck out hundreds of hours is the SIMS 3 (also by Maxis, but without losing the way yet) and Team Fortress 2. Now I see Societies as a game with potential but basically falling apart. It was even worse than LEGOLAND for PC (anyone remember?) which had the same flaw, but it was still enjoyable and was able to suck in 50 or so hours of gameplay. And if you don't know that game it is like controlling a GIF that resembles LEGOLAND made out of LEGOs.

Back on topic. Now that Simcity 2013 is coming in 2 months and there is a closed BETA, I am worried that Simcity will end up like Sonic or Spore: A good idea turned bad. What do you guys think? Is the Simcity franchise doomed to fail, or does the series still have hope?
 

rwllay

Regular Member
Oct 9, 2009
68
0
11
a little suprised to see such a lack of mentions of Saint's Row, which went from above average GTA clone, to excellent GTA game (far more so than GTA 4 anyway, which could also be argued to hold a place on this list), but then decided it was in it's best interest to leap giddily over the shark flailing a dildo bat, abandoning the foothold in reality (well the series' version of it anyways) that made the occasional wackiness work, combined with strip-mining the customization options, characters, side quests, and just about everything else fun about the first 2
 

NoeL

New member
May 14, 2011
841
0
0
Grenge Di Origin said:
You mean what happens when Nintendo finally gets their heads out of their asses and tries to make a non-Mario/Zelda IP not suck?
You didn't like Return to Dreamland? It wasn't perfect, but was pretty solid overall - certainly didn't suck. Same can be said for Donkey Kong Country Returns, IMO, although I think that was better than Kirby.


Anyway, as tempted as I am to say Banjo Kazooie, Nuts and Bolts feels more like a spinoff than a continuation of the main game. Also, as much shit as that game gets for not being like its predecessors, I think it's a really good game... well, a really good tech demo at least. The vehicle creation is awesome and works really well, but the levels and most of the challenges were just uninspired. It somewhat defeats the purpose of having a large open world when your minimap tells you exactly where you need to go to see everything the level has to offer.
 

deathbydeath

New member
Jun 28, 2010
1,363
0
0
sextus the crazy said:
BrotherRool said:
Fallout is probably gone the furthest from it's roots and Sonic completely changed but now they're also bringing back all the 2d stuff
Fallout's still an open-world sci-fi post apocalyptic WRPG. The only thing that's changed is the camera perspective. And it's still good either way. Something hasn't "lost it's way" if it has become worse.
That's like saying these two cars* are the same because they're both green.

Here's a post by Shamus Young that he made about the transition between developers between Fallout games:
Sweet mother of Mutants, I forgot how unabashedly horrible the Three Dog dialog is. There?s this awful mix where the game is putting motivations and characterizations into your own dialog, the NPC makes all kinds of assumptions that you can?t challenge, and the NPC talks a great deal without saying much. The player?s attempts to direct the conversation are a futile struggle against the iron will of the author.

The Tasteful Understated Nerdrage guy did a video on the Elder Scrolls series and Bethesda Software, and he talked about how Bethesda is good at worldbuilding. (Alas that the guy stopped making stuff. He was doing really good work.) Giving Fallout to Bethesda is like giving DOOM to Peter Molyneux. It requires almost the inverse of the given skillset, preventing them from doing the things they?re good at and demanding a lot of they types of things they?re bad at.

This project didn?t require much in the way of worldbuilding. The Fallout world was already built. They just needed to match the tone of the original games, which were pitch-black comedy. Something like Brazil, Six-String Samurai, or Dr. Strangelove. A lot of the feel of the game came not from the ?50′s vibe? but from the way the game subverted the ?Happy Days vibe? by mixing it with a Mad Max world of savage desolation. Bethesda doesn?t do subversion, they do scope. They make big, detailed worlds and stories that span centuries. Bethesda took the 50′s vibe and just turned it into an design aesthetic, played straight.

When Bethesda makes a new Elder Scrolls game, they roll the calendar forward a couple of centuries to find an open spot in the lore where they?ll have room to work. They tried that here and the setting fell apart. Yes, their skill at environmental storytelling served the game well and they crafted many interesting spaces, but none of it felt like Fallout.

Looking back, it?s obvious to me that Bethesda is just wrong for this material. On the other hand, this sort of thing happens all the time in movies. The people at the top almost never understand the business with enough granularity to understand how to match designers up with material that?s suited for them. Jean-Pierre Jeunet is a talented filmmaker. Joss Whedon is a talented writer. Alien is a franchise with two or three strong films behind it, depending on who you ask. And yet when you combined these three things we wound up with Alien Resurrection, which was a bad Jean-Pierre Jeunet movie, a bad Joss Whedon movie, and a bad Alien movie. It might have been a decent popcorn-munching movie otherwise (depending on personal taste) but it didn?t deliver on the promise of what went into it.



Also Shank. That series went from wonderful to shit in a single game.

A case could also be made for Team Fortress 2 and Minecraft, although they're still hardly bad games.
 

Mordekaien

New member
Sep 3, 2010
820
0
0
Daystar Clarion said:
Assassin's Creed 3 pretty much defines a game that can't decide what it wants to be.

It wants you to freerun, but then places you in a setting with nothing above 2 stories and many building being to far apart to jump to.

It wants to be a stealth game, but it's handled horribly.

It wants you to be the silent killer, running from combat upon discovery, but makes combat so ridiculously unchallenging that you can kill whole armies on your own.
Agreed.
AC is one of those series that keeps adding new and new gameplay elements, that don't improve upon the core idea of being, well, an Assassin.

Also, Elder Scrolls was surely mentioned before, but it gets a pass from me because it still feels like Elder Scrolls- that thrill of exploration is still there.
 

dogenzakaminion

New member
Jun 15, 2010
669
0
0
MajorTomServo said:
Castlevania. From balls-to-the-wall platforming to Metroid: Medieval Edition
Well, actually the original Metroid and Castlevania games were quite similar to begin with, even coining the phrase "Metroidvania" to describe those types of platformers. If anything, Castlevania's mistake was to move away from that style into hack'n'slash: Medieval Edition, and Metroid moving into shooter territory (Hunters and Other M, the Prime Series was amazing)
 

Andrew Bascom

New member
Sep 30, 2010
28
0
0
What about poor Spyro? I only saw him mentioned once and briefly. I mean after the first trilogy, they couldn't get spyro right again. Don't get me wrong I liked the TLoS trilogy but it wasn't really Spyro at that point anymore. Skylanders is pretty amusing, but it's more of a cameo for Spyro and Cynder not really a Spyro game.
 

lechat

New member
Dec 5, 2012
1,377
0
0
have i said paper mario yet? cause if not. paper mario
turned from a really good turn based rpg to.... whatever the fuck nintendo wants to do that involves no rpg elements

EDIT: seriously nintendo sticks the mario name on every second game the put out. couldn't they at least not hi-jack the paper mario brand for a 1% increase in sales on whatever piece of shit they happen to release that year?
 

SnakeCL

New member
Apr 8, 2008
100
0
0
Wow, few things I definitely disagree with in this thread.

First being about Resident Evil, namely, that its the cool thing to pile on the franchise (even after the much undeserved thrashing that RE6 got in the media).

My issue has always been, "Survival horror" is a vague genre. "Survival" in its strictest term refers to inventory management and resource management. The "Horror" aspect is down to individual interpretation. Some people swear Dead Space is an action game, meanwhile other people like my girlfriend can't even play through 3 levels of it without having to take a break.

The thing to remember however, is that the turn from traditional "slow plodding" survival horror to "tension action" started earlier, in RE3 with Nemesis. RE4, by the above terms, can't be classified as "survival horror" either. That game, however, gets a free pass. (and its one of those games I can go back and play and go my god this control scheme is terrible compared to more recent games).

Maybe I'm not making much sense, but I don't think Resident Evil's current gamestyle, and the older style of the original games is as far removed as people seem to think.