Games that punish you for doing well

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FFP2

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Dec 24, 2012
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Dark Souls!

You prove just how much of a "hardcore gamer" you are by walking forward and you get rewarded with a dragon that instakills you! It's the dictionary definition of fun!!!

/sarcasm

Real talk, it's probably Katawa Shoujo of all things. Wanna be a good guy a help a shy girl get over her insecurities? Keep doing it and you get the mother of all outbursts that makes you feel like shit from the quietest charcter in the game.

Also Driver San Francisco. That game had a nasty habit of rubber banding. It wasn't as bad as other racing games though.
 

TheYellowCellPhone

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Sep 26, 2009
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Echopunk said:
Oblivion punished you for leveling. I remember being stuck at an area, and in typical RPG fashion, I left to go grind someplace else for a while. During the trip, I encountered more of the enemy type I was having trouble with and developed a pretty good strategy for dealing with them. Brimming with confidence, I returned to the mission in question, and was met by an entirely different enemy load out that included a couple who could pretty much one-shot me.

On my second play through, I discovered that if I stopped leveling around 12-15, I could keep the game in a sweet spot where the encounters actually made sense.
Yeah, Bethesda games punish you for being high level by making all enemies' powers scale up to you. It makes sense in theory, but not in practice. Enemies constantly have more resistances, too much health and stamina pools, and defense-breaking attacks that throw you on your Level 30+ ass in a shorter time while you try chugging the same underleveled healing items.

Plus you are constantly trying to maintain with the spam by using progressively more expensive and rarer items, that you now must carry with your barely-any-better carry weight, while leveling up to make sure you don't get completely overwhelmed (and thus dig yourself even deeper in the rapehole).
 

Jimmy T. Malice

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FFP2 said:
Dark Souls!

You prove just how much of a "hardcore gamer" you are by walking forward and you get rewarded with a dragon that instakills you! It's the dictionary definition of fun!!!

/sarcasm
That dragon is a bit of a dick move, but it's hardly like you aren't warned. It appears at the start of the Undead Burg, and you can see all of the scorch marks and charred corpses all over the bridge.

And it doesn't insta-kill you. It just takes off half your health, knocks you down, then when the mercy invincibility is over the residual fire kills you.
 

coldfrog

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Dec 22, 2008
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I'm not certain, but I think Zanac [http://www.videogamegeek.com/videogame/84696/zanac] is the earliest, in which the number and toughness of ships that appear on screen are based on how efficient and complete you are in killing and collecting powerups.
 

Alleged_Alec

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I remember playing one of the earlier Sim City games and constantly being hit by meteors and invasions when I got to a certain point. Strangely enough, even turning the disasters off did not work.
But even then: it's a stupid system. You're actively punishing the player for trying to make a cool city and stuff.

And I don't really think autolevelling is a symptom of this perse. It's trying to keep the game interesting. However, I don't know how they keep managing to fuck this sort of stuff up.
 

samgdawg

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As has been stated above Oblivion, and Skyrim every once in a while, is evil for this. Ground your weapon skills to a decent level so you can do decent damage resulting in a few level ups? Enemies are scaled to negate your efforts. Trained your diplomacy related skills because you like to try being nice? Enemies are scaled to rape you because you had the gall to think you could talk to people. Skyrim is a lot better, but if you grind little more than your speech and barter skills for a long time you end up facing Draugr Omega Deathlords or whatever their called.
 

dagens24

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erttheking said:
Mario Kart. If you're in the lead, you get nothing but shit items, and you're a target for the blue shell.
This. The most recent Mario Kart games have all had some really brutal rubber band AI.
 

Ftaghn To You Too

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FFP2 said:
Real talk, it's probably Katawa Shoujo of all things. Wanna be a good guy a help a shy girl get over her insecurities? Keep doing it and you get the mother of all outbursts that makes you feel like shit from the quietest charcter in the game.
Lilly explicitly tells you, to paraphrase slightly "If you keep doing this you're gonna get stabbed when you Startle the Witch. Back off a bit." You only get that Bad End by trusting the judgement of a visual novel protagonist. You NEVER trust visual novel protagonists.
 

SageRuffin

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Dec 19, 2009
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God Hand does this a bit. There's a "level meter" in the lower right hand of the screen. The better you do in-game - landing attacks/God Roullettes, evading enemy attacks - the higher that meter goes, and the more difficult the game becomes, to the point where nearly all the enemies seem psychic.

Incidentally, the higher levels make the game more fun. :/
 

ScrabbitRabbit

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GODS on... well, just about every single console and home computer that was still kicking about in the '90s, would increase the difficulty based on your performance. I prefer to think of it as "rewarding you with a greater challenge" though. The way Mario Kart does it is bullshit, but in GODS and God Hand I think it adds a ton to the game.
 

Sewa_Yunga

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Nov 21, 2011
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The bonus XP for ghosting levels in Deus Ex:HR is rather small compared to what you would get by going in guns blazing and shooting the whole place to tiny bits.

The leveling system in Oblivion was rather broken too. Before I started using overhaul mods, I actually had to make a custom class that had the skills I used least as main skills so I (and thus my enemies) wouldn't level up too fast.
 

Abomination

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Any game with level scaling enemies. I always found it stupid how bandits have full glass armour or something... what's the point of being a bandit if you have armour that costs more than a house?

Crusader Kings II (a game I love with all my heart) does this by creating a kingdom that becomes harder and harder to govern the more territory you have. Trying to split the nation into earldoms when sometimes you just want to give your immediate family dutchies - who will in turn try and reduce your royal authority - can get very frustrating.
 

PinkiePyro

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the only ones i can think of have already been said mario kart, skyrim, and the L4D series


I have to say the L4D series director isnt as bad as Mario karts (its only a jerk once in awhile when you are doing well like throwing two tanks at you right at the start :mad: ) but it is doubled with the the fact it is also a jerk about if you move "too slow" whats that you want to explore the cool map lol nope have a horde in your face
 

Baron_BJ

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Nov 13, 2009
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chickenhound said:
the only ones i can think of have already been said mario kart, skyrim, and the L4D series


I have to say the L4D series director isnt as bad as Mario karts (its only a jerk once in awhile when you are doing well like throwing two tanks at you right at the start :mad: ) but it is doubled with the the fact it is also a jerk about if you move "too slow" whats that you want to explore the cool map lol nope have a horde in your face
True, though the AI director is easy to completely bamboozle. Don't have your team play properly, just bloody leg it from the very second you start, never stop moving in the direction of the exit (blowing away the handful of zeds you actually see) and the AI Director actually can't keep up. It will barely spawn any zombie at all (nor will it spawn many items, but you wouldn't know that because you're too busy legging it to pick them up anyway). It's actually kinda sad.

The Mario Kart rubber banding hasn't changed since 64. It's fucking terrible. Programmers too ham-fisted and lazy to program an AI that is legitimately skilled enough to take on a player? Just fucking add the worst rubber-banding around. It's not even like it's well disguised, Nintendo doesn't even bother to try and conceal it. (Before anyone whines at me, yes, I do like Nintendo but that doesn't change the fact that this is pathetic crap).
 

Misterian

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Well, I think you could say the Dragon Age games sometimes do this, but in a different way.

With the whole Dark Fantasy thing the franchise has going on, there are some moments that have choices you can make that seem benevolent, but end up crashing and burning in the long run.

Want to help a Dwarven girl in going to the Ferelden Mage Circle purely for academic study on magic? go right ahead! if you want the Chantry to consider throwing an Exalted March on the Dwarves.

To be fair, I know it was intentional, but I personally find certain parts of the whole Black and Grey Morality thing Dragon Age has going for it pretty hard to swallow.
 

Best of the 3

10001110101
Oct 9, 2010
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BrotherRool said:
UrinalDook said:
Hooo-Ly Crap, I think you just blew my mind. Though I played a bit of Medieval 2, Rome Total War is the only one I've ever actually owned. I've played it on and off since maybe a year after it came out. But are you telling me there's a reason that after a certain point in the game, it seems like my family's genes crap out and all of my family members start becoming total shits, unless they're actively marching up and down the place winning battles? Are you saying that my massive stockpile of denarii is directly responsible for city governors all being colossal, hated boobs?

Could you maybe bypass that by regularly paying a fuck-off huge tribute to Rome?

As a continuation of that discussion though, there's other ways that Rome at least (like I said, that's pretty much the limits of my experience) punishes you for doing well. It is nearly impossible to maintain frontier settlements once you hit 25 or so territories. They are all so far from your capital that no amount of decent government, entertainment, quality plumbing or low taxes can satisfy those ungrateful citizens. It's a mechanic that doesn't even make sense, so long as goods are flowing out and money flowing in, and so long as you're being treated well, why would you give a crap about how far away the patriarch that dictates to the guy controlling your city lives?

... Have I just made myself sound way too colonial there?
It's true. Over 50,000 gives your generals bad traits (or maybe 500,000 though probably the first one). Though there are ways to counter this problem as well as the settlement problem. Not cure it, but make it easier to handle.

Never get over 50,000. I like to find some weak barbarian faction, preferably one fighting a different Roman faction, and just ship them gifts of gold frequently with a diplomat. You'll get on good terms with them (which to be honest means nothing in that game) and you keep your money pool at a manageable level.

Another tip for avoiding bad traits, don't build shrines to gods of violence, wine/drinks or parties. They're usually bad gods and will give your generals traits like drunkard or Angry etc. I also tend to avoid shrines with population growth or health bonuses, especially in land which is highly or medium fertility. The % growth shoots way high if you do that.

Another tip, the quality of guard in a city makes no difference, it's the quantity. Peasants have 240 units for most factions, cost 100 upkeep and do the best job. They can easily be trained and if die mean nothing of loss. I recommend this for not front line cities, but second and inner cities. Furthermore, if that doesn't work you have to purge your city. Destroy all unit training buildings, including Colosseum and black smiths. When the city revolts it'll be full of untrained peasants and will be easy to kill. Retake the city and execute the people. Do that a few times and the city will be under your control again. Also try not to build above level 2 farms if possible. It reduces growth rate and will keep city number manageable.
 

thesilentman

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Jun 14, 2012
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FFP2 said:
Dark Souls!

You prove just how much of a "hardcore gamer" you are by walking forward and you get rewarded with a dragon that instakills you! It's the dictionary definition of fun!!!

/sarcasm
Actually.. the Four Kings fight is this for me. Every time I go slow and try to learn their tells, I seem to forget that it's a DPS race and they murder me brutally. So yes, the game is punishing me by attacking my method to beat the game.

(I hated that dragon too.)

OT- I guess for me it's DOTA in bot matches, where if you are somewhat good, all of the enemy bots will turn right around and start ganking you like crazy. Note to self, learn how to play better with ALL characters, not just the carries. -.-
 

Best of the 3

10001110101
Oct 9, 2010
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UrinalDook said:
Hooo-Ly Crap, I think you just blew my mind. Though I played a bit of Medieval 2, Rome Total War is the only one I've ever actually owned. I've played it on and off since maybe a year after it came out. But are you telling me there's a reason that after a certain point in the game, it seems like my family's genes crap out and all of my family members start becoming total shits, unless they're actively marching up and down the place winning battles? Are you saying that my massive stockpile of denarii is directly responsible for city governors all being colossal, hated boobs?

Could you maybe bypass that by regularly paying a fuck-off huge tribute to Rome?

As a continuation of that discussion though, there's other ways that Rome at least (like I said, that's pretty much the limits of my experience) punishes you for doing well. It is nearly impossible to maintain frontier settlements once you hit 25 or so territories. They are all so far from your capital that no amount of decent government, entertainment, quality plumbing or low taxes can satisfy those ungrateful citizens. It's a mechanic that doesn't even make sense, so long as goods are flowing out and money flowing in, and so long as you're being treated well, why would you give a crap about how far away the patriarch that dictates to the guy controlling your city lives?

... Have I just made myself sound way too colonial there?
It's true. Over 50,000 gives your generals bad traits (or maybe 500,000 though probably the first one). Though there are ways to counter this problem as well as the settlement problem. Not cure it, but make it easier to handle.

Never get over 50,000. I like to find some weak barbarian faction, preferably one fighting a different Roman faction, and just ship them gifts of gold frequently with a diplomat. You'll get on good terms with them (which to be honest means nothing in that game) and you keep your money pool at a manageable level.

Another tip for avoiding bad traits, don't build shrines to gods of violence, wine/drinks or parties. They're usually bad gods and will give your generals traits like drunkard or Angry etc. I also tend to avoid shrines with population growth or health bonuses, especially in land which is highly or medium fertility. The % growth shoots way high if you do that.

Another tip, the quality of guard in a city makes no difference, it's the quantity. Peasants have 240 units for most factions, cost 100 upkeep and do the best job. They can easily be trained and if die mean nothing of loss. I recommend this for not front line cities, but second and inner cities. Furthermore, if that doesn't work you have to purge your city. Destroy all unit training buildings, including Colosseum and black smiths. When the city revolts it'll be full of untrained peasants and will be easy to kill. Retake the city and execute the people. Do that a few times and the city will be under your control again. Also try not to build above level 2 farms if possible. It reduces growth rate and will keep city number manageable.

EDIT: just realised I quoted the wrong guy >.<