Games will never be accepted as an art form
- Thread starter retyopy
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Allow me to point you all who have not watched them to the Extra Credits videos. They dont have all the answers, but they make some darn good points in my humble opinion.
http://www.escapistmagazine.com/videos/view/extra-credits/3818-Art-Is-Not-the-Opposite-of-Fun
I don't believe that fun and art have to be mutually exclusive, which is what it sounds like many people are implying(as a general impression). Some seem to fear the creation of the stereo typical snooty art critic (as described fairly early in the thread). Its a image many of us know and apparently fear, but why? You ignore them already, but whos to say they dont already exist to some degree. Perhaps the reason you don't see them is because Video games has not evolved through the same process as the other mediums. Those Beret wearing walking jokes were a product of a different time and the different circumstances.
Furthermore I find it strange and slightly sad that the words "taking things seriously" have developed such a negative connotation with people regarding entertainment development.
http://www.escapistmagazine.com/videos/view/extra-credits/3818-Art-Is-Not-the-Opposite-of-Fun
I don't believe that fun and art have to be mutually exclusive, which is what it sounds like many people are implying(as a general impression). Some seem to fear the creation of the stereo typical snooty art critic (as described fairly early in the thread). Its a image many of us know and apparently fear, but why? You ignore them already, but whos to say they dont already exist to some degree. Perhaps the reason you don't see them is because Video games has not evolved through the same process as the other mediums. Those Beret wearing walking jokes were a product of a different time and the different circumstances.
Furthermore I find it strange and slightly sad that the words "taking things seriously" have developed such a negative connotation with people regarding entertainment development.
"Could effectively be replaced by cutscenes"?
So your assertion is that what makes the interactive arts unique in media is actually its most damning quality?
Yeah, sorry, it doesn't work like that.
So your assertion is that what makes the interactive arts unique in media is actually its most damning quality?
Yeah, sorry, it doesn't work like that.
put it this way
if the Supreme Court of the United States had not ruled it as an art
it would be controlled and monitored 24\7 by suites that want to eventual be able to control everything.
it does not matter if individual people consider it an art. as long as it is unrestricted i am content.
if the Supreme Court of the United States had not ruled it as an art
it would be controlled and monitored 24\7 by suites that want to eventual be able to control everything.
it does not matter if individual people consider it an art. as long as it is unrestricted i am content.
I give it a decade or two before there's a new medium that's the devil. When you look at videogames current status of villainy in the eyes of the press, it's reminiscent of other forms of media. Blues, punk and metal I'm sure weren't accepted as art forms in the musical world right away.retyopy said:
It's a matter of time for games, before something comes along to take the fall and then people will see games in a new light. You know, then there's that whole court case that took place that legally declared them as art a while back.
It seems the US Supreme Court and the National Endowment of the Arts disagree with you, then. They've already accepted interactive media as legitimate forms of art. Considering video game have only existed as we know them for about 30 years, I think that's pretty good as far as getting official recognition for a new form of art. Some new mediums and movements are hated for several decades on end, if not centuries, before finally being accepted.retyopy said:
I think it's already happening. It's just a matter of convincing the old people video games are not the devil, just as filmmakers had to convince people that film was not of the devil. And in about fifty years that won't even be a problem anymore. Then it will be us standing in the way of the next artistic movement. It's just the way of things.
Art is simply a representation of one's feelings, Ideals and ideas. It is mans attempt to physically reconstruct that which he has in his minds eye so that others may see it. So that they may love it. Hate it. Critic it. Be indifferent to it. That is what art is. And so, the very fact that you are on a gaming lifestyle website, judging whether or not games are an Art proves that they are. You're post contradicts the reason you meant to put it up. If it wasn't an art, no one would debate it.
Everything this guy said here. You couldn't be more wrong (op). If you really are that thickheaded to believe that every game needs to have hours of killing zombies i suggest you go play "The Stanley Parable". A free mod for HL2 (though you dont need it) that in my honest opinon is art.King of the Sandbox said:
To quote the three headed Knight,
"He buggered off!"
OP sort of disappeared as soon as the good arguments came along.
"He buggered off!"
OP sort of disappeared as soon as the good arguments came along.
People only want games to be recognized as an art so that they can stop feeling bad about playing them. It's a joke how many people seriously make a push for others to accept it. You know what these people should do instead? Stop caring about what other people think. Simple. People don't constantly push for chess/surfing/theoretical math/etc... to be viewed as art because they don't give a damn.
Everyone should just get over it and enjoy doing what they do.
Everyone should just get over it and enjoy doing what they do.
Pretty much what he said. Wanna go back in history and count how many times people said something would never happen...and then it did?King of the Sandbox said:
Games may contain art in them (in the character design or scenery or story) but they themselves are not art. Art does not exist to entertain and although Extra Credits is right that art is not the opposite of fun, you would never hear an art critic say, "In the end, it boils down to whether or not this picture is pretty" in the same way that most game critics would say, "It boils down to whether or not the game is fun." Games of all kinds, whether they are video games or board games or sports or competitions like cup stacking exist to fulfill the human's need for play, which is a completely different need both socially and psychologically from the need for stimulation. Again, aspects of games can be art, in the same way that you can have a beautifully carved chess set, but the game itself isn't art because it doesn't exist to do what art does, mainly explore the human condition. It might do so "on the side," or even as a main facet of the story (like in Bioshock, for example) but its singular goal and purpose is to entertain, and that fact alone precludes it from being art.
And that's not a bad thing, I don't think. Things don't need to be art to be worthwhile ways to spend time. Soccer isn't art, jigsaw puzzles aren't art, but they're still constructive and worthwhile endeavors. People seem to be trying to legitimize gaming by calling it art, but that's really the wrong avenue. It's like trying to legitimize your new religion by marketing it as a sport - if our goal as gamers is to make sure games are respected for what they are, we need to elevate them to the heights of Go or football, not try and push them into a new category where they won't ever compare well.
And that's not a bad thing, I don't think. Things don't need to be art to be worthwhile ways to spend time. Soccer isn't art, jigsaw puzzles aren't art, but they're still constructive and worthwhile endeavors. People seem to be trying to legitimize gaming by calling it art, but that's really the wrong avenue. It's like trying to legitimize your new religion by marketing it as a sport - if our goal as gamers is to make sure games are respected for what they are, we need to elevate them to the heights of Go or football, not try and push them into a new category where they won't ever compare well.
Why even bother posting this. Everyone knows this already. It's not like it would ever in a million years come to pass that the [a href="http://www.escapistmagazine.com/news/view/109835-Games-Now-Legally-Considered-an-Art-Form-in-the-USA"]NATIONAL ENDOWMENT FOR THE ARTS WOULD EVER CALL GAMES AN ART FORM[/a]!
I apologize for the heavy sarcasm, but stuff like this pisses me off. The "never crowd" I call them. Lack of imagination. It's even worse when people like this guy say things are impossible that have already happened, like in this example. Beyond that, those kind of people always existed. "We'll never be able to achieve flight" "Submarines are mere fantasy and could never be built" "Well of course we can achieve flight, but break the sound barrier? That's ludicrous!"
Stop with the neigh saying. Just because you cannot conceive a way for something to work, does not mean it cannot work.
I apologize for the heavy sarcasm, but stuff like this pisses me off. The "never crowd" I call them. Lack of imagination. It's even worse when people like this guy say things are impossible that have already happened, like in this example. Beyond that, those kind of people always existed. "We'll never be able to achieve flight" "Submarines are mere fantasy and could never be built" "Well of course we can achieve flight, but break the sound barrier? That's ludicrous!"
Stop with the neigh saying. Just because you cannot conceive a way for something to work, does not mean it cannot work.
Games are meaningless? Then how come I have seen games really showing the means of slavery, racism, religious fanatics and other important subjects?
I don't think games are art, but they're certainly not meaningless. I've never watched a movie that could make me cry, but I've been close in some games. Taking shooters as an example is the best way to demonstrate how games can never be art. Good thing someone learned something from Fox News.
Seeing a picture by Picasso doesn't give me any feelings. Playing Tales of Symphonia gives me several. Playing Resident Evil 4 gives me only the feeling of fun.
Not all books are art, but some are. Likewise not all games have to be art. Honestly, I don't think games are art, nor do I care. I love them, that's enough for me.
Also games have already been officially declared to be art, so you better be prepared to fight the supreme court on this one.
I don't think games are art, but they're certainly not meaningless. I've never watched a movie that could make me cry, but I've been close in some games. Taking shooters as an example is the best way to demonstrate how games can never be art. Good thing someone learned something from Fox News.
Seeing a picture by Picasso doesn't give me any feelings. Playing Tales of Symphonia gives me several. Playing Resident Evil 4 gives me only the feeling of fun.
Not all books are art, but some are. Likewise not all games have to be art. Honestly, I don't think games are art, nor do I care. I love them, that's enough for me.
Also games have already been officially declared to be art, so you better be prepared to fight the supreme court on this one.
Well, obvious troll is obvious, but there are already games that are far better at being experiences than games. Shadow of the Colossus kinda sucks in the gameplay department for instance, it's just wandering around a huge place looking for some boss battles really. The reason it drags you in is because of the world that surrounds you, and the feeling you get when you realize that what you're doing is ultimately genocide for the sake of one person. You realize (if you're smart) that it probably wasn't actually worth it, and it's your own fault that such magnificent creatures are now all dead.
Another fantastic example is Morrowind, the combat in that game kinda sucks, but what drags you in is the story, characters, and the feeling of the world being so full of life. Even in the most empty towns in the game, you still feel like there's stuff going on in them. There's nothing that stops an action movie from being compelling, just look at Blade Runner for proof of that; games, and all other media, are the same way.
Another fantastic example is Morrowind, the combat in that game kinda sucks, but what drags you in is the story, characters, and the feeling of the world being so full of life. Even in the most empty towns in the game, you still feel like there's stuff going on in them. There's nothing that stops an action movie from being compelling, just look at Blade Runner for proof of that; games, and all other media, are the same way.