Games with something to say

[Razzle Bathbone]

The most beloved works of art (paintings, stage plays, films, novels, music, etc) tend to have a message of some kind in them. The creator has something to get off their chest. Something they believe passionately and need to express. Something important (to them, at least).

I've been getting really excited about Mirror's Edge despite all the zillions of ways it could suck, because it really looks like the game has a point to it. It has something to say about the nature of a society under pervasive surveillance and the trade-off between security and freedom. And I realized that the reason I'm so worked up is because there are so few games that even try to do this. And usually when they do, the message ends up being something dopey and facile like "War is bad, m'kay?" (MGS, I'm lookin' at you) or "Pollution is bad, m'kay?" (bloody FF series) or "Dogmatism is bad, m'kay?" (alas, poor Bioshock).

Deus Ex had a lot to say about power, responsibility, and what it means to be human.

Planescape: Torment explored the question of what it takes to make a person change.

Fallout had some harsh things to say about human nature and the price of heroism.

What other games made their point and made it well?
What does it take for a game to make a point worth making, and do it well?
When a game like this gets it right, how does it succeed? By letting you figure out the point for yourself, or by putting it front and centre where you can't avoid it?
Is it better for a game to offer answers to these things, or questions? And if questions are the best way to do it, how can you create a satisfying game when there are no correct or easy answers?

 

[sammyfreak]

Final Fantasy Tactics Advance

It might have been unintentional but I rate it as the deepest game out there. Ultimately the story is about people "escaping" into a magic book (videogame), hiding from their real world problems behind fantasy. One of the most interesting points of the game is that it explores the idea that it might be a good idea to just let those people be.

People who call it a "kiddy" game are crazy.


Braid; while from just playing the demo I cant talk at length about the story, but what I read in it had some really nice meditations about actions and consequences. Nothing revolutionary or life changing to be honest, but the ideas about standards and accepting flaws did make me think.

 

[Retoru]

I felt that Final Fantasy XII had a message about political corruption and abuse of power, but I may have just been in the frame of mind to see that undercurrent when it didn't exist due to my own displeasure at my nation's government.

 

[DarkSaber]

FFXII was just a shameless rip-off of Star Wars.

 

[NeedAUserName]

MGS4 and Army of 2, what happens when you privatize military

 

[Retoru]

FFXII was just a shameless rip-off of Star Wars.

And Star Wars was a shameless rip-off of early serials and various mythos from various cultures...the point?

 

[gigastrike]

Assassin's Creed talks alot about how there is no right way of thinking; only different ways. All of the villains truly believed what they were doing was right and they all had valid reasons (except for the random killings, but still).

 

[gigastrike]

The point is that everything has been done already.

 

[khululy]

Well lot of games discuss morals, human nature and mankinds motivation to act.
Most JRPGs have quite interesting issues.
One of my favorite stories is the one from Breath of Fire 4.
it's about how lifes of different perons can seemingly entangel trough fate and action. even without the will to do so or something.. been a long while since I've played that game.
Or castlevania games talk about how evil is just as much a part of our world as all things good.
Legecay of kain is a story about hope and free will.

 

[ThePlasmatizer]

Final Fantasy Tactics Advance

It might have been unintentional but I rate it as the deepest game out there. Ultimately the story is about people "escaping" into a magic book (videogame), hiding from their real world problems behind fantasy. One of the most interesting points of the game is that it explores the idea that it might be a good idea to just let those people be.

People who call it a "kiddy" game are crazy.


Braid; while from just playing the demo I cant talk at length about the story, but what I read in it had some really nice meditations about actions and consequences. Nothing revolutionary or life changing to be honest, but the ideas about standards and accepting flaws did make me think.

I found Final Fantasy Tactics Advance deep as well, it's story of escapism was much more interesting and expansive than normal, and it didn't have the simple preconception of good or evil characters like most games, from a different perspective even Marche could be the antagonist.

Most often I don't think developers can get away with highbrow games that have a point to make, because they aren't well written and are so focused upon and heavy they drown the plot and they could just as simply stamp anti-war or anti-drugs on the front to get their point across.

 

[boyitsme95]

MGS1-4 has the best story ever.
Bioshock, GTA4, Half-Life 1-E2, Daiblo 1-2, it goes on and on.

 

[DarkSaber]

FFXII was just a shameless rip-off of Star Wars.

And Star Wars was a shameless rip-off of early serials and various mythos from various cultures...the point?

The point is if that message WAS there, it was entirely by accident.

 

[Decroux]

FFXII was just a shameless rip-off of Star Wars.

And Star Wars was a shameless rip-off of early serials and various mythos from various cultures...the point?

I fully agree with you, DarkSaber. It was like Star Wars without any of the main characters. T'was dull and resembled nothing of the ongoing story that progressed through the other 10 in the series.

Retoru, that was the stupidest thing I have ever seen anyone say as retort. Seriously, there is a difference between shameless ripoff and public friendly envisioning of many grand concepts. Lucas admits that himself! I believe what you posted would be known as trolling.

 

[brabz]

All of the Oddworld games were very funny, but also have themes of corporate greed, globalization, and enviornmental responsibility.

I don't think it's terribly overt or ruins gameplay(obviously from my avatar), but there's definitely a strong message throughout the games. You always play as a "natural" creature seeking to restore enviornmental equilibrium.

 

[Geo Da Sponge]

All of the Oddworld games were very funny, but also have themes of corporate greed, globalization, and enviornmental responsibility.

I don't think it's terribly overt or ruins gameplay(obviously from my avatar), but there's definitely a strong message throughout the games. You always play as a "natural" creature seeking to restore enviornmental equilibrium.

The fact that it sent a message without being patronising was what made it so charming. It was dark and twisted, so unlike every other message about corporate greed, globalization etc. you actually listened instead of just sneering about hippies.

 

[Black yeoman]

Assassin's Creed talks alot about how there is no right way of thinking; only different ways. All of the villains truly believed what they were doing was right and they all had valid reasons (except for the random killings, but still).

Realy? I would have I took it to more of a "sometimes the truth and what is right is hard to see, and in reality, if you try to do the right thing, many also trying to make the world a better place will be opposed to you." But there is a right, just those who cant see it and hose who can (perhaps), if there isnt "a right" then what was the point in the game? what did anyone acheive?

 

[Thaliur]

I think Overlord delivers the message that sometimes, maybe even often, things are in no way like they seem to be

Penumbra - Black Plague even made "one" of its main characters deliver many messages: "If you know yourself, you have nothing to fear", "Working together is the only way", "Death is a necessary part of life, but not all deaths are necessary", "mankind, in a being such as you, selfishness would be catastrophic" and several more.

 

[n01d34]

Jason Roher's art games are quite interesting especially the way he tries to build his message into the game mechanics.

Braid definitely has a lot of interesting things to say but it kind of annoyed me how the pre level text-fests usually just made the subtext text.

As for mainstream games, Halo 2 (braces for impact) had some really cool things to say about loyalty, and redemption in the Arbiter storyline. Mass Effect played with utilitarianism versus the rights of the individual in a way that I really enjoyed.

 

[GyroCaptain]

MGS1-4 has the best story ever.
Bioshock, GTA4, Half-Life 1-E2, Daiblo 1-2, it goes on and on.

Surely you jest. Perhaps MGS had some good things to say, but I would think a story has to be in some way coherent to a casual observer to be the best story ever. MGS storyline encompasses so much confusion, wordiness, and simply Bizarro plot elements as to make it nigh-impenetrable. Without playing the games, it's taken me years to get even a loose grasp of what's going on. Snake/Liquid Snake/Old Snake/Solid Snake, Raiden, Big Boss, Revolver Ocelot, Sniper Wolf, Otakon..... what the hell...

Actually, I think Half-Life 2 sabotaged its own attempts to raise moral ambiguity about Freeman's actions (Breen's ramblings about the fate of humanity) by having the Big Brother aspects of the Combine be almost cartoonish. Which isn't to say that the story is bad in any way, but it could have been a delightful mindscrew with minimal effort and wasn't.

There are plenty of games that take a good story idea and execute it poorly, Gun is a good example. Then you have storylines which are deliberately goofball for a reason, like Stranglehold's tribute to all Hong Kong police movies. To judge storyline one has to decide whether one is rating underlying concept, execution, message, or effect on ambience(horror games).

Halo has a fairly simple story in surface presentation, which started off for each installment as a very complex one that they chopped pieces off of to make it easy for dullards to parse. They left most of what they cut on the floor, i.e. the back corners of the game and incident dialogue, but cut off less as the series went on, making it more confusing. If you approach it as a fan and play the games in order, stitching together the less-obvious, it's more rewarding (like MGS, not quite as barking loony though).

tl;dr: MGS is too loopy to have the best story EVAR, Half Life 2 is NOT the second coming of anyone but Gabe Newell, story value is hard to quantify, and Halo has (IMO) a good story.

 

[BlueMage]

Deus Ex had a lot to say about power, responsibility, and what it means to be human.

I still remember the convo with Morpheus.

Planescape: Torment explored the question of what it takes to make a person change.

I use "What can change the nature of a man?" in a few discussions IRL every now and then. Some people smile when I do.

One thing that has stood out to me was the Aftermath section of CoD4 - no words, just a fairly stark display of what nuclear weapons are capable of, and how indiscriminate they are.

Assassin's Creed talks alot about how there is no right way of thinking; only different ways. All of the villains truly believed what they were doing was right and they all had valid reasons (except for the random killings, but still).

Which is bullshit, because Right and Wrong most certainly exist, and killing others who do not directly threaten your life or the lives those dear to you but are merely an ideological opponent is most certainly Wrong. Doing the Wrong thing for the Right reason is still Wrong.