Games Workshop - the omega of monopolies gone wrong?

[thiosk]

I'm one of those folks who consumes only the books, reads lore, buys video games, and contemplates purchasing pre-painted models off ebay because reasons

I know the company is a little wonky. I feel like I could do a better job at making their awesome grimdark universe more relavent. But i'm not in a position to consult so I will let them get on their merry way and just think about how great it would be to be able to put imperial aquilla over all the doors in my apartment.

 

[TechNoFear]

Don't worry, in ~5 years 3D printers will be affordable (to buy and use) and the 'plans' to create GW models will be on torrent sites.

Then GW will have to redesign their business model to cope with the change in value /demand of their products.

 

[Thaluikhain]

Don't worry, in ~5 years 3D printers will be affordable (to buy and use) and the 'plans' to create GW models will be on torrent sites.

Then GW will have to redesign their business model to cope with the change in value /demand of their products.

You can already get 3D printed GW stuff, or decent substitutes. People don't want to though, people currently at least prefer getting the real thing.

 

[Psychobabble]

Cost of miniatures and materials was the main reason I quit the tabletop game. And that was a good 5 years ago now. God only knows what the prices are at now!

I remember the days when a Codex was £8. Those were the days.

Same here. Once I became able to experience the Warhammer universe in computer games I couldn't give up table top quickly enough. Heck, these days I think it would be cheaper to just become a dope fiend than to take up table top gaming.

 

[bartholen_v1legacy]

Never have I seen any company have such an openly hostile "fuck you" attitude towards its customers. But what are we gonna do? They make the rules and miniatures, and while there are some alternative miniature manufacturers, getting alternative models for any army beyond the most typical stuff is next to impossible.

If you don't like their policy (which I don't blame you for) have you considered not playing Warhammer at all? I used to play a lot of GW games and they've produced some truly glorious game systems but I never really considered their big 3 to be among them. I got a bit sick of 40k's squidgy rules but always loved Battlefleet Gothic, when they stopped making the models I realised I'd never be able to repair the models I damaged getting to uni which was actually pretty gutting. When that happened I started looking for other wargames and I ended up playing Warmachine, Privateer Press have a very good pricing policy and their books are pretty self contained.

Not really, no. Despite my ranting, I still enjoy playing both 40k and FB immensely (yeah, I like it, sue me) and my miniature collection has gotten quite vast on every one of the 4 armies I play. Plus I very very rarely buy stuff new from GW anymore.

I'm honestly surprised Warhammer bootlegs are basically nonexistant. I mean making them is simple and dirt cheap, making them identical to or even better than the licensed ones and sell them literally for cents would be a breeze. I guess that'd be the only way to break Games Workshop's monopoly. Once they're painted, nobody would see the difference anyway if there is any.

Captcha: exercise more

Bite me, captcha.

Because GW has an exceedingly aggressive attitude towards bootleggers and recasters. I can't remember any example of them doing that now, but they tried to sue a guy for copyright infringement because he used the term "Space Marine" in his novel. So, yeah, I wouldn't want to tempt fate by trying to sell recast versions of their models on the Internet.

 

[Thaluikhain]

Because GW has an exceedingly aggressive attitude towards bootleggers and recasters. I can't remember any example of them doing that now, but they tried to sue a guy for copyright infringement because he used the term "Space Marine" in his novel. So, yeah, I wouldn't want to tempt fate by trying to sell recast versions of their models on the Internet.

You don't have to, mind, you are allowed to make and sell similar stuff.

In many cases, this is quite reasonable, GW doesn't have the monopoly on naked elf women with whips. For that matter, GW is heavily inspired by other people's ideas.

Sometimes it's fairly blatant, though. Heresy Miniatures are asking for trouble.

 

[Eclectic Dreck]

You know what the worst part is? Even if the price isn't much of an object (and it isn't for me), even if you have a ready venue (I'm sure there's one around here somewhere), I still have to assemble and then paint dozens of tiny models.

I literally have zero interest in the arts and crafts aspect of the game. I've tried to get into it and somewhere around here I have three different battleforces (IG, Space Marine and Eldar) of which perhaps a total of 20 models have ever been assembled and painted.

That's why, were I ever to actually get into a tabletop game, I'd probably opt for something like Warmachine - at least then I could spend a day gluing and painting and just be done with it.

 

[Plasmadamage]

As a side note (I have nothing really to add that hasn't been already said) how much of their profit is actually from models? Something tells me that the Black Library and game licensing (I guess this no longer applies) may be the actually monetary muscle of GW.

... A depressingly large part of me wanted him to be holding a bolt pistol.

... And be a commissar.

 

[Nadia Castle]

I have only ever bought a couple of boxes of Chaos Marines because I quite enjoy assembling and painting them. Then after one house moving later every single one of them was smashed to pieces. I wasn't even that pissed off until I went to visit a friend later on who has been playing it for years and had models you'd need to take a house brick to to dent. Hearing about the lower prices too put me right off. Basically I'd considered it as a new thing to do but dropped it thanks to their horrible price and cost cutting exercises.

I'd say the idiocy of table top and video gaming are quite different with that in mind. Games Workshop are pinching every penny with literally no plan of how to sustain itself. The likes of EA just have this insane belief that if they spend more money then millions of customers will pay full price for it in the first week. Its pathetic, but they do at least see a window for profit in there somehow.

Someone write quite a good blog on how Games Workshop has basically become the stagnant, dying Imperium of the tabletop world. http://thefrontlinegamer.blogspot.co.uk/2011/09/is-imperium-metaphor-for-games-workshop.html

 

[Zykon TheLich_v1legacy]

Because GW has an exceedingly aggressive attitude towards bootleggers and recasters. I can't remember any example of them doing that now, but they tried to sue a guy for copyright infringement because he used the term "Space Marine" in his novel. So, yeah, I wouldn't want to tempt fate by trying to sell recast versions of their models on the Internet.

I think in future the issue is more likely to be people making them for themselves at home, rather than commercial bootlegging. At the moment ebay is cheap enough to make the hassle of casting too much bother for most people. Casting is messy, time consuming and takes a bit of practice to get good at and unless you buy large tubs of material it's not that cheap either so for a starter it can be a bit off-putting. When 3D printers get going though it might be a different story.

You don't have to, mind, you are allowed to make and sell similar stuff.

In many cases, this is quite reasonable, GW doesn't have the monopoly on naked elf women with whips. For that matter, GW is heavily inspired by other people's ideas.

Sometimes it's fairly blatant, though. Heresy Miniatures are asking for trouble.

Absolutely, there are loads of companies making 28mm sci fi minis that you can use if you play with your friends. It only feels like a monopoly because people are convinced that GW is the only place to play GW's games and you have to play the latest edition. I started collecting warhammer minis back in 1991 and I only played my first game in a GW about a year or so ago and I still play Rogue Trader.

There's a good few "totally not Warhammer honest" companies out there (although personally I prefer ebay) and plenty of generic sci fi and fantasy companies that you could substitute. But I do kind of get the OP's point that, at least with 40k, it's very difficult to make a full on army like that, and in many cases the alternatives are just as or more expensive than GW and you're pretty much limited to IG substitutes. That's why GW keep going I think, they have a very large range of very nice models with a distinct look that the smaller companies just can't afford to put out and can't copy too closely. Sure you can get elves elsewhere, but you want Eldar? You gotta go to GW.

http://sciborminiatures.com/en_,index.php
http://www.gaspez-arts.com/home.html
http://maxmini.eu/
http://eurobitz.com/fr/121-warforge
Reaper do a few that fit in with GW too.
http://www.manticgames.com/home.html
http://www.pig-iron-productions.com/
http://www.hfminis.co.uk/
http://studiomcvey.highwire.com/
http://www.urbanwarthegame.com/store-ecwid.php

and plenty more. Even with all those companies you still don't have the range you do with GW unless you're looking for alternate IG (and even then it's primarily infantry) and you have to piss around dealing with all these different websites. There are online mini stores that group them together but they rarely have the full ranges. So really, unless you're very devoted to it GW is just easier.

 

[OneCatch]

Because GW goes beyond merely trying to take our money, and seems to actively want to alienate its supporters.

Aren't Games Workshop the ones who tried to claim that they had the legal rights to the phrase 'space marine', despite it existing in various forms about 30 years before they used it? And ended up threatening some independent sci-fi writer for using the phrase in a rather insignificant ebook?

If so then yep, I agree; their management people are alienating, moneygrabbing bastards with no respect for the sci-fi genre!

 

[Ihateregistering1]

I see your point, but honestly it's something I'm having a hard time getting worked up about.

Yes, they basically dominate the industry, and they probably do overcharge, but if people continue to buy from them despite the price increases, it essentially continuously sends the message to them that their prices and business practices are acceptable (if they weren't they would see a massive decrease in sales).

Likewise, let's face it here: we're not talking about some evil corporation raising the price of bread and medicine for people who are dirt poor, this is a tabletop game with models, it's just entertainment.

 

[Gennadios]

Here's an easy explanation:

Their tactics are having the dual effect of 1) making it more expensive for new TT gamers to enter the market, and 2) alienating their less 'loyal' consumer base.

So why have GW been making less miniatures for the same price, dropping quality, and increasing the price of their print items? Because they're shifting the lost revenue from their rapidly shrinking fanbase to their still existing fans.

This is why I washed my hands of the whole tabletop thing 5 years ago and I'm done with gaming outside of the indie scene right now, both the video games industry and the tabletops are having the exact same problems.

I have a feeling within about 5 years Games Workshop will end up pulling a SEGA and get out of the miniatures business altogether, they'll just stay open for business marketing their game settings to video game companies and authors.

 

[someonehairy-ish]

They've made it so that the only people who can afford their stuff are spoilt kids and middle aged men. Never mind the ethics of it, it seems like a terrible business model.

Personally I'll occasionally buy something i like the look of, just to paint. Its way too expensive to do anything more than that.

 

[Hawk of Battle]

I don't play the tabletop game itself, I just read the books, but unfortunately this shit seems to be happening with regards to Black Library now as well. It used to be that I could go into my local Waterstones and pick up the latest Horus Heresy novel for about £8 the moment it was released.

Now they first come out in a £20 hardback version and I have to wait 3 months before a £13 softback edition comes out, then wait another 3 months before the £8 "legacy" edition is avilable. Yeah, you literally have to wait half a year longer to get the same product I've been buying for years now, all because they want to release a more expensive, larger print version first.

Yeah, fuck that.

 

[PunkZERO]

Well I've actually never seen a company with its head stuck further up their own arses than GW.

I started WH40K back with the third edition in 1998 and since then...well...certainly the models look nicer now but hell, raising the prizes is certainly not the cure for everything. They are losing players by the buckets and their only answer is: up with the prizes.
Now I'm not saying that they should "dumb it down to appeal to a wider audience" because let's face it: tabletop-gaming is and always has been a niche-hobby. There have to be other ways. For one: treating the customer like a customer and not like an idiot. I worked for GW a couple of years back and (shitty payroll aside) that's basically what the customer is. You have to tell even long-year hobbyists about every. Single. Shitty. Detail.

I'm really torn on this subject because I really still like the hobby itself. It makes for a fantastic timesink and the new models etc. are always something I anxiously await.

The hobby itself I love...it's the business side I can't stand.

 

[Terminal Blue]

And lo, for evilthecat did descend from Nottingham bearing these commandments, that all may be able to enjoy tabletop gaming without being gouged.

* Thou shalt not play anything except specialist games.
* If playest thou in stores or official tournaments, thou shalt buy the shittiest old models thou canst find on ebay for £1.99 and convert them, otherwise thou shalt use alternate models.
* Thou shalt spend thy spare money supporting other miniatures companies with really good and original games and products.

 

[Soviet Heavy]

Cost of miniatures and materials was the main reason I quit the tabletop game. And that was a good 5 years ago now. God only knows what the prices are at now!

I remember the days when a Codex was £8. Those were the days.

Space Marine Centurions. Three models in a pack. $98 Canadian. To put that in perspective, when I quit playing years ago, a box of Terminators had FIVE models, and cost $65 Canadian.

 

[CaptainMidlands]

Quite a few of my friends have worked for GW in the past, as such i wish to tell you a tale of GW training.

Trainer: Ok, so I've just come in and brought a new Storm talon. I'm excited and have more money to spend, what do you do?

Staff: He clearly likes Space Marines and Flyers so suggest either some tactical marines or a land speeder or perhaps an IG squad and Valkyrie to use as allies

Trainer: No, you offer him a Winged Fell Beast and get him to spend money on Lotr that was when he wants new stuff he has two systems to buy from

End....

That's why i made the swap to companies like Privateer Press and Spartan Games and Mantic, they are basically GW 20 years ago when it was good.

Infact, i once heard about a GW that used to have a bitz bucket, you paid in or put in some bits and you could take out a few bits if you needed them, Hq told them to stop as it was stopping people buying full models for the bits