GameStop: "We Wouldn't Be Here" Without Used Sales

[Treblaine]

How about offering something to used customers, you know DLC might be the solution if it had something substantial enough to be an incentive. Or how making digital purchasing less of a pain, If getting it directly from publishers is easier and cheaper than going to a shop then that would work too.

That's something the game makers can do but they are only half of the equation, the dilemma is the Retailers make up a pivotal part but their contribution is being severely undermined.

The thing is what CONTRIBUTION do retail stores provide to gamers wanting to buy games if the publishers pay for their development and the developers do the art and coding? Obviously, they are the arbiters who can sell games but online retailers have proven to be FAR more efficient, people don't trust store owners opinions, they much rather find out about games online and PLAY them online.

Part of the business of selling games may include giving advice but really... who is dumb enough to walk into a store for buying advice? It's like asking:

"should I give you a bit of money or a LOT of money"

of course they will NOT recommend what is best for you but what is best for them i.e. buy their new games at their high launch price before they devalue. Really, "Bricks and mortar" Retail Stores are for the gullible, ignorance and impulsive game buyers. The staff sweet-talk young and new gamers into buying what is most favourable to them, and your actual tastes secondary.

The smart, upmarket "hardcore" gamers research online and search for the best prices online and inevitably BUY online, that is the major competitor here: Amazon. these super-efficient websites can sell in vast quantities with minimum running costs so turn hsuge profits even with slim margins.

Even on trade in, the Retail stores are rip-offs, smart gamers resell on Ebay or similar by cutting out the middle man they get 100% of the price paid for resale.

I think the main recipient of pre-owned business are kids - under 18 - who are not old enough for ebay nor buying games online (both require credit/debit cards). All they likely have is a cash allowance, and you can't use cash online. And trade in games you get cash or store credit. Retail stores in the mall/high-street are vital for kids begging their parents to buy them something. The casual crowd (new gamers basically) also prefer retail stores for easy browsing and impulse buys, all the way "friendly" staff rationalising any purchase you want at all.

If Gamestop want to survive they can't rely on the Halos and Gears of Wars that under 18's are buying*, they need to branch out downmarket with EVEN MORE casual shit like Wii, Kinect and Move's sports titles. They need to be more like Blockbusters or Best Buy and less like a specialist store and they stand no chance against specialist online stores.

I say good riddens if the high-street retail stores turn into casual-villes. Internets FTW!

(*crazy simple solution to little kids paying for mature games is to mandate they pay with credit/debit card that proves their age)

 

[mattaui]

I might actually support used sale bans, if it would make Gamestop go out of business. Still, reselling things is kind of a fundamental capitalist principal.

I don't see what the big deal is about used games? How are they any different from used CD's or used DVD's?

Or used cars? The used car market is huge and few people buy them new as they can be so expensive.

It is actually different from cars, in that you don't "finish" using a car. A car provides a continuous benefit, which you give up when you sell it (same for a music CD, assuming you didn't just rip it to your computer and immediately resell it). With a game, or at least a single player one, once you resell it you were probably done with it anyway. Of course, the same is true of books and movies, and I haven't seen the book publishers complaining yet. (although production costs for books are much, much lower than for games).
Really, it boils down to cutting-edge graphics being way more expensive than the demand for them can actually support, and game companies being too set in their ways to figure out the problem with their business model.

All very good points, though I'll add a few.

While some folks drive a car for 10-15 years or put 200k miles on it and definitely 'finish' the car, plenty of others drive one for a few years and move on to another one. A lot of people do, in fact, which is why there are so many used cars available that are quite a good deal. Those most definitely eat into the profits of large automakers, since someone might say, hey, I'd rather pay half and get a car that's new to me, drive it for a few years and get another, rinse repeat. If only Gamestop sold used games as cheaply as you can get a used car. That's what rubs most folks the wrong way, I think, but it's simply a matter of charging what the market will bear.

GS gave me great prices for used hardware that I was very much done with, but clearly had good value to someone else and while not the absolute maximum amount I could have gotten had I wanted to take the time and effort to list it online, it made up for it in time, effort and extra store credit for games and hardware I was going to purchase anyway.

 

[veloper]

I don't blame gamestop and other used game outlets.

Instead pity the idiots who will sell their games for a few cents and then buy used games for a tiny discount, instead of trading among eachother, or going rental.

Abusing the system by trading in used games for other games claiming the game is broken, is rather clever though.

 

[squid5580]

"Without used games sales, Gamestop wouldn't be here." Hmmm, must be Obvious Day at Camp Stupid. In other related news, fish swim under the water because without water, the fish wouldn't be here.

So if used game sales are viewed as "piracy" by developers, why haven't they attempted to file a suit against Gamestop and similar stores and demanded a piece of the action? Or better yet, file an injunction against said companies to desist the action of selling used games? Or sue people on Ebay for selling used games?

And why do they support them in the first place? Why do they give GS and Amazon the pre order swag while places that don't sell used games usually get jack?

 

[Parapara]

And I believe every word of it. I buy used games all the time and I see no problem with it. The only system I don't buy used games for is my 360 Elite, and I try to keep it as clean and smooth as I possibly can.

I buy used games because it's cheaper, renting a new game every week is very expensive(I don't use online renting sites), and I'm also paying my rent and such so if I want a little "me money", I want to spend it on a nice, fully fuctional, used game. :/

 

[GonzoGamer]

I don't see what the big deal is about used games? How are they any different from used CD's or used DVD's?

Or used cars? The used car market is huge and few people buy them new as they can be so expensive.

So all the publishers have to do then is to make the discs self destruct in a couple of years.
That's what the car companies have done. My first car was the same age as me. I doubt that now-a-days you'll find many new drivers driving 20 year old cars but that used to be the norm.

It's not really relevant to me anymore but when I used to buy used games, they were a lot cheaper than a new copy. What I don't understand is if you plan on buying a used copy of something at Gamestop, why not buy it new, it's only another couple of bucks over the $57 used price.

The funny thing is that the Publishers weren't complaining about this until the consumers started complaining about this: you never heard the publishers complain when gamers were buying games for $5-15. Probably because they knew that these people would otherwise not buy the game at all.

The main problem is that Gamestop has horribly gouged the used game market so much that even games on ebay reflect their used prices.

 

[megapenguinx]

Get stuffed.
Stop attacking legitimate business and do something to encourage customers.

It's like ford and GM crying about the massive used market for cars, there's not a damn thing you can do about it well you could try but your customers will hate you for it and some other company will sell none crippled products just to get your customers.

It seems the games industry forms it opinion on how well something has done within the first month anyway and most used copies are bought a couple of months if not years down the line.

How about offering something to used customers, you know DLC might be the solution if it had something substantial enough to be an incentive. Or how making digital purchasing less of a pain, If getting it directly from publishers is easier and cheaper than going to a shop then that would work too.

Or look at the long term market and keep all your games for sale on-line indefinitely you know my dungeon Keeper 2 disc is pretty worn out these days and I'd love to buy another but the only way I stand a chance is hoping I find a reasonable human being with a copy on ebay.

(bugger...DK2 is actually bad example as Mastertronic are selling it for £8 inc postage)

Or another idea... How about releasing a game exclusive to a service like onlive (no bitching now it actually does work) for a low rental type price the first month or three then release a boxed\download copy that includes an expansion after that. This would give a cinema type release and a purely on-line system could run on almost any hardware so the potential market is pretty huge. After that DLC could be used to encourage used game buyers to spend money with you.

The problem with Onlive and services like that is that if you ever cancel the service then you lose everything.

Offering incentives to buy the game new (short of using DRM) is the way to go.
Offer a unique weapon that you can only get if you buy the game new and is tied to the game it came with (so as to prevent people from getting them online). That is the best way to go.

 

[Jared]

Dosnt surprise me...they dont make up much of the same of new games...but, with production companies wanting to go digital, I can see it gettign hard for retailers...

I still like my physical copies

 

[Heavic]

How about offering something to used customers, you know DLC might be the solution if it had something substantial enough to be an incentive. Or how making digital purchasing less of a pain, If getting it directly from publishers is easier and cheaper than going to a shop then that would work too.

That's something the game makers can do but they are only half of the equation, the dilemma is the Retailers make up a pivotal part but their contribution is being severely undermined.

The thing is what CONTRIBUTION do retail stores provide to gamers wanting to buy games if the publishers pay for their development and the developers do the art and coding? Obviously, they are the arbiters who can sell games but online retailers have proven to be FAR more efficient, people don't trust store owners opinions, they much rather find out about games online and PLAY them online.

Part of the business of selling games may include giving advice but really... who is dumb enough to walk into a store for buying advice? It's like asking:

"should I give you a bit of money or a LOT of money"

of course they will NOT recommend what is best for you but what is best for them i.e. buy their new games at their high launch price before they devalue. Really, "Bricks and mortar" Retail Stores are for the gullible, ignorance and impulsive game buyers. The staff sweet-talk young and new gamers into buying what is most favourable to them, and your actual tastes secondary.

The smart, upmarket "hardcore" gamers research online and search for the best prices online and inevitably BUY online, that is the major competitor here: Amazon. these super-efficient websites can sell in vast quantities with minimum running costs so turn hsuge profits even with slim margins.

Even on trade in, the Retail stores are rip-offs, smart gamers resell on Ebay or similar by cutting out the middle man they get 100% of the price paid for resale.

I think the main recipient of pre-owned business are kids - under 18 - who are not old enough for ebay nor buying games online (both require credit/debit cards). All they likely have is a cash allowance, and you can't use cash online. And trade in games you get cash or store credit. Retail stores in the mall/high-street are vital for kids begging their parents to buy them something. The casual crowd (new gamers basically) also prefer retail stores for easy browsing and impulse buys, all the way "friendly" staff rationalising any purchase you want at all.

If Gamestop want to survive they can't rely on the Halos and Gears of Wars that under 18's are buying*, they need to branch out downmarket with EVEN MORE casual shit like Wii, Kinect and Move's sports titles. They need to be more like Blockbusters or Best Buy and less like a specialist store and they stand no chance against specialist online stores.

I say good riddens if the high-street retail stores turn into casual-villes. Internets FTW!

(*crazy simple solution to little kids paying for mature games is to mandate they pay with credit/debit card that proves their age)

Your view of humanity is quite scary. I can only imagine how people have treated you to cause this.

 

[Treblaine]

Spoiler: CLICK for Treblaine's musings of Video Games retail economy

How about offering something to used customers, you know DLC might be the solution if it had something substantial enough to be an incentive. Or how making digital purchasing less of a pain, If getting it directly from publishers is easier and cheaper than going to a shop then that would work too.

That's something the game makers can do but they are only half of the equation, the dilemma is the Retailers make up a pivotal part but their contribution is being severely undermined.

The thing is what CONTRIBUTION do retail stores provide to gamers wanting to buy games if the publishers pay for their development and the developers do the art and coding? Obviously, they are the arbiters who can sell games but online retailers have proven to be FAR more efficient, people don't trust store owners opinions, they much rather find out about games online and PLAY them online.

Part of the business of selling games may include giving advice but really... who is dumb enough to walk into a store for buying advice? It's like asking:

"should I give you a bit of money or a LOT of money"

of course they will NOT recommend what is best for you but what is best for them i.e. buy their new games at their high launch price before they devalue. Really, "Bricks and mortar" Retail Stores are for the gullible, ignorance and impulsive game buyers. The staff sweet-talk young and new gamers into buying what is most favourable to them, and your actual tastes secondary.

The smart, upmarket "hardcore" gamers research online and search for the best prices online and inevitably BUY online, that is the major competitor here: Amazon. these super-efficient websites can sell in vast quantities with minimum running costs so turn hsuge profits even with slim margins.

Even on trade in, the Retail stores are rip-offs, smart gamers resell on Ebay or similar by cutting out the middle man they get 100% of the price paid for resale.

I think the main recipient of pre-owned business are kids - under 18 - who are not old enough for ebay nor buying games online (both require credit/debit cards). All they likely have is a cash allowance, and you can't use cash online. And trade in games you get cash or store credit. Retail stores in the mall/high-street are vital for kids begging their parents to buy them something. The casual crowd (new gamers basically) also prefer retail stores for easy browsing and impulse buys, all the way "friendly" staff rationalising any purchase you want at all.

If Gamestop want to survive they can't rely on the Halos and Gears of Wars that under 18's are buying*, they need to branch out downmarket with EVEN MORE casual shit like Wii, Kinect and Move's sports titles. They need to be more like Blockbusters or Best Buy and less like a specialist store and they stand no chance against specialist online stores.

I say good riddens if the high-street retail stores turn into casual-villes. Internets FTW!

(*crazy simple solution to little kids paying for mature games is to mandate they pay with credit/debit card that proves their age)

Your view of humanity is quite scary. I can only imagine how people have treated you to cause this.

Seriously?

Hmm... 24 post counts and a comment like THAT for my recognising Gamespot's best target market and the follies of high-street retail? Get real mate, you're new to posting here, I suggest you moderate your comments and save on the hyperbole as you're dangerously close to Troll territory.

For example you didn't object to a SINGLE ONE of my points, just jumped right into a personal attack. This is NOT forums.gametrailers.com

I'm not judging human kindness and trust (view of humanity), I am objectively looking at the financial pressures and the consumer needs of different demographics! You're naive if you think companies like Gamestop are not ALWAYS trying to maximise their income and profits, their staff may act like they are there benevolently to help their customers but they know what games they need to sell and they have influence over anyone who will listen.

It's economics... don't make this personal.

 

[Deathfish15]

The problem is the they rely too much on used game sales. They don't even try as much to offer new games to sale.

Take for example the new Gamestop that just opened at my local mall last week. Completely new store, I went in there on their 2nd day (well, I was going to the theater and noticed the store and was like..."WTF?!"). The used-game sections were twice to three times as big as the retail games section. Their PC games.....only one median shelf; not even a full shelf of both sides, just one side with about 13 different games total and then an end-cap that had 20 box displays for Starcraft2. AND YET, they had a ....hold it....GAMECUBE SECTION! That's right, they had 4 used Gamecubes for sale there and also had over 100+ games covering an entire front and back double-shelf median.


So, even when PC gaming is picking up largely again, Gamestop decides to try to completely axe it for space for used games and consoles from last generation. And then they only put out enough space for the top 5 or so "blockbuster PC games", no others considered.

 

[Unrulyhandbag]

Get stuffed. snip

The problem with Onlive and services like that is that if you ever cancel the service then you lose everything.

Offering incentives to buy the game new (short of using DRM) is the way to go.
Offer a unique weapon that you can only get if you buy the game new and is tied to the game it came with (so as to prevent people from getting them online). That is the best way to go.

That problem is specific to the way onlive themselves do business not the remote gaming model itself.

There's no reason they couldn't just keep the account in a suspended state indefinitely.

I'm talking about a wholly different use of the system than they have currently they 'sell' you the game at full price and then rob you should you stop playing for a few months.

I envisage as a rental system for the games that are debuting on the system before general release, and then a low price purchase (unlimited rental) after release to keep playing it. Or as a service for consoles\PCs that way you could just ditch games once released and send people their saves for when they buy the reail version..

 

[ItsAPaul]

I'm not going to feel sorry for a business just because they say they have to do something hurting the industry to stay alive, so I highly doubt anyone at EA or other companies destroying used sales care.

 

[Grampy_bone]

I've said it before: lower game prices and all Gamestop's used sales will go poof.

People buy used because they don't see the value in a new game. The industry highly overvalues its products.

 

[wulfy42]

What about video game rentals? Are those piracy as well? Will blockbuster and gamefly be banned from renting video games next?

Gamestop probably helps prevent used game sales more then anyone else because they charge way to freaking much for used games and pay way to little for trade in. I freaking GIVE my games away instead of trading them in at that store because it's rediculous how much they will give you for something and then how much they charge someone else for the item you just got $1.50 for.

If there are a bunch of games I want to play I usually sign up for gamefly for a few months. If I really like a game, I buy it, if it's just ok and one play through is enough I don't.

Does this hurt the game industry?

NO!!!

It makes the game developers responsible for the crap they are releasing. The days when we have to buy a game to find out if it's total junk and worthless are over. Used games, game rentals etc allow people to buy only the games they actually want and think are worth the cost.

Most good games are hard to get used fairly early on and sell for just about the same price. Look at games like super mario galaxy 1 for instance...the used price is still not much lower then the new price and if they were to re-release it at $30 it would be cheaper new right now then used (they would of course drop the used price but many would buy it new...especially if extra content was added or something).

Piracy is a problem but honestly game companies releasing total worthless games was a much bigger problem and still is. Now at least we have websites with reviews, rental companies etc to help us avoid wasting money on total crap. If only that had been around back when FFx-2 was released!! Oh wait, it was....I just hadn't started using them yet.

 

[Grampy_bone]

*snip*

I like your "only morons walk into a store to buy something" attitude, along with your pretentious "I'm too awesome to fall for marketing and sales pitches" BS.

I mean sure, if you're a misanthropic troll who only emerges from under his bridge to feast on the raw flesh of passing goats, you have little use for friendly sales associates. However most people who actually have money and use it to buy stuff are still interested in helpful and knowledgeable people to assist them in their shopping experience.

While stories abound of retail horror, most people who work at game stores are genuinely interested in the hobby and very enthusiastic about helping other people to enjoy it as well. This means building a rapport, chatting about other games they may like, and generally creating a positive atmosphere which creates repeat customers. Removing the human equation is not wise, nor does it make you more "enlightened" or "hardcore" to scoff at personal interaction at a direct level.

Ignore sales and communication skills at your own peril, my friend.

 

[Sgt Pepper]

I still like my physical copies

tbh I used to be the same but got drawn in to buying some titles on PC through download - 1 was an MMO expansion that they did as digital only, some bargains from Steam and most recently I bought Warband directly from Talesworld (I could have saved a couple of quid buying it at Game but felt the devs were worth supporting, especially as I'd been playing the game for 6 months for free in beta).

Interestingly, once you start doing it you don't miss boxed copies even half as much as you thought you would and actually realise what you do with boxed copies - put them on a shelf, taking up space and gathering dust until next time you play them.

 

[BloodSquirrel]

I don't see what the big deal is about used games? How are they any different from used CD's or used DVD's?

Honestly?

Because most people looking for music cheap just pirate, and most people only buy DVDs because they want to keep the movie around in the first place (or they pirate).

 

[esperandote]

It's perfectly legit to sale used items why they must give explanations?

 

[thenumberthirteen]

I don't see what the big deal is about used games? How are they any different from used CD's or used DVD's?

Or used cars? The used car market is huge and few people buy them new as they can be so expensive.

So all the publishers have to do then is to make the discs self destruct in a couple of years.
That's what the car companies have done. My first car was the same age as me. I doubt that now-a-days you'll find many new drivers driving 20 year old cars but that used to be the norm.

It's not really relevant to me anymore but when I used to buy used games, they were a lot cheaper than a new copy. What I don't understand is if you plan on buying a used copy of something at Gamestop, why not buy it new, it's only another couple of bucks over the $57 used price.

The funny thing is that the Publishers weren't complaining about this until the consumers started complaining about this: you never heard the publishers complain when gamers were buying games for $5-15. Probably because they knew that these people would otherwise not buy the game at all.

The main problem is that Gamestop has horribly gouged the used game market so much that even games on ebay reflect their used prices.

I don't know how it is where you're from, but where I am cars today are far more reliable than 20 years ago. In the bad old days your car would simply fall apart if you didn't constantly repair it. The build quality was awful. It's much better nowadays.