Gaming and Real World Combat Tactics

[Phoenixmgs_v1legacy]

Not sure why you're getting annoyed. You used a racing game analogy, I posited my own experience with motorbikes and motorbike racing games. Gave a direct example and how they get the basics wrong, and how they don't even teach you basic things= you need to keep safe on the roads. I know fuck all about cars ... well that's not true, I can drive one, just not as well as I should so I usually stick to my bike whenever I need private transport where feasible. I know enough about motorbikes to know videogames do not do anyone justice inthose regards...

Can you tell me a video game you think actually gave you skills? Because I feel like any example of any genre you're just going to say is somehow incorrect for nebulous reasons.

What I'm saying and what you're saying are 2 different things, that's why I got annoyed. I'm saying video games will impart very specific things that can HELP you fully learn something faster vs you're saying video game can't teach you how to FULLY drive a motorcycle [or be a survivalist] properly, which I never claimed. Did racing games teach me how to drive a car completely? No, but they did teach some things that are important to driving a car. The knowing what to do in a skid has to be instinctual, I think playing racers helped in making that instinctual. I also actually drive a certain way because of shooter games of all things. In shooters, I constantly use the radar and where my teammates are to get a "snapshot" of the battlefield and get a really good sense where enemies can and can't be. When I spawn in for example, the 1st thing I do is look at where my teammates are and more importantly aren't, and I fill-in where there is a possible hole in our defensive line because map control is crucial. When I drive I constantly look in my mirrors (I actually use the side mirrors properly [http://www.escapistmagazine.com/forums/read/18.943011-Poll-How-many-of-you-have-your-cars-side-mirrors-set-properly?page=1] and constantly unlike most people) getting a "snapshot" of traffic so I know if say some idiot comes into my lane, I just know that I can change lanes (or not) without having to look and it's saved me from a few accidents.

Real simulators can actually teach you how to do something and simulators are really just super specific video games recreating basically all the feedback you would actually get. Sure, everyone sorta has that mental/confidence type block where you don't feel you can actually do something until you do it for real regardless of how many "practice" hours you have under your belt or how prepared you are. But once you gain that "experienced" confidence after doing something for real a few times, then those simulator hours really can translate into real experience that you can draw from basically. It's sorta like someone explaining a board game, you'll still need a couple rounds of play to "get it" before the explanation yields results.

 

[Addendum_Forthcoming]

What I'm saying and what you're saying are 2 different things, that's why I got annoyed. I'm saying video games will impart very specific things that can HELP you fully learn something faster vs you're saying video game can't teach you how to FULLY drive a motorcycle [or be a survivalist] properly, which I never claimed. Did racing games teach me how to drive a car completely? No, but they did teach some things that are important to driving a car. The knowing what to do in a skid has to be instinctual, I think playing racers helped in making that instinctual. I also actually drive a certain way because of shooter games of all things. In shooters, I constantly use the radar and where my teammates are to get a "snapshot" of the battlefield and get a really good sense where enemies can and can't be. When I spawn in for example, the 1st thing I do is look at where my teammates are and more importantly aren't, and I fill-in where there is a possible hole in our defensive line because map control is crucial. When I drive I constantly look in my mirrors (I actually use the side mirrors properly [http://www.escapistmagazine.com/forums/read/18.943011-Poll-How-many-of-you-have-your-cars-side-mirrors-set-properly?page=1] and constantly unlike most people) getting a "snapshot" of traffic so I know if say some idiot comes into my lane, I just know that I can change lanes (or not) without having to look and it's saved me from a few accidents.

Real simulators can actually teach you how to do something and simulators are really just super specific video games recreating basically all the feedback you would actually get. Sure, everyone sorta has that mental/confidence type block where you don't feel you can actually do something until you do it for real regardless of how many "practice" hours you have under your belt or how prepared you are. But once you gain that "experienced" confidence after doing something for real a few times, then those simulator hours really can translate into real experience that you can draw from basically. It's sorta like someone explaining a board game, you'll still need a couple rounds of play to "get it" before the explanation yields results.

Well I respectfully disagree. In fact as per my motorcycle example I would posit pretension of knowledge can be more dangerous than no knowledge and accepting thst fact without hubris. I would also posit that as per those motorcycle games, it will still take me just as long to teach someone who hasn't played them as opposed to someone who has to safely handle a motorcycle.

What's more, the belief and pretension of prior knowledge may even inculcate the wrong ideas about the subject matter that could quite easily bite one in the arse.

Like my example of how orienteering and a total lack of magnetic declination adjustment will kill you in certain situations. If a person has zero idea how to read a map and compass merely attempts to attract attention... will more likely survive staying close to their vehicle and builds a fire or sets up a makeshift flags with a rock pointers to their general location in a 1km radius about them, and uses the vehicle as cover... the simple fact they have a comfortable, unexposed bed that is off the ground means they won't freeze to death at night. Compare that to a person who has played "survival" games and assumes maps work as if they do in their video games.

There is only a small chance that that magnetic declination may not matter locating a spring or bore, or some form of outpost. There is a far, far, far greater chance that it does matter ... and suddenly you're lost and exposed.

My money is on the person who recognizes they should stay put, not the person who thinks they can read a map without professional instruction and research and decides to trundle off gormlessly.

Those simulators work because they have instructors ... instructors that teach them theory and protocol. Instructors that understand who is truly a good pilot or not, and can tell a trainee pilot where exactly they're fucking up. And that is going to take just as long as anyone with merely pretension.

If you don't have that, all you have is pretension of knowledge...

 

[Phoenixmgs_v1legacy]

Well I respectfully disagree. In fact as per my motorcycle example I would posit pretension of knowledge can be more dangerous than no knowledge and accepting thst fact without hubris. I would also posit that as per those motorcycle games, it will still take me just as long to teach someone who hasn't played them as opposed to someone who has to safely handle a motorcycle.

What's more, the belief and pretension of prior knowledge may even inculcate the wrong ideas about the subject matter that could quite easily bite one in the arse.

Like my example of how orienteering and a total lack of magnetic declination adjustment will kill you in certain situations. If a person has zero idea how to read a map and compass merely attempts to attract attention... will more likely survive staying close to their vehicle and builds a fire or sets up a makeshift flags with a rock pointers to their general location in a 1km radius about them, and uses the vehicle as cover... the simple fact they have a comfortable, unexposed bed that is off the ground means they won't freeze to death at night. Compare that to a person who has played "survival" games and assumes maps work as if they do in their video games.

There is only a small chance that that magnetic declination may not matter locating a spring or bore, or some form of outpost. There is a far, far, far greater chance that it does matter ... and suddenly you're lost and exposed.

My money is on the person who recognizes they should stay put, not the person who thinks they can read a map without professional instruction and research and decides to trundle off gormlessly.

Those simulators work because they have instructors ... instructors that teach them theory and protocol. Instructors that understand who is truly a good pilot or not, and can tell a trainee pilot where exactly they're fucking up. And that is going to take just as long as anyone with merely pretension.

If you don't have that, all you have is pretension of knowledge...

Again, you're not getting what I'm saying. I'm not saying a racing game is going to teach you how to drive a car/motorbike. I'm not saying a survival game is going to teach you to be a survivalist. I'm saying that games impart minor skills that do indeed help in learning other various real life things. My shooter example of using the radar much like I use my car's mirrors translated game skill into something usable in real life. It's those little things that do end up really helping you learn something or just be better overall at something that you wouldn't think is necessarily a one-to-one relationship. It's not like anybody plays a shooter and thinks they're a Navy Seal. I don't know where you are getting this idea that gamers play some game and think they can do that specific thing they do in the game or that I'm actually saying anything close to that. There's lots of foundational skills that are required to do lots of different things, which can be improved/worked-on regardless if you're doing it at work/school, during your free/hobby time, or in a game. There's been several studies showing the benefits of playing certain types of video games.

 

[sXeth]

There's obvious soft skills to be learned. Greater visual awareness (though you're applying that to a completely different situation in a completely different way, unless your car mirrors have radar screens on them), hand eye co-ordination, better reaction times, multitasking aptitudes, potentially even some math or systemic organizational skills in the right sort of game.

But the OP's analogy was some pretty specific hard skills, and your own example was also a specific hard skill braking a car out of a skid. Reaction times, and co-ordination, and whatever bit of desensitization to adrenaline you might have from games is going to help with that, but only at the most basic of levels. And none of thats directly correlated to the type of game, or even games in general. You could practice sports, do a dance recital, be a carpenter, or numerous other hobbies that would enhance similar skills.