Gaming Journalists Make No Damn Sense

[CaitSeith]

Maybe YouTubers would be less likely to "stick it" to the games journalists if they believed that games journalists were actually passionate about gaming

You do realize that most people that write about games ARE passionate about games?

That's pretty much independent on what Youtubers believe. Besides that game journalist don't have a way to change Youtubers' beliefs, "sticking it" to games journalist is an effective way to get views and likes, so, I can't see the gap getting mended in the near future.

 

[Houseman]

Besides that game journalist don't have a way to change Youtubers' beliefs

I think they can. All they need to do is stand up to other "journalists" and peers accountable for the garbage they publish. But according to Nick, they're all afraid of getting "canceled". Seems like the only people unafraid to lose their industry jobs are the people that don't have industry jobs.

But yes, unfortunately, the gap will not be mended anytime soon

 

[CaitSeith]

I think they can. All they need to do is stand up to other "journalists" and peers accountable for the garbage they publish.

Do Youtubers held other Youtubers' accountable for their garbage? Because garbage is lucrative in Youtube as much (if not more) than in journalism.

EDIT: Besides, something ending up garbage has little to do with being passionate about something.

 

[Nick Calandra]

I think they can. All they need to do is stand up to other "journalists" and peers accountable for the garbage they publish. But according to Nick, they're all afraid of getting "canceled". Seems like the only people unafraid to lose their industry jobs are the people that don't have industry jobs.

But yes, unfortunately, the gap will not be mended anytime soon

It's not just getting cancelled that's the scary part. Like, I'm not at all concerned about losing my job if I were to stand-up to them (and I have, which is why I'm on their shitlist. I can be vocal on Twitter when I want to be, and I have written articles calling Kotaku specifically on their bullshit when they were whining about getting blacklisted after leaking Fallout 4), but you have to understand that a lot of these folks have very large followings of people, and once you're on their radar, it's hard to get off. So it's not so much about career viability, as much as dealing with that person and the angry mobs that come with dealing with them. In essence, protecting your own mental health.

The echochamber becomes a shield for them. So yea, you COULD stand-up to them and call them on their shit, but what's it gonna solve? Nothing besides adding more toxicity. The only viable solution is to create better content and treat people right and let the people that want to constantly be assholes online fester in their own negativity and fade into obscurity.

 

[Houseman]

Do Youtubers held other Youtubers' accountable for their garbage?

Yep. That's commonly called "drama". I've even done it myself. Look how many videos there are calling Extra Credits out when they do a silly.

 

[CriticalGaming]

snip

Nick, this has nothing to do with the subject of this thread but, I wanted to point out how cool it see to see an admin actually active and interacting on the forums again. It's really cool, even if we might butt heads So thank you for that.

 

[Houseman]

but you have to understand that a lot of these folks have very large followings of people, and once you're on their radar, it's hard to get off. So it's not so much about career viability, as much as dealing with that person and the angry mobs that come with dealing with them. In essence, protecting your own mental health.

I can understand that, especially when your real name is out there. Unlike a pseudo-anonymous YouTuber, you can't hide behind a username.

So yea, you COULD stand-up to them and call them on their shit, but what's it gonna solve? Nothing besides adding more toxicity. The only viable solution is to create better content and treat people right and let the people that want to constantly be assholes online fester in their own negativity and fade into obscurity.

I think it would solve the reputation problem, for one.

Think what would happen to the perception of the police if they started calling out their own on their bad behavior instead of covering up for them? If the whistleblowers weren't persecuted?

A "good cop" that "doesn't get involved" and "keeps his head down" while his peers extort, harass, threaten, frame, and murder others is seen as complicit for letting this continue to happen. "It's not my problem" he says, while his partner plants drugs on a suspect.

There's a cycle happening here, where people are hostile to others because others are hostile to them. If anyone can mitigate the perception that journalists are hostile towards gamers (putting up clickbait is seen as hostile) by holding them accountable, then it would end the cycle of toxicity you speak of. Youtubers would stop dunking on your well-meaning authors because they will start seeing your authors as well-meaning.

But maybe you're right. Maybe "being the change you want to see" is the way to change the industry for the better. But I doubt it.

 

[Nick Calandra]

Nick, this has nothing to do with the subject of this thread but, I wanted to point out how cool it see to see an admin actually active and interacting on the forums again. It's really cool, even if we might butt heads So thank you for that.

Ha, not gonna lie it boggles my mind how a lot of other websites interact with their audiences. It's always seems to be hostile. I just don't operate like that. I'm fine getting in debates with my readers and talking about subjects like this. I don't view anyone as lesser for it, even if I disagree or detest what they say.

I'm always down to interact long as things stay civil.

 

[CaitSeith]

Yep. That's commonly called "drama". I've even done it myself. Look how many videos there are calling Extra Credits out when they do a silly.

So, you have a channel? tbh, I don't think answering garbage by producing even more garbage is accountability in any definition.

 

[Houseman]

So, you have a channel? tbh, I don't think answering garbage by producing even more garbage is accountability in any definition.

Two, kinda. But they're dumb and not worth sharing.

And it depends on your definition of garbage. To me, I consider criticizing other videos is a valuable service.
I don't see this video as garbage, for instance:

 

[TheMysteriousGX]

I think it would solve the reputation problem, for one.
...
There's a cycle happening here, where people are hostile to others because others are hostile to them. If anyone can mitigate the perception that journalists are hostile towards gamers (putting up clickbait is seen as hostile) by holding them accountable, then it would end the cycle of toxicity you speak of. Youtubers would stop dunking on your well-meaning authors because they will start seeing your authors as well-meaning.

But maybe you're right. Maybe "being the change you want to see" is the way to change the industry for the better. But I doubt it.

I mean, gamers are still bringing up "that one time Dean Takahashi was bad at Cuphead for a while on the third day of a trade show and wrote an article about how good Cuphead looked" as a knock on games journalism as a whole. Been years now.

If that's all it takes to create a permanent reputation problem, it ain't the journalists that need to change.

 

[Houseman]

I mean, gamers are still bringing up "that one time Dean Takahashi was bad at Cuphead for a while on the third day of a trade show and wrote an article about how good Cuphead looked" as a knock on games journalism as a whole. Been years now.

If that's all it takes to create a permanent reputation problem, it ain't the journalists that need to change.

Yeah, that's why real journalist outlets hold themselves to a high standard, because they know a gaffe like that could ruin their reputation for decades. Is it fair? Probably not, but what it is, is human nature.

In a perfect world, the group that should change, would be expected to change. But I don't think that's practical for our imperfect world. To illustrate, which group do you think is easier to change, hundreds of games journalists, or a virtually unlimited number of gamers?

 

[TheMysteriousGX]

Yeah, that's why real journalist outlets hold themselves to a high standard, because they know a gaffe like that could ruin their reputation for decades. Is it fair? Probably not, but what it is, is human nature.

In a perfect world, the group that should change, would be expected to change. But I don't think that's practical for our imperfect world. To illustrate, which group do you think is easier to change, hundreds of games journalists, or a virtually unlimited number of gamers?

One single misstep, being bad on camera once, is not a thing that can be "fixed". Everybody is going to make A Mistake. And if that's all it takes for games journalists to Permanently Cancel somebody, that's...

I mean, that's super toxic. Why're you advocating that? Like, if I get a gig writing about games, and I mention that the first goomba in stage 1-1 ends me one time in four, does that mean I don't get to report on games ever again, lest I give an excuse for Gamers to dogpile my colleagues for a decade?

 

[Houseman]

One single misstep, being bad on camera once, is not a thing that can be "fixed".

That's why editors exist: to at least give a once-over and give the approval before it goes out the door.
And even reputable news sources mess up, even with editors. Then they issue a retraction, correction, and an apology and hopefully learn from their mistakes.This is what real journalists do. It protects their integrity and credibility.

Nothing of the sort happened with the Cuphead example. This gives the impression that VentureBeat (Dean Takahashi's employer) doesn't give two figs about whether or not their journalists know how to play games or not. They don't care about having standards. They don't care about having passion for games. That's what this example tells us.

You seem to be framing it as "What?! If you make ONE MISTAKE then you're done forever? That's ridiculously unreasonable and there's absolutely no defense against that!" Yes, that would be 'super toxic', but that's not how it really is. That's not what I'm advocating. That's a strawman.

It's more like this: "What?! People like this are writing about the games we're so passionate about? This is ridiculously unreasonable and we demand better!"

And we can't just examine this one example in a vacuum and pretend it's solely responsible for the gamers vs journalist war. It's just one example out of a sea of similar examples.

 

[Avnger]

That's why editors exist: to at least give a once-over and give the approval before it goes out the door.
And even reputable news sources mess up, even with editors. Then they issue a retraction, correction, and an apology and hopefully learn from their mistakes.This is what real journalists do. It protects their integrity and credibility.

Nothing of the sort happened with the Cuphead example. This gives the impression that VentureBeat (Dean Takahashi's employer) doesn't give two figs about whether or not their journalists know how to play games or not. They don't care about having standards. They don't care about having passion for games. That's what this example tells us.

You seem to be framing it as "What?! If you make ONE MISTAKE then you're done forever? That's ridiculously unreasonable and there's absolutely no defense against that!" Yes, that would be 'super toxic', but that's not how it really is. That's not what I'm advocating. That's a strawman.

It's more like this: "What?! People like this are writing about the games we're so passionate about? This is ridiculously unreasonable and we demand better!"

And we can't just examine this one example in a vacuum and pretend it's solely responsible for the gamers vs journalist war. It's just one example out of a sea of similar examples.

Yeah, that's why real journalist outlets hold themselves to a high standard, because they know a gaffe like that could ruin their reputation for decades. Is it fair? Probably not, but what it is, is human nature.

In a perfect world, the group that should change, would be expected to change. But I don't think that's practical for our imperfect world. To illustrate, which group do you think is easier to change, hundreds of games journalists, or a virtually unlimited number of gamers?

I am so confused how you can write out these posts and not, in all seriousness, have your "Hans are we the baddies?" moment.

I mean I guess it's at least being said out in the open finally, but it's still just a tiny bit shocking to no longer have it be hid behind half-truths that dance around it. All of the complaints about "cancel culture" and "political correctness" were never anything more than projection for your own wants to establish a true cancel culture based on your own version of being "politically correct."

 

[Houseman]

I am so confused how you can write out these posts and not, in all seriousness, have your "Hans are we the baddies?" moment.

I mean I guess it's at least being said out in the open finally, but it's still just a tiny bit shocking to no longer have it be hid behind half-truths that dance around it. All of the complaints about "cancel culture" and "political correctness" were never anything more than projection for your own wants to establish a true cancel culture based on your own version of being "politically correct."

I don't know what you're talking about. What sort of "true cancel culture" do I want to establish? What is my version of being "politically correct"?

 

[fOx]

That's pretty much independent on what Youtubers believe. Besides that game journalist don't have a way to change Youtubers' beliefs, "sticking it" to games journalist is an effective way to get views and likes, so, I can't see the gap getting mended in the near future.

I can't speak for others, but I kind of wonder if there's a kind of weird class warfare thing going on. Some journalist, and some youtubers, seem to see each other as a threat. Old vs new media. I know that's obviously not true for everyone, and there can be an overlap between the two fields, but sometimes one definitely seem to have a disdain for the other.

 

[Dreiko]

I am so confused how you can write out these posts and not, in all seriousness, have your "Hans are we the baddies?" moment.

I mean I guess it's at least being said out in the open finally, but it's still just a tiny bit shocking to no longer have it be hid behind half-truths that dance around it. All of the complaints about "cancel culture" and "political correctness" were never anything more than projection for your own wants to establish a true cancel culture based on your own version of being "politically correct."

See, this is the thing with those neologisms.

You are using the term literally in this post, but you are ignoring the fact that it isn't being used literally elsewhere. It's a thing of convenience you do. A rhetorical trick.


Not everything being cancelled is "cancel culture". What you're looking for there is the term "meritocracy". We don't wanna cancel journalism, we just wanna fire the bad journalist and hire a better one. We want a certain amount of talent to be present so that they can befit the terms they use to describe themselves.


Same deal with political correctness. It isn't POLITICALLY correct to expect a gaming journalism to be competent at games, (I've done better at games I was playing moments before I fell asleep with my controller in my hands and had people taking pictures of me), no, that's just REGULAR correctness. Political correctness is what you're doing, "ignore the fact that this person is shit, you must treat them like they're better than you, because they're the journalist and you're the neckbeard!". That's literal political correctness, the opposite of what we seek (actual correctness).


Also, this cuphead guy recently uploaded (and then took down) a video of himself playing doom and he could not get past a basic area that required you get over a chain. He was stuck jumping around platforms and falling in lava for over 10 minutes. Was he streaming from a con that time too?


I mean, look at this lol.

I can't speak for others, but I kind of wonder if there's a kind of weird class warfare thing going on. Some journalist, and some youtubers, seem to see each other as a threat. Old vs new media. I know that's obviously not true for everyone, and there can be an overlap between the two fields, but sometimes one definitely seem to have a disdain for the other.

Journalists tend to badmouth youtubers for having less expertise, mostly because they're eating their lunch rather than due to actual real reasons. This invites analysis of their comparative expertise, which often doesn't go well for them.

But yeah I'm sure some youtubers are cynical about it. Like, I don't need you to make 50 videos about that fallout online game, I checked out on that game the moment it was announced it was gonna be online cause I have a functioning memory and can remember their elder scrolls online game lol.

 

[fOx]

See, this is the thing with those neologisms.

You are using the term literally in this post, but you are ignoring the fact that it isn't being used literally elsewhere. It's a thing of convenience you do. A rhetorical trick.


Not everything being cancelled is "cancel culture". What you're looking for there is the term "meritocracy". We don't wanna cancel journalism, we just wanna fire the bad journalist and hire a better one. We want a certain amount of talent to be present so that they can befit the terms they use to describe themselves.


Same deal with political correctness. It isn't POLITICALLY correct to expect a gaming journalism to be competent at games, (I've done better at games I was playing moments before I fell asleep with my controller in my hands and had people taking pictures of me), no, that's just REGULAR correctness. Political correctness is what you're doing, "ignore the fact that this person is shit, you must treat them like they're better than you, because they're the journalist and you're the neckbeard!". That's literal political correctness, the opposite of what we seek (actual correctness).


Also, this cuphead guy recently uploaded (and then took down) a video of himself playing doom and he could not get past a basic area that required you get over a chain. He was stuck jumping around platforms and falling in lava for over 10 minutes. Was he streaming from a con that time too?


I mean, look at this lol.

Journalists tend to badmouth youtubers for having less expertise, mostly because they're eating their lunch rather than due to actual real reasons. This invites analysis of their comparative expertise, which often doesn't go well for them.

But yeah I'm sure some youtubers are cynical about it. Like, I don't need you to make 50 videos about that fallout online game, I checked out on that game the moment it was announced it was gonna be online cause I have a functioning memory and can remember their elder scrolls online game lol.

While the cup head video was infamously bad, in his defense, I'm sure it's not fun having an audience of people waiting for you to mess up again, so they can mock you all over you tube and social media. I've made embarrassing bad mistakes in games, but didn't have a camera on me. Though one does question why he would then upload it.

 

[Dreiko]

While the cup head video was infamously bad, in his defense, I'm sure it's not fun having an audience of people waiting for you to mess up again, so they can mock you all over you tube and social media. I've made embarrassing bad mistakes in games, but didn't have a camera on me. Though one does question why he would then upload it.

Thing is, you're not streaming to people while bearing the name and reputation of being a journalist. You're just a dude. If this guy presented himself as just a dude who is not to be treated any differently than you or I, there'd be no need to showcase his failings thus.