Gary Oldman Slams "Political Correctness," Calls Dark Knight Movies "Work"

[WWmelb]

After reading the article and interview, i really think as often is the case, his comments have been kind of misrepresented here on the escapist.

He really didn't defend Mel Gibson's comments, but his right to say them, and attacked his attackers for being hypocrites.

No, that's not what he did. What he did was call JEWS hypocrites in that scenario. Specifically. He specifically said that Jews run Hollywood, and its the fault of the Jews. And then he compared it to Jews using "Kraut" as an insult. Beyond that being rare as hell, unlike antisemetism, when did the Jews kill 6 million of Gibson's people? Never you say? So even if some old Jew says Kraut as an insult, we tend to let it slide because of history (likely his/her family or themselves were victims of Nazis) and the fact that the Germans are hardly a vulnerable people what with being one of the strongest countries in the world militarily and economically. So don't give me that, you are completely misrepresenting what he said to make it more palatable.

"So they persecute. Mel Gibson is in a town that?s run by Jews and he said the wrong thing because he?s actually bitten the hand that I guess has fed him?and doesn?t need to feed him anymore because he?s got enough dough. He?s like an outcast, a leper, you know? But some Jewish guy in his office somewhere hasn?t turned and said, ?That fucking kraut? or ?Fuck those Germans,? whatever it is?"

The fact that he then goes on and uses the old "everyone's racist" line does not absolve him of what he said specifically in relation to the Gibson case.

And the spin you put on this is just as bad.

Here is the WHOLE Paragraph

"Alec calling someone an F-A-G in the street while he?s pissed off coming out of his building because they won?t leave him alone. I don?t blame him. So they persecute. Mel Gibson is in a town that?s run by Jews and he said the wrong thing because he?s actually bitten the hand that I guess has fed him?and doesn?t need to feed him anymore because he?s got enough dough. He?s like an outcast, a leper, you know? But some Jewish guy in his office somewhere hasn?t turned and said, ?That fucking kraut? or ?Fuck those Germans,? whatever it is? We all hide and try to be so politically correct. That?s what gets me. It?s just the sheer hypocrisy of everyone, that we all stand on this thing going, ?Isn?t that shocking?? [smiles wryly] All right. Shall I stop talking now? What else can we discuss?"

Yeah, how he phrases things is insensitive, but that seems to be kind of his point.

Anyway, you started your quote from the article at a point where he was talking about Alec Baldwyn, who insulted someone with a pretty bland but insensitive insult, then cut the quote off halfway through, and finished it with your own interpretation of what he said, not his actual words.

He said everyone's a hypocrite but when it sells to do so they'll stand on they're soapboxes and act like it's the end of the fucking world.

And you know what? He's not far off there about society in general.

I'm not defending him either by the way, a lot of his comments left a really bad taste in my mouth, but, you know what? i get where he is coming from. He's pissed off at having tiptoe around everyone and act all PC all the time, for the hypocritical masses who will jump on anyone for anything, when.. in all seriousness, MOST people have fucking said something stupid/insensitive/hurtful in their lives, but won't forgive it of anyone else.

Oh and seriously

So even if some old Jew says Kraut as an insult, we tend to let it slide because of history (likely his/her family or themselves were victims of Nazis) and the fact that the Germans are hardly a vulnerable people what with being one of the strongest countries in the world militarily and economically.

I'm sorry that doesn't fly with me. Yes the holocaust was fucking tragic, and we all wish it never happened, however.

Racism isn't a pissing contest. "I've been more persecuted than you in the past so it's A-OK if i'm a bigot towards a nationality.

I don't accept that.

Like i said, he old Gary comes off as a prick in this interview, but dear god do i find it refreshing reading an interview like that isn't just all smiles and PC responses and movie plugs.

The man's human, and not the most likable one, but definitely a real one.

If I say that Vanilla is a joke of a flavour and anyway all ice cream is bad, I am attacking vanilla in specific even if I make a sideways comment about all ice cream. I can't believe that you don't see that.

And wait, if your parents were murdered in the Holocaust you wouldn't be angry for the rest of your life? The only Jew I've ever seen make a comment like Oldman is talking about is over 60, and you do realize the Holocaust happened 70 years ago right? You can't just ignore that people who have suffered are going to be angry. What does Gibson have a right to whine about? He and his people have NEVER been persecuted. Germans have never been persecuted against either, they, like the British and White Americans, were the ones doing the persecuting against Jews, against gays, against blacks (go read about what happened in Namibia). The strong who have abused their positions cannot turn around and whine that people are angry with them.

And yes, you can compare the suffering from discrimination for black versus white people in the US. Black people have it worse. If you can't compare suffering from discrimination in some cases, then you are choosing to be blind.

The man is human, so is every single human being you meet. Many of them aren't antisemetic, in fact I hope and believe that most aren't.

I don't care if you agree with me or not, by the way, but at least try to see it from the perspective of someone Jewish (which is what I give you here). This has nothing to do with being PC. Carlin wasn't PC. Louis CK isn't PC. However, they weren't PC AND not antisemites/bigots, so what they said never came off as antisemetic or antigay or antiblack, etc. to the majority of the people in those groups.

I don't think we are even having the same conversation.

I wasn't talking about jewish people in particular. I, personally, was talking about society at large.

And yes, actually, do believe people need to not take ANY anger in the form of prejudice or bigotry out on a race or nation of people, because of the actions of others who happen to be a part of that race / nationality / religion.

I certainly understand, even if i can't personally relate, to jewish people being angry .. anyone having been through similar being angry, but i certainly don't think it's going to fix anything, it could in fact, make things worse.

I still stand that this article came off making gary oldman seem way more crazy and bigoted than the article did. I also would say, as i did, that Mr Oldman came across as a bit of a prick, and insensitive, but i don't think he came across homophobic or antisemitic. Mel Gibson on the other hand did.

I didn't take his comments as "jews make racist comments towards white people, so it's okay if white people do too". What i took him saying was "Nearly all people have been assholes and said stupid shit at some point, you shouldn't cruicify someone for one stupid outburst". But yes he did it in an insensitive way.

I also don't think calling someone a "fag" in anger makes you a bigot towards homosexuals. Insensitive and thoughtless maybe, but not bigoted.

I'm tired and rambling and it's bed time.

 

[JimB]

On the chance that Mr. Chipman should be reading this thread, I'd like to address him directly for a moment.

Mr. Chipman, I am a fan of your work. I have defended you vociferously and at length in the past, though my defense has had much less to do with my fandom than with my personal understanding of fairness; I thought you were being treated unfairly in the fights have participated in. Despite the impersonal nature of my advocacy for you, though, the fact of my appreciation for your work remains, which I guess I'm bringing up as kind of a CV, or maybe to provide context for what I'm about to say:

I am disappointed by how you have chosen to write this article. I think your summary of it is irresponsibly inaccurate and sensationally misleading, and the only thing preventing me from calling it downright dishonest is that I want to believe you really do think Mr. Oldman's point about Mel Gibson is a defense of antisemitism rather than about what he seems to perceive as hypocrisy (and to be fair to you, I'm not sure he has a leg to stand on there since he won't describe any specific person condemning Mr. Gibson for racism being racist himself, but I will be charitable and assume he's being discreet). Reading the full Playboy article and then reading yours, I am struck with the impression that yours was written in a moment of kneejerk outrage, as if you were muttering to yourself, "Oh, he said Jews run Hollywood, he's such a douche."

Ultimately, I have no way of knowing if my impression of Mr. Oldman's message is more accurate than yours. I very well could be wrong. I just think your article's lack of context is a very bad misstep, and one that I am saddened to see you make. I know for a fact you can do better, sir, because I have seen you do better so many times before, and I hope your next article will allow me to smile in relief and say, "Ah, that one about Gary Oldman was just him stumbling a bit; happens to all of us; let's move on."

 

[ex951753]

Is Bob working for Fox News? The amount of misinformation in this article baffles me...

 

[Casual Shinji]

You mean to tell me actors see their work as just 'work'? Work they sometimes don't even like?

Scoundrels!!!

 

[Trishbot]

I think everyone is taking a lot of what he said out of context (Bob included), because cherry-picking things someone said in an article framed by the context of a discussion of political correctness is bound to misrepresent the intent. Everyone needs to just chill a bit. Everyone.

"Everyone?"

It's like if Bob only used part of Patton Oswalt's twitter rants:
http://www.dailydot.com/lol/patton-oswalt-two-part-tweets/

 

[razer17]

Holy crap. This article takes so much stuff out of context it's a joke. For instance, he say's he doesn't like himself as Sid Vicious, and that's why he doesn't watch Sid and Nancy. That's a little odd, but if he's a perfectionist and doesn't think he was good enough, that's his opinion.

Honestly though, did this go through an editor? And they just let him write whatever he wanted?

 

[theApoc]

I guess I shouldn?t complain. I?ve learned over the years that people get upset when they tell you something is their favorite movie and you go, ?Really? You liked that piece of shit?? That?s the sort of thing Sean Penn would say. So I now tell people, ?Thank you, that?s great,? and move on.

That says quite a bit about Gary Oldman. Yeah, he feels the banal work he has done, the stuff that appeases the masses is silly, but he has learned to not denigrate their opinions or fandom, unlike the self-righteous left some of us so despise.

There is nothing overly provocative in that article. There IS a double standard. The media is pushing it's OWN agenda. Left/Right, Liberal/Conservative, the whole system is set up to manipulate the masses, convince them of what is and isn't acceptable, as if there is a certain level of celebrity/power/influence that gives someone the right to make that decision for others.

We live in a world where people aren't really allowed to disagree with the heard. It's silly, and pointless. If you think he said something bad in this article, I'm sorry, but you are doing it wrong...

 

[theApoc]

Is Bob working for Fox News? The amount of misinformation in this article baffles me...

You mean MSNBC/CNN/FOX...

And this article is almost as bad as his stupid rant about changing the gender of established characters.

 

[KoudelkaMorgan]

One thing that always gets me, is how many Jewish people the average anti-Jew person believes there to be. I've seen admittedly weird and probably not entirely accurate surveys that ask people that admit to being racist against Jews how much of the population in the world is actually Jewish and they across the board quote numbers WAAAAAAAAAAY higher than there really are. As in some of them believe the world is as much as 18% Jew, when in reality it is (iirc) less than .5%.

These people hate Jews so much that they actually created around a half billion of them to be the source of all their own personal woes.

When people say ____ is run by the Jews, do they have a long list of names of these people? Have they witnessed the Hebrew hierarchy in action, as it goes about determining the fates of everyone down to the lowliest aspiring valet or waitress that dreams of stardom? Like some straight up Clothos/Lachisis/Atropos shit?

Did their daddys and grandaddys, tell them "true" accounts of how these OBVIOUSLY Jewish, and no doubt stereotypically correct legions of men would just go around tossing bags of gold Scrooge McDuck style at any non Jew that got in their way until all of California was under their control?

Do people not get how stupid they sound when they allow shit like that to issue forth from betwixt their lips?

Jews control Israel, and they are only really causing problems if you live in or around it and they are far from the only group doing so. Its kind of a universally accepted passtime, handed down for generations with no end in sight. (sarcasm)

In case its not immediately clear, I am not against any group. I believe we are all made of the same stardust and more to the point we all have to live on this planet. To harbor a grudge against people you haven't even met, just because their 248th cousin 1200 years ago stole your ancestor's sweetroll is something I have never understood.

I've hated people before, most notably my stepdad back before he ditched us many years ago (easily in my top 5 happiest days ever, no joke). But I hated them as individuals, for quantifiable reasons,but I didn't take it a step further and hate their parents. I didn't go around perpetuating the same cruelty and be a general failure as a human like them.

Trust me, if the people these guys hate actually had all the power that they rant about we would probably all be aware of it and the world would be a much different place. I would imagine bullying and the teen suicide rates of certain groups of people would fall dramatically, among many other things both good and bad. The same as if ANY group of people have all that alleged power over "the rest of us."

Now, I'm a fan of Oldman. I have in no way seen ALL his work but I have seen many of his films and I applaud his performances in each. My opinion of him is in no way diminished or heightened. If anything, my already low opinion of Bob Chipman has taken a small hit.

I would also like to know Oldman's opinion on his roles in Lost in Space and The Professional. I also wonder how common it is to give a NINE HOUR interview, to anyone, let alone Playboy unless you are being questioned by the police.

PS. I used be a fan of Mel Gibson. As a kid one of my favorite movies was Conspiracy Theory. I had such a crush on Julia Roberts, and I liked his character Jerry. I can't actually name another movies of his I liked though off the top of my head. While I obviously disagree with his comments, towards women in particular, I haven't sat and listened to all of them. I don't know the context of every line, the parties involved etc. I only know what I have heard from the news etc. Even if he really was the giant racist dick he was made out to be, I don't agree with having him ostracized. People say things in the moment that they regret all the time.

No, I believe in ostracizing him for the same reasons as Charlie Sheen, for totally being a crazy degenerate who is a danger to himself and others. For being someone that has repeatedly acted violently towards others, abused substances legal and otherwise, and generally been a total asshole to everyone around them.

I believe in ACTIONS rather than words as grounds for us not to give a shit about your career anymore. It harder to take some of those out of context and hide behind a spin doctor.

Yet, somehow, Lindsey Lohan and Justin Beiber haven't been locked away/deported indefinitely yet for their long list of crimes. Those damn celebrities run Hollywood! rabble rabble

 

[Baresark]

He is just a guy with his own opinions. I share that opinion (though I never word it so) about Nancy Pelosi. Useless. Lots of actors have done the whole, "Hollywood run by Jews" routine. Saying by Jews is a bit misleading, but all the Hollywood money is about pandering to this political belief or that one. Hollywood is ridiculously liberal and has very little wiggle room for anyone who is not. He is mostly smart by keeping to himself. But, other actors have gotten the blacklist for being conservative. I'm not really surprised he is not a fan of a lot of his previous works. People seem to be butthurt by the fact that he isn't a fan of the Dark Knight movies. But that is just it. That is most actors and actresses. A lot of what they do is just work to them. For example: I really liked the 2004(?) Punisher movie with Thomas Jane. He pulled that off really awesome. In an interview he was like, "I wouldn't want to play that part again, but if they wanted to pay me to do it again, I would" (paraphrased). It was just work to him.

But, no one should be surprised that a person has hard opinions on things that are not popular. World views are strange things and influence people in ways that simply cannot be predicted. I can see his disdain for Hollywood. It misrepresents so much by the virtue of what it is. Just this morning I was reading an article in the new issue of Scientific American that talked about how Obama's belief that income inequality as a huge issue is just not true. You can't get much more popular opinion than Obama when it comes to a great many things. People eat that shit up. When someone as powerful and popular as Obama confirms peoples beliefs, they just become harder to convince about reality. Hollywood does the SAME thing. They market a lot of it as "fiction", but everyone knows by now that it will influence people all the same. Ridiculous movies about environmental disasters just solidify people's beliefs about environmental issues. Movies about bad politicians solidify people's beliefs that all politicians are liars, when the reality is that all people are liars to one extent or another, no worse or better than any politician.

Ugh, I'm rambling.... Look what you did to me Gary Oldman!

 

[Spaceman Spiff]

IF I'm reading this right, Mr. Oldman isn't a fan of today's over-political correctness or the media/social knee-jerk lynchings of everyone who doesn't conform to said PCness(heh). I might have just gained even more respect for him. I can't wait to read the actual(non-cherry-picked) article once I can click a NSFW link.

captcha: maple syrup.

Careful Captcha, somebody might think that's racist.

 

[KoudelkaMorgan]

That seems to be the correct way to read it, yes. I'm more interested in the rest of the interview that wasn't picked. I wonder what other overblown sensationalist agendas we can run with in there.

captcha: Shrimp Taco (not really)

 

[JarinArenos]

Oldman's manager has released the following

from https://twitter.com/GO4Everyone/

I do love the complaints about misrepresentation, followed by a misrepresenting sideswipe at RDJ for "defending Mel Gibson". For the record, Downey never defended Mel's rant, he only asked for forgiveness instead of eternal blacklisting. Likewise, Foster made some uncomfortable-sounding supportive comments about a "complicated" long-time friend, while supporting a new movie of hers. Neither defended his ranting in any way.

 

[Sigmund Av Volsung]

I wonder if the article is lacking some details.

I am seeing Gary Oldman yelling racist slurs whilst masturbating at this point. I mean, backing Gibson, f***ing hell.

Separating the artist from the work has just gotten x10 more difficult :/

 

[SlightlyEvil]

Frankly, I'm most offended by the idea that anyone could enjoy the idiotic tirades of Charles Krauthammer.

 

[Scott Rothman]

He said "In a town run by Jews"

That doesn't fly no matter how you spin it

 

[Geo Da Sponge]

Okay, so the article kinda blows things up a bit. But it's pretty darn hard to not appear anti-semitic when you start talking about stuff being "run by jews", because that's starting to shift into weird territory which, gee whiz, sounds pretty bad.

But the big thing I disagree with is him talking about the hypocrisy of political correctness. I dislike these kinds of arguments in general, since they tend to lean on making assumptions about other people's thoughts and actions when you don't actually know them. And even if some people are being hypocrites about it, that's their fault, not a problem with the idea of political correctness.

Okay, so nobody's perfect, everyone does something bad once in a while, but if you're willing to accept that you fucked up then it's not hypocrisy. Plus, two wrongs don't make a right anyway, so vaguely mentioning that other people do bad things doesn't defend someone else doing bad things. Although Gary Oldman's manager claims he was never defending Alec Baldwin or anything like that, but he would say that wouldn't he, because he doesn't want to create a colossal shitstorm.

Oh this is a serious shake the head moment.

People are already blacklisting the man, for a Fox news worthy mis-interpretation of an interview, and people wonder why people say the SJW movement is completely out of control and needs to be shut down as soon as possible.

A group that has the potential power to destroy peoples careers just by being loud enough, whether they have a good reason to be angry, or whether they do not. Desperately needs to be stopped.

"Mr. Oldman, we need to speak to you. Now we know you're an Oscar nominee, and you've won dozens of other awards, and you're basically one of the most successful and popular actors of all time... But we're going to have to drop you from this project. You see, some people got angry on the internet."
- Said no producer ever.