Gay characters in children's cartoons

[SovietX]

I dont really care if they have Gay characters in cartoons, but im pretty sure that the target audience (Young Children) really dont know about sexual orientation and I dont think it matters if theres a lack of homosexual characters in their programming. Perhaps introducing Homosexuality when they are old enough to understand attraction and social interaction.

 

[warprincenataku]

I grew up with Bert and Ernie and I turned out just fine. *twitch twitch*

 

[TheMarshall]

I find it disgusting that including more gay characters in children shows just for the sake of "broadening their perspective" is even being considered. What will a straight child gain from watching a gay character, other than disgust at the thought of two boys mating? What does this "tolerance" mean, and where will it end? Can we keep this "tolerance" from devolving into acceptance of gay sex just to experiment? Tolerance of gays can remain what it is now: non-discrimination with regards to job opportunities and respecting their private life. Making homosexuality more "acceptable" even to kids? Hell no.

 

[Anjel]

Personally I disagree with gay couples adopting for that very reason. It's not about whether the parents can love the child, or the child can love the parents - it's the fact that society isn't ready for it yet (i.e bullying).

Thats very sad. To deprive someone the chance to raise a child and be a loving parent because someone else isn't ready for it? You've got those priorities backwards, my friend. Let's work on getting people to stop treating others like crap, not on depriving people of a family because we've given up on the former.

I totally agree, but let's do it BEFORE we put kids into difficult situations that could lead to bullying.

You don't know what you are and don't care? But just a few posts ago were you not saying "we grow up expecting to be like everyone else - heterosexual." I understand you've not contradicted yourself as such, but it's toeing the line a bit..

I grew up assuming I was straight because, well, that's what's normal. It wasn't until recently I began to question it all. But in the end I don't care. Be it what it will.

And I respect that, but my point is you are basically accepting that you are just beginning to question it now, at 18-19 years of age? Past the age that 'the bulk' of people realise what they are (but not past the age that people 'come out' about their sexuality). So, with that in mind, are you just adopting the new interests or have they always been there and you just refused to consider them, effectively blocking them out? If it were the former then it sounds like my personal view may carry more weight than you previously admitted to, and that it is true that not all people are born with their current sexual preference.

 

[TheMarshall]

Personally I disagree with gay couples adopting for that very reason. It's not about whether the parents can love the child, or the child can love the parents - it's the fact that society isn't ready for it yet (i.e bullying).

Thats very sad. To deprive someone the chance to raise a child and be a loving parent because someone else isn't ready for it? You've got those priorities backwards, my friend. Let's work on getting people to stop treating others like crap, not on depriving people of a family because we've given up on the former.

You can't change bullying; it's a natural part of life and we've all been through it. You want to stop bullying in order to create more appropriate conditions for openly gay kids?

 

[Anjel]

I totally agree, but let's do it BEFORE we put kids into difficult situations that could lead to bullying.

Let's do it at the same time and stop treating homosexuals like aliens.

And I respect that, but my point is you are basically accepting that you are just beginning to question it now, at 18-19 years of age? Past the age that 'the bulk' of people realise what they are (but not past the age that people 'come out' about their sexuality). So, with that in mind, are you just adopting the new interests or have they always been there and you just refused to consider them, effectively blocking them out? If it were the former then it sounds like my personal view may carry more weight than you previously admitted to, and that it is true that not all people are born with their current sexual preference.

I never questioned my sexuality because I was never very sexual. I developed a crippling anxiety disorder and depression that resulted in suicide attempts, hospital stays and mental ward incarcerations. Sex was the last thing on my mind.

O.O

Christ.

You're back on your feet now, it seems? Good to hear, if so. And your argument now seems more valid, well done

 

[Ciaran Lunt]

making a gay character feels tapped on you have to make a short story arc to set it up. You dont do that to explain a guy being straight. I'm straight yet look up to people like alan carr because hes confident and witty i never think hed be a good role model if only he liked tits

 

[BiscuitTrouser]

Why quote me?

Quoted the other guy for those words, quoted you for a good response to my arguments, you seem to be making the best points, wanted to see what you thought of mine.

I just think people try and shoehorn every minority everywhere to call it equality, even in the silliest places, and in this case, a place where they physically cant be shown properly. Race is easy to show in a kids cartoon, you don't need any context, just put someone in from a different background. Sexuality is so far more complex, its a deep factor in the complicated psyche that is the human mind. Attempting to show this to children with shallow blocky characters is bound to be a failure and just confuse them by showing them an overblown facsimile of what being "gay" actually means.

The social and morale context of being gay, the previous hatred they have been shown, is a large part of understanding how to treat that group of people, that we need to try extra hard, despite some of our peers reactions, to remember we need equality.

Even if biologically being gay might not seem to make sense to some people we need to push that aside and treat them equally anyway. Some people think gays are biologically abnormal. And thats fine. Thats an opinion, one actually not based on ignorance or irrational hatred of any individual. Instead of showing kids everyone loves everyone all the time, it makes more sense to show them that yes, there is hate, hate we might never remove, but we need to deal with it and live our lives. But we cant do that to small children. It doesnt make sense.

A better idea would be to have kids shows continuously ram home being nice to everyone regardless of who they are and then introduce the concept of sexuality at an older age.

 

[Dexiro]

I think you guys are over shooting this. Being straight is biologically normal. Should we not present that as a norm? Yes, homosexuality is a part of life, but we dont need to stuff it into entertainment for the hell of it. Especially a kid's show. If a kid is going to be gay, let them find that out for themselves instead of doing it because this character from this show is gay.

Edit: Plus, i dont want to have to explain ANYTHING about sex to my children. Keep it simple.

You don't need to explain anything about sex - explain about love.

Also...

Being straight is biologically normal? Um, no. Homosexuality exists all throughout nature. Homosexuality is as biologically "normal" as heterosexuality.

Please don't make such ignorant and offensive statements.

I never said it was bad. Homosexuality is just not normal, it is somewhat rare compared to hetrosexuality. Would majority/minority be better wording?

What you're saying then really is that our shows should just be packed full of straight white people. Adding some diversity into our entertainment isn't a bad thing, at the very least it prepares kids for the real world rather than keeping them in a little bubble of what's considered "normal".

 

[TheMarshall]

What you're saying then really is that our shows should just be packed full of straight white people. Adding some diversity into our entertainment isn't a bad thing, at the very least it prepares kids for the real world rather than keeping them in a little bubble of what's considered "normal".

What's wrong with straight white people? What does diversity in a children show have to offer anyway? And that "bubble" you so delightfully make fun of, is actually what children should learn in the first place: 1) Homosexuality is a divergence from the norm 2) You don't need to question your sexuality as many brainless liberals preach 3) Follow your own path, know what you are and live your life accordingly, regardless of what social engineering liberals have in the works.

 

[Farseer Lolotea]

Quoted the other guy for those words, quoted you for a good response to my arguments, you seem to be making the best points, wanted to see what you thought of mine.

Ah, I see. I thought you were actually accusing me of calling people backwards, bigoted, and such. (I think I may have used the word "privileged," but that was about it.) So I apologize for snapping at you.

I just think people try and shoehorn every minority everywhere to call it equality, even in the silliest places, and in this case, a place where they physically cant be shown properly. Race is easy to show in a kids cartoon, you don't need any context, just put someone in from a different background. Sexuality is so far more complex, its a deep factor in the complicated psyche that is the human mind. Attempting to show this to children with shallow blocky characters is bound to be a failure and just confuse them by showing them an overblown facsimile of what being "gay" actually means.

The social and morale context of being gay, the previous hatred they have been shown, is a large part of understanding how to treat that group of people, that we need to try extra hard, despite some of our peers reactions, to remember we need equality.

Even if biologically being gay might not seem to make sense to some people we need to push that aside and treat them equally anyway. Some people think gays are biologically abnormal. And thats fine. Thats an opinion, one actually not based on ignorance or irrational hatred of any individual. Instead of showing kids everyone loves everyone all the time, it makes more sense to show them that yes, there is hate, hate we might never remove, but we need to deal with it and live our lives. But we cant do that to small children. It doesnt make sense.

A better idea would be to have kids shows continuously ram home being nice to everyone regardless of who they are and then introduce the concept of sexuality at an older age.

You've got some good points here, admittedly. I don't agree on everything, but even so.

But as I've stated before, heterosexuality (if presented in an oblique, chaste manner) seems to be considered a perfectly acceptable topic for kids' shows (at least those aimed at preteens, anyway) already. I see no reason why presenting gay characters in a similar manner (in shows aimed at that same age group) would necessarily require either any stereotyping or any sort of "Aesop."

 

[Dexiro]

What you're saying then really is that our shows should just be packed full of straight white people. Adding some diversity into our entertainment isn't a bad thing, at the very least it prepares kids for the real world rather than keeping them in a little bubble of what's considered "normal".

What's wrong with straight white people? What does diversity in a children show have to offer anyway? And that "bubble" you so delightfully make fun of, is actually what children should learn in the first place: 1) Homosexuality is a divergence from the norm 2) You don't need to question your sexuality as many brainless liberals preach 3) Follow your own path, know what you are and live your life accordingly, regardless of what social engineering liberals have in the works.

I'm strongly against this viewpoint. Subjecting kids to one "normal" group of people has absolutely no benefits, you're teaching kids that they have to be one specific way to be considered normal, and it's also the same thinking that causes kids to be bullied because they don't conform to this normality and people don't know how to deal with it.

Yes kids will follow their own path in life, but by subjecting them to more diversity you're increasing their tolerance towards people who follow different paths.

 

[EuZic]

What you're saying then really is that our shows should just be packed full of straight white people. Adding some diversity into our entertainment isn't a bad thing, at the very least it prepares kids for the real world rather than keeping them in a little bubble of what's considered "normal".

What's wrong with straight white people? What does diversity in a children show have to offer anyway? And that "bubble" you so delightfully make fun of, is actually what children should learn in the first place: 1) Homosexuality is a divergence from the norm 2) You don't need to question your sexuality as many brainless liberals preach 3) Follow your own path, know what you are and live your life accordingly, regardless of what social engineering liberals have in the works.

I agree with your last 2 points, however growing up knowing your sexuality isn't considered "norm" can be a really traumatizing experience. More on that in a minute

I see people talk about the fact that children don't have an idea about what sexuality is, and I'm sorry to say that sadly for all of you who think that, it's just wrong.

There are a lot of cartoons (just think of all the Disney films) that show heterosexual people falling in love and finding true love, etc. That's sexuality, even if you don't actually see the characters have sex.

No one says it's inappropriate and for good reason. Children relate to that. I'm not saying that gay characters should be shoved down peoples' throats or even be as flamboyant as the usual straight audience sees them. It's not about pride, or about forcing children to accept extreme behaviours. It's just that by introducing well constructed gay characters in mediums like cartoons can help children have a broader sense of normality. It's a good lesson, indifferent of your sexuality.

And finally, the whole - gay not norm - thing puts me off greatly, as people do not realise that sexuality is this intricate blend of ingredients (social life, personality, education, context, etc) unique to each and every one of us.

OK, if we look at the numbers, of course the odds are in favor of heterosexuals, but most of those heterosexuals have homosexual tendencies, just as gay people have heterosexual tendencies, even if they choose not to act on them. And I'm not saying this in a "you're all gay" way. Anyone who takes this that way is an idiot

Just think about pansexuals, people who have no notion of gender when it comes to choosing life partners and implicitly, the people they fall in love with. If falling in love with the core being of a person, regardless of the "package" that person comes in isn't a beautiful thing about being human, I don't know what is.

And if we wanna go colonize space and become a galactic civilization eventually, we gotta get over the notion of abnormal sexuality, as long as all individuals taking part in it are happy with the fact.

 

[cobra_ky]

What you're saying then really is that our shows should just be packed full of straight white people. Adding some diversity into our entertainment isn't a bad thing, at the very least it prepares kids for the real world rather than keeping them in a little bubble of what's considered "normal".

What's wrong with straight white people? What does diversity in a children show have to offer anyway? And that "bubble" you so delightfully make fun of, is actually what children should learn in the first place: 1) Homosexuality is a divergence from the norm 2) You don't need to question your sexuality as many brainless liberals preach 3) Follow your own path, know what you are and live your life accordingly, regardless of what social engineering liberals have in the works.

1) who cares?
2) not sure what liberals you've been talking to, most i know would say you can question your sexuality, not that you need to.
3) ok, what if you're homosexual? how are you supposed to "know what you are" when people go out of their way to keep you from learning that gay people even exist?

 

[Mxrz]

Why the flying fuck would you want any kind of sexuality element in a children's cartoon?

 

[EuZic]

Why the flying fuck would you want any kind of sexuality element in a children's cartoon?

Grrr cuz cartoons are already infused with sexuality

 

[TheMarshall]

I'm strongly against this viewpoint. Subjecting kids to one "normal" group of people has absolutely no benefits, you're teaching kids that they have to be one specific way to be considered normal, and it's also the same thinking that causes kids to be bullied because they don't conform to this normality and people don't know how to deal with it.

Yes kids will follow their own path in life, but by subjecting them to more diversity you're increasing their tolerance towards people who follow different paths.

I think the notion of normality needs to be upheld at all costs. If it makes some gay kids get bullied at school, it's a part of their growing up and they should learn that normality is heterosexuality, that they're different and the social norms subject them to some logical discrimination, and that they should subscribe to normality in their social, but that they can do whatever they want in their private bedroom. I don't think normality is a bad thing. It's what keeps humanity from degenerating.

And finally, the whole - gay not norm - thing puts me off greatly, as people do not realise that sexuality is this intricate blend of ingredients (social life, personality, education, context, etc) unique to each and every one of us.

Sexuality is not variable. Genetics sometimes births deviations, the deviations in themselves should not be given normality status.

OK, if we look at the numbers, of course the odds are in favor of heterosexuals, but most of those heterosexuals have homosexual tendencies, just as gay people have heterosexual tendencies, even if they choose not to act on them. And I'm not saying this in a "you're all gay" way. Anyone who takes this that way is an idiot

Please explain. I do not have any homosexual tendencies, and neither do most heterosexual people.

Just think about pansexuals, people who have no notion of gender when it comes to choosing life partners and implicitly, the people they fall in love with. If falling in love with the core being of a person, regardless of the "package" that person comes in isn't a beautiful thing about being human, I don't know what is.

Are you seriously suggesting that another deviation like "pansexualism," whatever the hell that is, should be put to daylight? Falling in love is great, yes, but the pleasure of falling in love can't possibly be the core of human civilization.

And if we wanna go colonize space and become a galactic civilization eventually, we gotta get over the notion of abnormal sexuality, as long as all individuals taking part in it are happy with the fact.

Galactic civilization is impossible. Sci fi talk.

If we go over the fact that heterosexuality is normal, then there will, involuntarily, appear half-brained nihilists who want to experiment anal sex even though they don't have anything in common with the practice. Homosexuals should be aware of their deviance and live life like any person, but they need to acknowledge that there is such a thing as normality and that the bullshit plaguing this forum thread is nothing but quasi-nihilist PC babble.

 

[TheMarshall]

3) ok, what if you're homosexual? how are you supposed to "know what you are" when people go out of their way to keep you from learning that gay people even exist?

If you're homo, you know it deep inside. If you're not, you know it deep inside. If you know you're not homo, but a retarded society insists that you MAY BE, this will undoubtedly affect kids and society is in for a long road down degeneration avenue.