Gay Marriage and AIDS

[Thaluikhain]

Heterosexual pairings rarely result in HIV spreading, only a fraction more than that of lesbian pairings, in any case.

That's not what I've been led to believe.

As to your second remark: this is very far from that, because I never said anything about "banning" homosexuality. It's just a thought.

Oh, I understand that, it's just that the idea comes with a lot of unwanted baggage.

 

[Grey Day for Elcia]

Heterosexual pairings rarely result in HIV spreading, only a fraction more than that of lesbian pairings, in any case.

That's not what I've been led to believe.

As to your second remark: this is very far from that, because I never said anything about "banning" homosexuality. It's just a thought.

Oh, I understand that, it's just that the idea comes with a lot of unwanted baggage.

True. Kind of sad that a topic of great importance (AIDS and HIV aint no joke) is marred by backwards zealots.

 

[bobmus]

There is no guarantee that these people would adopt the pattern of frequent casual sex which is likely to spread STIs.

A) is that mentality common among gay people? B) if it is, wouldn't that continue for the newly outed homosexuals? I mean, gay men are statistically more likely to contract AIDS and HIV, so wouldn't more men embracing their sexuality and coming out of the closet mean they are exposing themselves to a infamously infectious community? It would be nice if we could simply assume people would use condoms, but sadly AIDS exists because people aren't wearing them, especially among the poor and the homosexual.

I think you're overestimating the importance of marriage. Gay people (from my experience) are already looking for love just as much as heterosexual people who can already marry. It suddenly being legal wouldn't, in my opinion, make anyone who wasn't already going to be part of a committed relationship suddenly want to.

A: It's common, in the same way lots of heterosexual people want to not be monogamous and just hook-up randomly.
B: As I said, people who would only come out because of gay marriage being legalised are likely to be less confident in their sexuality, and therefore less likely to enter this scene. Some will, but as I said, the overall effect would be negligible.

I never said it would be a big thing, just that a few people would be inspired to look for love in light of new laws on tolerance.

 

[Grey Day for Elcia]

I never said it would be a big thing, just that a few people would be inspired to look for love in light of new laws on tolerance.

Do you think anyone who places so much importance on a legal title that before they could be married they didn't even want a monogamous relationship, is the kind of person of whom we could expect a fifty-year marriage?

I honestly don't think a single homosexual man or woman would suddenly become monogamous because they can one day walk down the isle. Maybe I'm blinded by my personal bias, but from my experience, the only gay people I've met that want to get married, are already committed to one another and have had their own commitment ceremony (I think that's what it was called).

I really should have another look for some statistics on this stuff. To Google!

 

[Grey Day for Elcia]

No!

Hell no!

Sorry, I didn't quite catch your position on the matter

But seriously: thanks for your opinion. You've given me a lot to add to my Google research list.

 

[Grey Day for Elcia]

A lot of what we think about AIDS and the like is due to the moral panic that occured during the 80's about it. The term "Gay Plague" was common throughout that timeperiod. We are only starting to move on.

In all fairness, it was something of a plague within the gay community. Heterosexual people certainly became infected too (and still do) but due to lack of condom use and the much greater risk of infection via anal sex than vaginal or oral, homosexuals were, for a brief time, plagued.

Also: you called your sister genderless but use female words to refer to her. Why is that? I consider myself neither male nor female, but take on either role as the mood strikes me. Is this the case with her? If I might ask, of course. None of my business.

 

[DoPo]

This topic

Spoiler: NEEDS MORE SMBC

Anyway, I really doubt the HIV infections would suddenly rise if gay marriage is legalised.

Yes, but wouldn't more general acceptance encourage more open behavior? For example, if playing D&D became "cool," wouldn't the people who pay D&D do it more and more openly? Wouldn't people who have thought about it, but never done it, also feel brave enough to give it a go? Many people fear "coming out" or even acting on their feelings at all. Gay people are still beaten, abused, disowned and murdered, sadly.

What do you mean? D&D is cool, you know...OK, not that cool. But yeah, after all, that wouldn't cause a sudden and sharp increase in mass homosexual orgies or anything. It would be a gradual increase. Besides, it's even easier to prevent AIDS if you're being open about it. So any of the people to come out after, will have the benefit of not only being accepted more, but being better informed. Common fucking sense[footnote]Yes, precisely![/footnote].

 

[Skratt]

I'm going to bite even though this is a close running second for silliest question of the year award.

See here is the thing....

They are still having sex even though they aren't married....

Thread over, there isn't much more that can be said past this.

 

[Grey Day for Elcia]

I'm going to bite even though this is a close running second for silliest question of the year award.

See here is the thing....

They are still having sex even though they aren't married....

Pretty much this.

Once again GDFE shows a lack of common sense. You do realise people who are married will only have 1 partner so they will be much less likely to be infected among other things?

Oh dear, you mustn't have read the OP. I actually stated several times that the actual marriage isn't the issue. If you had read, well, you'd know that.

Also: you think the ability to be legally married makes a difference to people? Not like committed gay couples exist now, right? "Oh, I can now legally marry? Guess I'ma only have one partner, 'cause I slept around all the time before." Lol. Heterosexual people can marry and none of them ever have sex out of wedlock, have an affair or get a divorce, huh? Nope.

Come now. If you're going to comment in a topic, at least take the time to read the OP like everyone else.

 

[Grey Day for Elcia]

This reduces the chance of infection for that proportion of people compared to now where there is no marriage at all.

That's right, there is no marriage. And? You trying to suggest gay couples don't stay together now? They need a marriage license to form a committed relationship? I can't wait to see you try to backflip on that one. You couldn't have stuck your foot in your mouth any harder, lol.

Think about what you say before you say it, please.

Also, again, this ins't about the marriage. If you really did read, you would see that mentioned several times already.

 

[Grey Day for Elcia]

I did read the OP, including the hilarious "I'm bi so my opinion is valid", it smacks of "I have a black friend so I'm not racist".

Actually, I didn't say I was bi. I said a lot more than that.

"I'm not against homosexuality (my gender is about as liquid as water, I'm bisexual and my primary attraction is to transgender females, lol) and think gay marriage should be allowed from sheer common sense. I'm just wondering if this sort of increase would occur."

But hey, if you can't argue, try to lie, right? Lol.

 

[Bara_no_Hime]

**snip**

Actually, greater acceptance and openness would NOT increase the rate of HIV spreading. Here's why.

Secrecy = more HIV.

Acceptance = more open dialogue = less HIV.

Right now, there are still many gay and bisexual men who hide their preference, only to sneak out and engage in highly risky behavior.

It isn't gay relationships that spread HIV - it's gay one-night-stands.

People will always have casual sex, but when you're having secret casual sex, you're far less likely to take precautions or ASK your partner about their HIV status. The openly gay community has gotten pretty good about checking with new potential partners about their condition, but the closeted community either doesn't KNOW to ask, or doesn't feel comfortable asking.

Either way, bringing homosexual relationships further into accepted human society can only help the issue by reducing secrecy and encouraging stable long-term relationships.

Also, since you brought it up Gay Marriage - the last time I checked, the Constitution's 14th Amendment (of America, the only place I can really argue about) says that "No State shall make or enforce any law which shall abridge the privileges or immunities of citizens of the United States; nor shall any State deprive any person of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law; nor deny to any person within its jurisdiction the equal protection of the laws." (US Constitution [http://www.usconstitution.net/const.html#Am14]) Denying homosexual couples the right to marry makes them second class citizens, and that is forbidden under the stipulations of the 14th Amendment of the Constitution. Thus any State where gay-marriage is not already legal is in violation.

So yeah, not only is your hypothesis absurd, but any laws banning gay marriage are blatantly unconstitutional.

Edit: Oh, and since you just mentioned that you are part of the gay/bisexual community and are pro-gay marriage, then good - I'm extra glad I gave you that quote and link then. More ammo for you to use in the future. And if anyone brings up this HIV argument, you can use my post (and the posts of others in this thread) to give them a good smacking down.

 

[King of Asgaard]

One begets the other, but I won't say which.
OT: I think that if there is a change, it wouldn't be very noticeable.

 

[Aprilgold]

id think marriage would encourage monogamy so less spreading?

at least i would think so.

Well were more open to aids because Sex can happen more often.

This reduces the chance of infection for that proportion of people compared to now where there is no marriage at all.

That's right, there is no marriage. And? You trying to suggest gay couples don't stay together now? They need a marriage license to form a committed relationship? I can't wait to see you try to backflip on that one. You couldn't have stuck your foot in your mouth any harder, lol.

Think about what you say before you say it, please.

Also, again, this ins't about the marriage. If you really did read, you would see that mentioned several times already.

He probably didn't mean what you said, because that sounds like your just randomly guessing at what he means. If gay marrige was legal, homosexual sex along with lesbian sex could be taught, allowing for safer love-making.

----------- ------------------ --------------------- ---------------------- -------------------

I don't think that people are overlooking the fact that Gay Marriage doesn't need to happen for gay sex, and that gay sex doesn't mean instant HIV. Also realize that, if Homosexual Sex is actually taught in classrooms, people will be better informed so STI's and HIV's will drop in numbers.

 

[Grey Day for Elcia]

lies

Funny that you snipped the bit after that, you know, where I say "I said a lot more than that." But hey, you were too busy trying to prove a purposeful misconception.

If you're gonna flat out lie and attempt (and fail) to create straw men... I dunno. Try harder?

This isn't about marriage.

*looks at thread title*

Gay Marriage and AIDS

Oh really...

Oh dear, you did it again--skimmed the surface and made a silly billy of yourself.

Here you go, as you seem to be having a lot of difficulty reading and understanding some of the words, I'll give you the important part: "The theory being that the de-demonizing (totally not a word, but whatever) of homosexuality and the awareness of a more general acceptance would cause more men (and women) to openly express themselves and feel less trepidation about embracing their sexuality. Given that homosexual sex, namely anal sex, due to the thin walling of the anus cavity, has a much greater likelihood of small tears and blood leakage forming than vaginal or oral sex, more gay sex would indeed pertain to more incidents, yes?"

And again: "Wouldn't more general acceptance encourage more open behavior? For example, if playing D&D became "cool," wouldn't the people who pay D&D do it more and more openly? Wouldn't people who have thought about it, but never done it, also feel brave enough to give it a go? Many people fear "coming out" or even acting on their feelings at all. Gay people are still beaten, abused, disowned and murdered, sadly."

You see how that works? Marriage isn't the point; the effect of marriage is the point. It being more socially acceptable to be gay would encourage gay men who live in the closet to "come out." Now, we know for a fact that AIDS/HIV is more prevalent in the gay community than the hetero community, so more people "coming out" and entering the gay community would mean... Yes! More people exposing themselves to a higher chance of contracting AIDS. The entire point, which you breezed over in your attempt to paint me as anything but supportive of gay rights and marriage, is just how much of an increase in AIDS and HIV cases would there be?

You're welcome

 

[dyre]

I'm going to bite even though this is a close running second for silliest question of the year award.

See here is the thing....

They are still having sex even though they aren't married....

But what about all those "no sex before marriage" homosexuals? We need to keep them apart by banning gay marriage so they never have sex and get AIDS D:

 

[dyre]

Your concern [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Troll_%28Internet%29#Concern_troll] has been noted.

That's interesting...I never knew that was a real thing, but OP fits the category perfectly

 

[Something Amyss]

I was thinking, given that it is a sad reality that homosexual men are much more likely to have and in effect pass on HIV/AIDS

Actually, the highest risk group is blacks, especially black women.

Do you feel banning black marriage is worth discussing?

 

[Grey Day for Elcia]

I was thinking, given that it is a sad reality that homosexual men are much more likely to have and in effect pass on HIV/AIDS

Actually, the highest risk group is blacks, especially black women.

Do you feel banning black marriage is worth discussing?

Um, who said anything about banning anything? Did you make an assumption? You did! Naughty.

Remember: read the OP before commenting. "Note: I'm not against homosexuality (my gender is about as liquid as water, I'm bisexual and my primary attraction is to transgender females, lol) and think gay marriage should be allowed from sheer common sense. I'm just wondering if this sort of increase would occur."

 

[spartan231490]

Not really. Legalization of gay marriage isn't going to affect the number of homosexual individuals, and frankly, monogamous homosexuals have only a slightly higher chance of having HIV than monogamous heterosexuals, so if anything, legalizing gay marriage might reduce incidences of HIV/AIDS by increasing the number of long-term monogamous pairings between homosexuals(though I doubt it would have any effect at all).