I am sincerely hoping this is the start of a career downturn for these talentless juvenile hacks. The sooner people like them and (*gag*) tosh.0 go away the happier I will be.
Gay Superman Gets Universal Horror Nights Bill and Ted Canned
- Thread starter Karloff
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Yeah, this is a bit problematic.
I suppose if the act somehow used the stereotype to its advantage somehow, like subversion, then it could be funny in the hands of some decent writers.
But if the punchline is simply "Superman is gay," then it's going to offend people because they're the butt of the joke for simply being who they are.
Reminds me of this:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZKtGXd_C4EY
I suppose if the act somehow used the stereotype to its advantage somehow, like subversion, then it could be funny in the hands of some decent writers.
But if the punchline is simply "Superman is gay," then it's going to offend people because they're the butt of the joke for simply being who they are.
Reminds me of this:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZKtGXd_C4EY
I gotta be honest, I don't really get the offense here.
"Modern Family" is considered by most to be an excellent depiction of a gay couple (Mitchell and Cameron), but both of them often act in stereotypically effeminate ways. Same with characters from "Will and Grace", "Glee", and "The New Normal".
Ok yes, it is, at its core, stereotyping, but when stereotyping is very clearly utilized in a joking manner (as it is here) I find it significantly less damning.
"Modern Family" is considered by most to be an excellent depiction of a gay couple (Mitchell and Cameron), but both of them often act in stereotypically effeminate ways. Same with characters from "Will and Grace", "Glee", and "The New Normal".
Ok yes, it is, at its core, stereotyping, but when stereotyping is very clearly utilized in a joking manner (as it is here) I find it significantly less damning.
The only reason I'm not offended by this is that it was written TO BE offensive. And thats why i think that there isn't a massive outcry against it. Because people understand that the goal of this was the be offensive to be funny. Not that i agree thats the best way to be funny
It is protected under free speech, the guy above is wrong. However,no speech is protected in the private sector. Free speech only means that the government cannot limit your speech, but your employer certainly can. And it doesn't even have to involve work, an employer can fire you if you write racist rants on your own free time as well as if you do it at work. This is where you've ALWAYS been by the way, it hasn't just now come to it. An employer has to make a decision, will this hurt or improve my bottom line, and act accordingly.Doopliss64 said:
Easy, here are the reasons:Ihateregistering1 said:
1. First of all, the whole "turning gay" or "turning straight" thing is already offensive. I hope you can see that without me explaining it.
2. Turning gay actually weakens superman. Being gay does not make Mitchell a worse lawyer, or Cameron a worse dad.
3. Cameron and Mitchell are complete and complex characters. Do you think its offensive to show a black person be good at basketball and speak in ebonics? No, but if he has no other characteristics then all he is is a one note cardboard cut out of a human being built up of stereotypes.
4. As someone above mentioned, the whole Takei being gay therefore Sulu is IS offensive. It basically says that gay actors make their characters gay. This has been a huge and complex issue in the acting community, especially in plays. Here is something from a little while back: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Newsweek_gay_actor_controversy
5. Will and Grace, by the way, was in fact criticized by parts of the gay community for promoting stereotypes, but I think that they were generally good role models and that some of the community (like some in the Jewish community, as I am a Jew) overreact.
6. Lastly, I'd imagine a gay superman as far more a Will kind of gay then a Jack. Would turning gay actually suppress everything else that superman is? Undermining his all being and self? That sounds weird and offensive.
You just made my morning. Also, I hate you.DVS BSTrD said:
Ugh... I don't know how to feel about this. I'm not sure if someone legitimately thought that pulling all of these low-brow jokes would force people to laugh from its sheer awkwardness, or if there seriously a writer at Universal that is this inept.
1: Considering they turned Superman, a fictional character with fictional powers from a fictional planet, gay by putting fictional fairy dust on him, I think it loses a lot of the "oh well that parallels real beliefs!' idea.maxben said:
2: No, but doesn't it often depict them as being terrible at sports?
3: Cameron and Mitchell have an entire TV series to become complex characters, this (sounds like) a short skit, one in which they basically ignore any complexities of Superman in favor of quick humor.
4: Sorry, but anytime you have something that's clearly humorous and intended to be a parody, saying "it basically says" sort of loses its meaning.
5: I'll agree with the overacting part.
6: Only if you take seriously something that is very clearly not meant to be taken seriously.
I don't particularly care for this skit because it just sounds like lazy writing and cheap laughs, and there are few laughs that are cheaper than using established stereotypes for comedic purposes, but I just don't find it particularly offensive.
Well done, you were funnier than that entire depiction it seems.DVS BSTrD said:
OT: I'm not gay so my thoughts as to weather or not it's offensive are kind of mute but this doesn't seem outrageously bad just cheap, lazy bad.
Universal can afford better than this.
I think its unfair to say "I don't find it offensive therefore it is not offensive", so I assume you don't mean to say that. Comedy can be biting and ridiculous without being offensive, or at least offending a rather small group of affected people. Are you from any minority group? Because I feel like its often hard to explain such thing to people when they're not. It is often time really hard to take yourself out of your own circumstance and the way you see the world because of them.Ihateregistering1 said:
By the way, Cameron was a football player in high school
"I think its unfair to say "I don't find it offensive therefore it is not offensive","maxben said:
I never said anywhere that "it is not offensive", I only said that I don't find it offensive, and I don't understand the offense people take considering that so much other media has relied on using the "gay men are effeminate and unathletic" stereotype for cheap laughs without angering so many people.
"As someone above mentioned, the whole Takei being gay therefore Sulu is IS offensive"
THAT is declaring something offensive.
"Are you from any minority group? Because I feel like its often hard to explain such thing to people when they're not. It is often time really hard to take yourself out of your own circumstance and the way you see the world because of them."
'Any' minority group? Define minority. If I was black but I lived in Detroit, would I be a minority? If I was gay but lived and worked on Castro street, would I be a minority? If I'm a white and live in the US but I'm Jewish, am I a minority? How about a Hispanic living in El Paso? An Asian living in Chinatown? A Catholic living in the Southeast US? A white Muslim living in Texas?
First of all, the whole unathletic thing is an archaic stereotype a la black people and watermelon. Even if we are talking about dance, that is athletic. It is based on old assumptions about what men SHOULD spend their time doing, not based on the objective athletic value and the fact that gays were and are excluded from sports by the mainstream (think about recent comments from NFL players regarding playing with an openly gay teammate).Ihateregistering1 said:
Second, you would know if you were in a minority group because you and those you care about face discrimination and bigotry. My Jewish friend from Charleston South Carolina was told to find Jesus in her heart every week by coworkers. My muslim Saudi roommate in university drank every night because people were constantly talking about how his people are all terrorists. That is where you get the mindset of a minority, and when you hear such stories regularly from others in your group it solidifies the need for a strong community bond.
In that case then I have been a minority at multiple points in my life, where I was a minority there and faced bigotry, so, I guess I'm kind of a minority?? My point is how arbitrary the concept is of declaring oneself to be a "minority".maxben said:
'My muslim Saudi roommate in university drank every night because people were constantly talking about how his people are all terrorists.'
Not to be a jerk, but your roommate is aware that alcohol is strictly off-limits for Muslims, correct?
People are offended because gay rights is still a big struggle in america. While more and more states are legalizing gay marriage, there's still quite a lot of stupid people on there, including many who believe everything they see on tv (They hired steven seagal to train armed posses because apparently steven seagal can do that), and will then take those stereotypes and apply them to people.
So you'll end up with shit like "You're gay? Please don't start any random ballet or musical numbers and try to keep the celine dion down.". Then there's the fact that it pushes the idea that being gay is either a choice or some kind of satan magic.
Dumb people are influenced by this shit. That's why it's offensive, because it means that many more dumb people will take what they see on TV and generalize a large swath of people. And with generalization can potentially come dehumanization, and with that can sometimes come some very horrible things.
So you'll end up with shit like "You're gay? Please don't start any random ballet or musical numbers and try to keep the celine dion down.". Then there's the fact that it pushes the idea that being gay is either a choice or some kind of satan magic.
Dumb people are influenced by this shit. That's why it's offensive, because it means that many more dumb people will take what they see on TV and generalize a large swath of people. And with generalization can potentially come dehumanization, and with that can sometimes come some very horrible things.
I get where you're coming from, but the "well dumb people are influenced by this so we need to get rid of it" is a VERY slippery slope, because by that logic there's literally millions of things in media that you have to not portray because "dumb people are influenced by it and do dumb things", both related to stereotypes and not.Racecarlock said:
By that logic, you'd basically have to get rid of (or have gotten rid of early in their TV tenure):
Chappelle's Show
South Park
In Living Color
Jackass (and any of the spin-off shows)
The Shield
Friday Night Lights
Sons of Anarchy
24
Jersey Shore (hell, basically any reality show in which a person behaves much like a stereotype)
Will and Grace
The Big Bang Theory
Modern Family
and that's before you even get into movies and video games.
As someone who goes to Halloween Horror Nights Orlando I can say this:
Bill & Ted ream on people all the time. If anyone is unfamiliar with their work: they're two time-traveling slackers who have a stage show with special guests parodying whatever gained popularity that year.
What's surprising is that they normally keep it in character, where Superman doesn't really show any traits of homoeroticism in the new movie (grappling with Zod and tights excluded).
So yeah, surprising. I don't know if Hollywood does things differently, but ours always tell you to get out if you're easily offended.
Here's last year's. Enjoy!
Bill & Ted ream on people all the time. If anyone is unfamiliar with their work: they're two time-traveling slackers who have a stage show with special guests parodying whatever gained popularity that year.
What's surprising is that they normally keep it in character, where Superman doesn't really show any traits of homoeroticism in the new movie (grappling with Zod and tights excluded).
So yeah, surprising. I don't know if Hollywood does things differently, but ours always tell you to get out if you're easily offended.
Here's last year's. Enjoy!
