Gays and Homophobia

[UncertaintyPrinciple]

I'm strongly against gay acts because they go against Jesus.

I don't hate gays. I love them - just the same as I love any other person. However, I am against gay acts, such as marriage.

What of Jesus' teachings that you follow condemn Homosexuality? Do you base your opinion solely on your religion?

 

[bl4ckh4wk64]

I really couldn't care less about gay people/marriages. But, when they start complaining over a name and social security benefits, then it starts to annoy me. Let me put it in context. I'm from California, yet I voted to for that gay marriage ban. Why? Because they already have something in California that is almost exactly the same as marriage. It's called a civil union, and the only differences between marriage and civil union (besides the names) is that marriage gets you social security benefits and is recognized most, if not all, religions.

 

[UncertaintyPrinciple]

Because it's not unnatural for most girls to wear what is considered "boy clothes". Even though they are trying to say "Hey I'm a lesbian so what" which infuriates me just as much, it's not as noticeable, whereas a male wearing mascara and eyeliner and a too tight pink wifebeater with skinny jeans is.

So is your problem with Overly-femine gay men being that they are to different to what would "normally" happen in society but with Butch, tomboy lesbians it is not so uncommon for most women to look like that?

Basically.

It'd be hypocritical of me to say it doesn't bother me at all, it does. Just not as much.

Thank you for your help, I appreciate it

 

[Agayek]

It is your choice how much depth you want to go into, this thread is merely an intellectual discussion. The amount you want to contribute is up to you

I can't speak for the second item on his list, but the "Christian" stance is based on a number of scripture passages. I believe most of them are in the Torah, and the most prominent I want to say is in Deuteronomy specifically, but it's been ages since I last read them so I can't be sure. Essentially, this passage says that the followers of the holy law will stone anyone who "lays with a man as he would with a woman".

The funny thing about it is that it was most likely not even written as a primarily anti-gay measure. The vast majority of the laws in Abrahamic scripture (excluding Islamic versions, simply because I don't have enough exposure to them to know) were written as a way to protect and promote the group. For example, kosher foods were those things least likely to spoil and carry disease without refrigeration. It boiled down semi-complex quasi-scientific health guidelines to "Because YHWH said so".

I'm fairly certain the laws against homosexuality were put in place simply because gay couples cannot conceive, and if they do not produce children they are limiting the growth of their society (and their life expectancies were typically well under 50 years). Thus, being gay is bad "because God said so".

 

[UncertaintyPrinciple]

I really couldn't care less about gay people/marriages. But, when they start complaining over a name and social security benefits, then it starts to annoy me. Let me put it in context. I'm from California, yet I voted to for that gay marriage ban. Why? Because they already have something in California that is almost exactly the same as marriage. It's called a civil union, and the only differences between marriage and civil union (besides the names) is that marriage gets you social security benefits and is recognized most, if not all, religions.

But why can't Gays have the exact same as Straight couples, why do you believe there should be any discrepancy?

 

[The Rockerfly]

I'm a straight male but I support people who want to be in love with someone of their own gender. However I don't believe they should be allowed to adopt children because you need a balance between a male and a female as a child.

For example, if I have a kid with a girl and I just left one day, the child will be much more heavily influenced by a female and could potentially find it difficult to associate with people of the same sex. Having two fathers or two mothers could make it even worse.

 

[Agayek]

I really couldn't care less about gay people/marriages. But, when they start complaining over a name and social security benefits, then it starts to annoy me. Let me put it in context. I'm from California, yet I voted to for that gay marriage ban. Why? Because they already have something in California that is almost exactly the same as marriage. It's called a civil union, and the only differences between marriage and civil union (besides the names) is that marriage gets you social security benefits and is recognized most, if not all, religions.

To be fair, the legal benefits of a marriage are significantly better than those of a civil union.

Also, we've tried the whole "Separate but Equal" thing before. It didn't work so well then.

 

[X10J]

Were it only so easy. Its a mental disorder. I'm afraid that it's not quite as simple manning up. It's a trait disorder, biology, very rarely can personality traits be altered. While I'm not very expirienced on G.I.D. myself I'm not certain of any recorded cases of it being altered.

 

[Andrew Bohan]

It is your choice how much depth you want to go into, this thread is merely an intellectual discussion. The amount you want to contribute is up to you

I can't speak for the second item on his list, but the "Christian" stance is based on a number of scripture passages. I believe most of them are in the Torah, and the most prominent I want to say is in Deuteronomy specifically, but it's been ages since I last read them so I can't be sure. Essentially, this passage says that the followers of the holy law will stone anyone who "lays with a man as he would with a woman".

The funny thing about it is that it was most likely not even written as a primarily anti-gay measure. The vast majority of the laws in Abrahamic scripture (excluding Islamic versions, simply because I don't have enough exposure to them to know) were written as a way to protect and promote the group. For example, kosher foods were those things least likely to spoil and carry disease without refrigeration. It boiled down semi-complex quasi-scientific health guidelines to "Because YHWH said so".

I'm fairly certain the laws against homosexuality were put in place simply because gay couples cannot conceive, and if they do not produce children they are limiting the growth of their society (and their life expectancies were typically well under 50 years). Thus, being gay is bad "because God said so".

Off topic. It's a bit like 40 days and 40 nights being an old jewish hyperbole or "Honor your mother and father and your days will be long" from the 10 commandments. They harken back to a historical need to that group at the time. Sometimes the easiest way to deal with it is honestly to say something like god did it. It's a bit like "Do it or I'll fucking punch you" in essence. It's easier than going into a complex debate.

 

[JackKrauserFtw]

What I would like to know from this community is:

Who here is gay/lesbian/bi?
Who is against/for gays/lesbians/bi?
And why are you against/for gays/lesbians/bi?

This is not a chance to bash people due to there views and/or life choices. This is to gain understanding and insight, not start a flame war. Thanks for your help

P.S: I wasn't sure where to put this so there has been a repost, if this offends anyone I will remove it immeadiately

TBH, the day we stop labeling each other and just see each other as people is the day discrimination ends, it's best to just ignore it as illogical as that sounds, the more attention you bring to it the worse, not to mention if you start giving people special rights, then they are further distanced from what society considers normal. Its a very touchy area filled with black and white and all shades of grey and there is really no one answer. This is my view on people

 

[X10J]

In case no one got the real meaning of my last post, I'm not for OR against gays. I couldn't care less, actually.

What I AM against is gay males who persist in wearing clothing made for girls and talking with that BLOODY ANNOYING gay accent and swinging their hips and then getting all up in your grill for staring at them awkwardly.

See Kurt from Glee for an example.

THOSE types make me want to punch kittens, because they're basically saying "Yeah, I'm gay, what are YOU going to do about it?" which goes along with what I was saying earlier.

That is all.

It's possible that at least some of these people have gender identity disorder, that is that while their body is male their brain identifies as female, in which case they may not be trying to, for lack of a better phrase, throw their gayness at you, but are instead doing what comes naturaly to them.

I'm sorry if this sounds harsh, but then they need to man up and accept the fact that they're in whatever gender body they were born with, and that is how they'll remain unless they have enough money to have a transgenderal surgery. Crying about the fact that you weren't born a girl isn't going to change anything.

Were it only so easy. Its a mental disorder. I'm afraid that it's not quite as simple manning up. It's a trait disorder, biology, very rarely can personality traits be altered. While I'm not very expirienced on G.I.D. myself I'm not certain of any recorded cases of it being altered.

 

[X10J]

biology's tough.

 

[StBishop]

While it's not my post you quoted, I would like to say that I'm not a fan of homosexuality either. I like plenty of homosexual people but the act of homosexual sex is something I'm not a fan of. I wouldn't do it and don't want to see it, and thinking about it puts me off a little.
Does that make sence?

Now, I don't share Kimarous' view but I did share his lack of support for the gay community. I've always had gay friends (I just didn't always know they were gay) but I always felt that marriage was something that men and women do and that gay couples didn't need it, then earlier this year I realised that even though I may not necissarily want gay people to get married, doesn't mean they shouldn't be allowed to.
And since then I realised how much of a douche I was being, now I fully support gay marriage along with gay rights in general (as far as I'm aware the only discrepancy in my country is marriage and adoption laws.)

I think you'll find plenty of people who support gay rights think this too, they just don't say it because it can often be misinterpreted.

StBishop, what about homosexuality puts you off? Is it the idea of a same-sex relationship or intercourse and, if intercourse, is it only man-to-man, femal-to-female or both? And why did you feel that same-sex couples shouldn't marry?

I suppose I worded that wrong, I'm not put off by homosexuality, it's fine, I mean seeing people of the same sex staring lovingly into each others eyes, it's not off-putting as much as strange, like seeing a fish with legs walking on land.
I don't think it's bad, it's just so alien that I'm a little uncomfortable.

Where as homosexual couples kissing I'm fine with.

Now onto the same sex intercourse. I don't find lesbian sex offputting because I don't see it as sex. Does that make sence? I know it is sex to them, and probably everyone else in the world, but there's no penetration by genitalia, maybe that's why.
But if we took, say lesbian porn, I wouldn't be put off by that, nor would I be put off by gay (as in male only) porn. Because it's porn. Which is weird I know.

It's homosexual love-making that I don't really like (not dislike, just don't like) and I think it's that same, alien feeling.

Also, I think it's because if someone talks about say, oral sex, I think of what it would be like, and I don't really like the idea of performing oral sex on a dude. Same with if people talk about vasectomies, I feel like someone's talking about doing it to me, not plesant.

I don't really know why I was against same sex marriage. Maybe because I was afraid of change?
I can't explain it, and am a little embarrased of the fact that I was actually against it.
Perhaps it has to do with me wanting marrage to remain the way I saw it as a child?
My view of marriage was shaken alot by the circumstances of my parent's break up, and I feel like my mother's subsiqunet re-marriage is immoral and I was, and still am, very angry that she was married in a church, the state marriage didn't offend me but the fact that a preist sanctioned it is a pretty slanderous act in my mind.
Maybe that had a hand. Who knows?

Have I answered all of your questions?

EDIT: Having thought more about it, I remebered the realisation I had about 3 years ago that homosexuality isn't just, "Being attracted sexually to the same gender" it's "Being attracted to sexually and falling in love with the same gender."

I found that a shocking realisation and perhaps as I've only realised it pretty recently it's taking me longer to get use to it. I mean, I've always known that people can be attracted to the same sex, It was explained to me at the same time as the birds and the bees at about age 4 or 5 when my mum became pregnant with my sister.

The first time I saw two guys say "I love you" in a non-platonic way was at age 17 and it spun my head. I hadn't really thought about homosexuality all that much and it just hadn't occured to me.

Perhaps that's why I'm put off by same sex lovemaking.

 

[Lieju]

I'm fairly certain the laws against homosexuality were put in place simply because gay couples cannot conceive, and if they do not produce children they are limiting the growth of their society (and their life expectancies were typically well under 50 years). Thus, being gay is bad "because God said so".

Also at least when it comes to the New Testament times, it was also aimed at the Creeks, with their homosexual practises, as that was a rival nation/religion.

 

[Zechnophobe]

I have no problem with gays and lesbians. Its funny how people pick on homosexuals, but no one makes fun or necropheliacs, pedophiles, zoopheliacs, guro freaks, lolicon fans, scatolphelia, beastiality, and rapists.

...how is that funny?

People have nothing but scorn and disgust for the things you listed. I don't pick on people like that, I'd fucking kill them.

Now this is a much meatier topic. For the sake of argument, why would you 'fucking kill' a zoopheliac? It may not be something you want to do, but I don't exactly think it obviously a crime punishable by death. Same is true for most of the other things you listed.

 

[Mad World]

You forgot The Village People

In the navy, yes you can sail the seven seas...

Hmm?

What of Jesus' teachings that you follow condemn Homosexuality? Do you base your opinion solely on your religion?

Rom 1:26-27 states, "Because of this, God gave them over to shameful lusts. Even their women exchanged natural sexual relations for unnatural ones. In the same way the men also abandoned natural relations with women and were inflamed with lust for one another. Men committed shameful acts with other men, and received in themselves the due penalty for their error."

Jude 1:7 states, "In a similar way, Sodom and Gomorrah and the surrounding towns gave themselves up to sexual immorality and perversion. They serve as an example of those who suffer the punishment of eternal fire."

My religion is why I am against homosexual acts, yes. Man was meant to be with woman. Simple as that. To go further, ONE man and ONE woman. I am against polygamy, too.

 

[tetron]

In a way I would say I'm against gays/lesbians, because they should be bi(Why limit yourselves ?)

So by your logic EVERYONE should be bisexual, and that's just not going to happen, because sexuality isn't a choice. That's something that everyone (homophobes in particular) needs drilled into their skull.

No not by my logic, by my words everyone should be bisexual. It's less a matter of logic and more a matter of...making things more fun for me.(I consider an attractive straight guy, or lesbian girl, to be a waste.) Although I suppose instead of bisexual I should say pansexual, because really why should gender matter when it comes to making love ?

 

[MrGalactus]

Live and let live. gays should be able to get married and adopt children without closed minded people trying to push laws on them.

 

[Agayek]

Now this is a much meatier topic. For the sake of argument, why would you 'fucking kill' a zoopheliac? It may not be something you want to do, but I don't exactly think it obviously a crime punishable by death. Same is true for most of the other things you listed.

To be fair, pedophilia (including most of the lolicon stuff), rape, guro, and debatably necrophilia all almost certainly qualify for the death penality. Pedophilia because it's gross abuse of children, rape because it's, well, rape, and guro because at the end of the day one or both parties are going to be missing some probably vital body parts. Necrophilia is pretty much the most extreme way to disrespect the dead, and while I'm not sure that qualifies for execution, it's pretty damn disturbing and I'd definitely punch someone I caught doing it.

Bestiality is just gross. Not really worthy of death, but definitely disturbing on a number of levels.

 

[Harlemura]

I'm straight.
I don't mind if someone's gay, I just don't really want them getting the kissy-kissy on right in front of me.
This goes for any couple really, but I'd admit that I'd probably feel more awkward if both participants had the same fun parts.
But still, they're people. Don't take their rights because a minority of people feel a bit awkward around 'em. It's like taking someone's rights because... er... I dunno, they like cod slightly more than haddock. Or something.