SaneAmongInsane said:
So a lot of talk there how Disney villains are coded gay and ectera ectera, now I have a question and it follows a personal experience of mine. Back when GTAIV came out, I came to the two missions in the game that certain around selling and then later revenge on buyers of the jewels. Now I play the game and I'm shocked to see the buyers are, presumably, orthodox Jews based solely on their style of dress. I sat there, watching the scene expecting some grand stereotype to be displayed that weren't. Even when allegedly backstabbed by them not a single character utters a racial slur to my knowledge. I recall I walked away from that part of the game thinking how progressive that was, to be able to slip them into that role and not make even reference to their racial denomination. Perhaps I'm wrong and it was anti-Semitic but I didn't read it that way, and if I'm wrong I'm sure someone will correct me.
First off, thanks for turning me on to the Nostalgia Chick. Great stuff.
Secondly, one thing she fails to consider is Old Disney (which produced many of those "coded gay" villains. It also had it's fair share of "coded Jewish" villains) vs New Disney (the very gay-friendly Disney). In the past decade or two, Disney has done a LOT to clean up their bad rep with the gay community. See also:
Once Upon a Time. They've been trying. However, some of those characters were created during a time when Disney was far less gay friendly.
Thirdly, I believe it is time and past time for a lesbian princess. It wouldn't even be that hard. Just switch out the usual male love interest for a female one and you're done. You don't need to SAY anything about it, just have it happen - the princess marries the other girl at the end of the movie instead of a man.
ANYWAY, on to your actual topic:
There are a couple of things to consider when having a gay or coded-gay villain. First off, having a villain who happens to be gay is fine is you also have a protagonist who happens to be gay. Maybe not the main character, but an ally. This is why Aladdin works so well - I never got "gay" off of Jafar, but I certainly did off of Genie. Even if they were both supposed to be coded gay, Genie out-gays Jafar and thus you have a gay hero in the spotlight while any coded-gay qualities about Jafar become less obvious.
Secondly (again), one way to have a pro-gay villain is if their repression - ie, being in the closet - is part of why they're a villain. One problem with the coded gay trope is that it tends to attack gay qualities and suggest that gay people are inherently bad. However, if you make it appear that your villain is a good person who has turned bad because they've had to repress who they are, then you end up with a sympathetic villain who demonstrates how toxic the climate in society that forces gay people into the closet is. Magneto, one of the most beloved villains in comic books, is an example of this (where, as with all X-Men, "mutant" stands in for gay). His ill treatment because he was "a mutant" has caused him to lash out. He was a good person who was hurt and reacted badly. His "mutantness" is not what makes him evil - society's bad treatment of him is.
Disney sometimes toys with this - more recent coded gay Disney villains all seem to be repressed, and have more open counterpoints on the good-guy team (see Aladdin and Lion King). Also, in Hunchback, the villain is NOT gay coded. At all. Whereas one of the good gargoyles (who is very open about his desires) is gay. Hunchback also has the scariest villain in all of Disney history (so scary he has no cute fan-service side-kick).
I've gone on a bit long and texty here. Sorry - this is a topic near and dear to my heart. I've had the "how to write a gay villain" talk with a female friend of mine who is attempting to write a story that involves both a lesbian protagonist and a lesbian villain. She was afraid that she was creating a "lesbian vampire" trope (where lesbian sexuality is symbolized by vampires) but I made the same argument I did above - she had a "free" protagonist and a "repressed" villain. The rest of my argument you already know (since I wrote it above) so there you have it.
Edit:
Damn you! I have just wasted two hours watching backlog of Nostalgia Chick and plan to spend hours more doing the same. You have just destroyed any ability of mine to be productive today! And, while I don't agree with everything she has to say, damn but she says it well.
So yeah... I'll just be on that website watching those videos.....