GDC 2010: Gabe Newell Bashes DRM

John Funk

U.N. Owen Was Him?
Dec 20, 2005
20,364
0
0
GDC 2010: Gabe Newell Bashes DRM



Valve co-founder Gabe Newell thinks that overly restrictive DRM ultimately devalues a product.

Speaking last night at the Game Developers' Choice awards, where he was honored as the recipient of a Pioneer Award, Valve head honcho Gabe Newell expressed opposition to restrictive Digital Rights Management - which is a bit of a hot-button issue at the moment [http://www.escapistmagazine.com/news/view/98927-Ubisoft-DRM-Authentication-Servers-Go-Down].

"One thing that you hear [Valve] talk a lot about is entertainment as a service," said Newell. "It's an attitude that says 'what have I done for my customers today?'"

"It informs all the decisions we make, and once you get into that mindset it helps you avoid things like some of the Digital Rights Management problems that actually make your entertainment products worth less by wrapping those negatives around them."

Newell's comments were greeted by cheers from industry luminaries and developers alike, perhaps indicating that the people who actually make the games are as unhappy with DRM as the people who play them.

Of course, while Newell's statement was probably heartfelt and genuine, it isn't like the man hasn't ever put DRM in his products - Steam is, after all, a type of DRM (albeit a much less restrictive one than others). I think "If you have DRM, just make it as painless as possible" is an axiom most of us can get behind, isn't it? And to be fair, Steam does have other benefits.

I think that's what rankles me the most about the whole Ubisoft fiasco. The ironic part is that without the absurd "you must be connected 100% of the time to play" stipulation, the Ubisoft service could have actually been successful at reducing piracy by providing incentives instead of punishment.

"Hey guys, if you buy and register your game with us, you get to download and install it as many times on as many computers as you want, and you have the option of storing your games in our cloud so you can pick up where you left off no matter the machine!" If Ubisoft had just stuck with that, wouldn't it have encouraged people to buy their games for the goodies? Instead, everybody just gets punished.

(Develop Online [http://www.develop-online.net/news/34148/GDC-DRM-damages-the-value-of-games-says-Newell])

Permalink
 

That's Funny

New member
Jul 20, 2009
805
0
0
Yeah, I think Newell should think about what he says before bashing a competitor's product.

[sub/] Even if it does suck hard. [/sub]
 

Lord_Panzer

Impractically practical
Feb 6, 2009
1,107
0
0
John Funk said:
Valve co-founder Gabe Newell thinks that overly restrictive DRM ultimately devalues a product.
In other breaking news, grass grows, birds fly, sun shines, and brother, I hurt people.

Just another reason I love that big walking Timbit.
 

oppp7

New member
Aug 29, 2009
7,045
0
0
I'm not really too against the whole setup of Assassin's Creed 2's DRM since it's exactly the same as Guild Wars. The problem with that is that, obviously, Guild Wars is a multiplayer and requires that to make sure people don't hack (also, the servers crashed due to overuse). But overall, I felt that the DRM for Spore was much more irritating.
 

SextusMaximus

Nightingale Assassin
May 20, 2009
3,508
0
0
Gabe Newell, the one who gives me an offline mode that requires the internet? yeah. Shut up Gabe.
 

John Funk

U.N. Owen Was Him?
Dec 20, 2005
20,364
0
0
Wow, I never thought Gabe would be the one to say this. Just when you're like "Damnit Gabe wheres the L4D2 DLC?" or "Damnit Gabe wheres the HL2: Episode 3?" he comes out with stuff like this. Damn you Gabe, why can't you just let people hate on you? You always gotta be the bastard with a heart of gold.
 

dagens24

New member
Mar 20, 2004
879
0
0
John Funk said:
Gabe Newell Bashes DRM

"Hey guys, if you buy and register your game with us, you get to install it as many times on as many computers as you want, and you have the option of storing your games in our cloud so you can pick up where you left off no matter the machine!"

Permalink
I disagree with any type of install restrictions to begin with. I don't think consumers should have to register or be part of the service in order to use their product; so I don't see that as an incentive.
 

Woodsey

New member
Aug 9, 2009
14,553
0
0
"Hey guys, if you buy and register your game with us, you get to install it as many times on as many computers as you want, and you have the option of storing your games in our cloud so you can pick up where you left off no matter the machine!" If Ubisoft had just stuck with that, wouldn't it have encouraged people to buy their games for the goodies?

You can do that without DRM, and there are things on the web that let you store files on a cloud service anyway - there's one to do with a box but the name escapes me.

Hardly an incentive.

Anyway, although Steam is a form of DRM it is pretty unrestrictive (bar a one-time activation) and exceptionally well thought out: constant updates, a great great GREAT store, a good community (a f*cking big one at that), etc. etc.

Oh, and it works (as in, it doesn't stop you from playing the games after that single activation). That's something that GfWL might want to take note of - because it fucks me over every single time.
 

destroyer2k

New member
Oct 12, 2008
168
0
0
Eukaryote said:
SextusMaximus said:
Gabe Newell, the one who gives me an offline mode that requires the internet? yeah. Shut up Gabe.
Offline mode works fine for me, I don't know what's wrong with you
Yes but the problem he is having that you have to be connected to go in offline mode.
 

John Funk

U.N. Owen Was Him?
Dec 20, 2005
20,364
0
0
destroyer2k said:
Eukaryote said:
SextusMaximus said:
Gabe Newell, the one who gives me an offline mode that requires the internet? yeah. Shut up Gabe.
Offline mode works fine for me, I don't know what's wrong with you
Yes but the problem he is having that you have to be connected to go in offline mode.
... If I am without a connection and I start up steam, it just starts in offline mode. There must be something wrong with your installation or something since it works fine for me.
 

j0z

New member
Apr 23, 2009
1,762
0
0
Yes, Steam is a type of DRM. But you know what? It provides me with a good incentive to use it (as Funk said). I get a BIG store where I can buy many computer games, and not just the big titles either. I also get access to the HUGE community, where I can chat with my friends, invite them to games, and I get the overlay so I can chat while in-game. Plus, once I buy a game from steam, I can install it on as many computers as I like, with no limits to how many times I can do it, and some games do support Steam Clouds. Steam is the PC equivalent to LIVE and PSN, but only better
/end Valve/PC fanboy tirade.
 

Benjeezy

New member
Dec 3, 2009
523
0
0
Lord_Panzer said:
John Funk said:
Valve co-founder Gabe Newell thinks that overly restrictive DRM ultimately devalues a product.
In other breaking news, grass grows, birds fly, sun shines, and brother, I hurt people.
That's actually my ringtone o_O

OT: SEE? It's a bad, awful, pointless idea. Everybody save Ubisoft seems to agree on this.
 

John Funk

U.N. Owen Was Him?
Dec 20, 2005
20,364
0
0
dagens24 said:
John Funk said:
Gabe Newell Bashes DRM

"Hey guys, if you buy and register your game with us, you get to install it as many times on as many computers as you want, and you have the option of storing your games in our cloud so you can pick up where you left off no matter the machine!"

Permalink
I disagree with any type of install restrictions to begin with. I don't think consumers should have to register or be part of the service in order to use their product; so I don't see that as an incentive.
Downloading and installing their game from their servers for free as many times as you want isn't an incentive?

Woodsey said:
"Hey guys, if you buy and register your game with us, you get to install it as many times on as many computers as you want, and you have the option of storing your games in our cloud so you can pick up where you left off no matter the machine!" If Ubisoft had just stuck with that, wouldn't it have encouraged people to buy their games for the goodies?

You can do that without DRM, and there are things on the web that let you store files on a cloud service anyway - there's one to do with a box but the name escapes me.

Hardly an incentive.
Oh please, you're nitpicking. If it were seamless to do and you didn't have to do third-party services, mess around with files, saving them in certain places, etc - but just could go "save to cloud" in-game?

How is that NOT an incentive?
 

John Funk

U.N. Owen Was Him?
Dec 20, 2005
20,364
0
0
Well the new Ubisoft system did prevent Piracy until now.

As far as I know Silent Hunter 5 can't be played... supposedly the Campaign Missions can't be completed or something and Assassin's Creed 2 isn't even out yet... so yeah.
 

Jared

The British Paladin
Jul 14, 2009
5,630
0
0
SextusMaximus said:
Gabe Newell, the one who gives me an offline mode that requires the internet? yeah. Shut up Gabe.
Yeah, thats always been stupid.

Anyway, hes just making an obvious statement. Of course opressive DRM will do that...thats why its called oppresive
 

The Infinite

New member
Mar 30, 2009
2,102
0
0
SextusMaximus said:
Gabe Newell, the one who gives me an offline mode that requires the internet? yeah. Shut up Gabe.
Hell I just leave my Steam in online mode when I disconnect from the internet. Doesn't make a difference and I can still play everything. That might help you since offline mode has given me some problems in the past...
 

Assassin Xaero

New member
Jul 23, 2008
5,393
0
0
destroyer2k said:
Eukaryote said:
SextusMaximus said:
Gabe Newell, the one who gives me an offline mode that requires the internet? yeah. Shut up Gabe.
Offline mode works fine for me, I don't know what's wrong with you
Yes but the problem he is having that you have to be connected to go in offline mode.
At college they have the Steam servers blocked so you can't connect to it, but offline mode works fine... Dunno what problems you're having...
 

Woodsey

New member
Aug 9, 2009
14,553
0
0
John Funk said:
dagens24 said:
John Funk said:
Gabe Newell Bashes DRM

"Hey guys, if you buy and register your game with us, you get to install it as many times on as many computers as you want, and you have the option of storing your games in our cloud so you can pick up where you left off no matter the machine!"

Permalink
I disagree with any type of install restrictions to begin with. I don't think consumers should have to register or be part of the service in order to use their product; so I don't see that as an incentive.
Downloading and installing their game from their servers for free as many times as you want isn't an incentive?

Woodsey said:
"Hey guys, if you buy and register your game with us, you get to install it as many times on as many computers as you want, and you have the option of storing your games in our cloud so you can pick up where you left off no matter the machine!" If Ubisoft had just stuck with that, wouldn't it have encouraged people to buy their games for the goodies?

You can do that without DRM, and there are things on the web that let you store files on a cloud service anyway - there's one to do with a box but the name escapes me.

Hardly an incentive.
Oh please, you're nitpicking. If it were seamless to do and you didn't have to do third-party services, mess around with files, saving them in certain places, etc - but just could go "save to cloud" in-game?

How is that NOT an incentive?
Not an incentive as in:

- Pre-DRM I could install anything, anywhere, any time.
- How many people (other than journo's) game on more than one machine? Not many I'm betting, because how many people can afford to have two gaming PCs capable of running, say, AC2 on decent settings?

Its certainly not enough to force people into a 100% connection situation. I also doubt that anyone gaming on a PC would have any trouble finding out where a save file goes. And if you can't be arsed with third-party software, why not email the save in an attachment? Or use a memory stick?

Steam has the only incentives, and Valve has plans for cloud-gaming for that anyway; and for those without a 'net connection that's still not an incentive, just an added bonus for those with one.
 

Gildan Bladeborn

New member
Aug 11, 2009
3,044
0
0
oppp7 said:
But overall, I felt that the DRM for Spore was much more irritating.
I posit that you do not fully understand how that would have worked - it wanted to connect to the internet each time you ran the application (as does Ubisofts), but it only had to check to see if you "were still not a pirate". If you weren't connected to the net when you tried to start the game, it would still let you in. The system would lock you out of after say... 10 days without performing that check, but you could still start the game without being online, and if your net connection failed while playing it nothing would happen.

With Ubisoft's DRM 'solution', if you can't get online you can't play. If you get disconnected, you can't play. It's way more restrictive and every bit as annoying as the Spore system - the only possible positive feature is cloud-based game saves, but those are not worth shackling yourself to a system that requires a constant net connection for a single player game.
 

Credge

New member
Apr 12, 2008
1,042
0
0
That said:
Yeah, I think Newell should think about what he says before bashing a competitor's product.

[sub/] Even if it does suck hard. [/sub]
I don't follow.
 

dagens24

New member
Mar 20, 2004
879
0
0
John Funk said:
dagens24 said:
John Funk said:
Gabe Newell Bashes DRM

"Hey guys, if you buy and register your game with us, you get to install it as many times on as many computers as you want, and you have the option of storing your games in our cloud so you can pick up where you left off no matter the machine!"

Permalink
I disagree with any type of install restrictions to begin with. I don't think consumers should have to register or be part of the service in order to use their product; so I don't see that as an incentive.
Downloading and installing their game from their servers for free as many times as you want isn't an incentive?
Sorry, I should have been more clear. Having to register and download a service so I can download and install my game off of their servers; fair. Having to register and use some sort of service so I can install the disk copy I just bought from the store; unfair. I believe that if I buy a game off the shelf I should be able to play it as is and uninstall/reinstall as many times as I want without hassle. Having to download something, or contact someone, or even be connected to the net at all, is unfair in my opinion; it's as if I haven't even bought the software, I'm just renting it with their permission. I remember when Half-Life 2 first came out and I rushed home to install it and I couldn't play because my net was all messed up at the time and it required a connection to steam; it sucked.
 

John Funk

U.N. Owen Was Him?
Dec 20, 2005
20,364
0
0
Woodsey said:
Not an incentive as in:

- Pre-DRM I could install anything, anywhere, any time.
- How many people (other than journo's) game on more than one machine? Not many I'm betting, because how many people can afford to have two gaming PCs capable of running, say, AC2 on decent settings?

Its certainly not enough to force people into a 100% connection situation. I also doubt that anyone gaming on a PC would have any trouble finding out where a save file goes. And if you can't be arsed with third-party software, why not email the save in an attachment? Or use a memory stick?

Steam has the only incentives, and Valve has plans for cloud-gaming for that anyway; and for those without a 'net connection that's still not an incentive, just an added bonus for those with one.
...dude, will you actually read what I said? I said, if Ubisoft had just had those features but *not* the 100% connection, it would have been an incentive. We're talking about a hypothetical situation in which there was none of the "DRM," just incentives to register the game and download it even if you lose the DVDs or whatever.
 

John Funk

U.N. Owen Was Him?
Dec 20, 2005
20,364
0
0
I think he should shut his mouth. Fanboys shouldn't be allowed to talk about anything that isn't theirs.
 

Woodsey

New member
Aug 9, 2009
14,553
0
0
John Funk said:
Woodsey said:
Not an incentive as in:

- Pre-DRM I could install anything, anywhere, any time.
- How many people (other than journo's) game on more than one machine? Not many I'm betting, because how many people can afford to have two gaming PCs capable of running, say, AC2 on decent settings?

Its certainly not enough to force people into a 100% connection situation. I also doubt that anyone gaming on a PC would have any trouble finding out where a save file goes. And if you can't be arsed with third-party software, why not email the save in an attachment? Or use a memory stick?

Steam has the only incentives, and Valve has plans for cloud-gaming for that anyway; and for those without a 'net connection that's still not an incentive, just an added bonus for those with one.
...dude, will you actually read what I said? I said, if Ubisoft had just had those features but *not* the 100% connection, it would have been an incentive. We're talking about a hypothetical situation in which there was none of the "DRM," just incentives to register the game and download it even if you lose the DVDs or whatever.
Isn't that called Steam...?
 

John Funk

U.N. Owen Was Him?
Dec 20, 2005
20,364
0
0
Woodsey said:
John Funk said:
Woodsey said:
Not an incentive as in:

- Pre-DRM I could install anything, anywhere, any time.
- How many people (other than journo's) game on more than one machine? Not many I'm betting, because how many people can afford to have two gaming PCs capable of running, say, AC2 on decent settings?

Its certainly not enough to force people into a 100% connection situation. I also doubt that anyone gaming on a PC would have any trouble finding out where a save file goes. And if you can't be arsed with third-party software, why not email the save in an attachment? Or use a memory stick?

Steam has the only incentives, and Valve has plans for cloud-gaming for that anyway; and for those without a 'net connection that's still not an incentive, just an added bonus for those with one.
...dude, will you actually read what I said? I said, if Ubisoft had just had those features but *not* the 100% connection, it would have been an incentive. We're talking about a hypothetical situation in which there was none of the "DRM," just incentives to register the game and download it even if you lose the DVDs or whatever.
Isn't that called Steam...?
Sigh. We're getting nowhere fast.
 

Woodsey

New member
Aug 9, 2009
14,553
0
0
John Funk said:
Woodsey said:
John Funk said:
Woodsey said:
Not an incentive as in:

- Pre-DRM I could install anything, anywhere, any time.
- How many people (other than journo's) game on more than one machine? Not many I'm betting, because how many people can afford to have two gaming PCs capable of running, say, AC2 on decent settings?

Its certainly not enough to force people into a 100% connection situation. I also doubt that anyone gaming on a PC would have any trouble finding out where a save file goes. And if you can't be arsed with third-party software, why not email the save in an attachment? Or use a memory stick?

Steam has the only incentives, and Valve has plans for cloud-gaming for that anyway; and for those without a 'net connection that's still not an incentive, just an added bonus for those with one.
...dude, will you actually read what I said? I said, if Ubisoft had just had those features but *not* the 100% connection, it would have been an incentive. We're talking about a hypothetical situation in which there was none of the "DRM," just incentives to register the game and download it even if you lose the DVDs or whatever.
Isn't that called Steam...?
Sigh. We're getting nowhere fast.
xD

Sorry, but a one-time registration with those incentives is just Steam to me.

Long week.
 

Pimppeter2

New member
Dec 31, 2008
16,479
0
0
Seeing as Digital Distribution,and therefore STEAM, is the enemy, I say pah

And repeat it three or for time spitting
 

karmapolizei

New member
Sep 26, 2008
244
0
0
destroyer2k said:
Eukaryote said:
SextusMaximus said:
Gabe Newell, the one who gives me an offline mode that requires the internet? yeah. Shut up Gabe.
Offline mode works fine for me, I don't know what's wrong with you
Yes but the problem he is having that you have to be connected to go in offline mode.
Not in my experience you don't. I guess you'll have to have been connected once per machine to retrieve your games and information for your local client to know you're entitled to play what's on your machine. But after that, whenever Steam fails to login it says "Try again or offline mode?", and I just click offline mode and that's that.

That said, these statements are a bit rich coming from Gabe.
 

Booze Zombie

New member
Dec 8, 2007
7,416
0
0
Indeed, it really, really could've been a good service, but Ubisoft have buggered it up.

BUT there's still hope, they could still salvage it!

Dexter111 said:
Well the new Ubisoft system did prevent Piracy until now.

As far as I know Silent Hunter 5 can't be played... supposedly the Campaign Missions can't be completed or something and Assassin's Creed 2 isn't even out yet... so yeah.
It's not really DRM if everyone's version of the game stops working.
 

AceDiamond

New member
Jul 7, 2008
2,293
0
0
Donnyp said:
I think he should shut his mouth. Fanboys shouldn't be allowed to talk about anything that isn't theirs.
In which case nobody on this site should be allowed to talk about anything at any time, ever. Unless they created it.

And while that would finally shut up a lot of idiots, it wouldn't be very fair.

I don't see what the big deal is, apparently it's ok for all of us to go "BOO UBISOFT'S DRM SUCKS" but when someone in the industry does it apparently they aren't credible? Am I in Bizarro World? Yes, Steam is a form of DRM, but it isn't one that keeps me from installing a game multiple times, doesn't require me to be online at all times (offline mode does work, people), and overall it is generally unobtrusive. So again, what is the deal.
 

The Youth Counselor

New member
Sep 20, 2008
1,004
0
0
Woodsey said:
- Pre-DRM I could install anything, anywhere, any time.
- How many people (other than journo's) game on more than one machine? Not many I'm betting, because how many people can afford to have two gaming PCs capable of running, say, AC2 on decent settings?
How many gamers here have friends and family members? I'm constantly heading over to a friend's house and every year I stay at my Uncle's where I log onto log into my Steam account to show them a game they've never played.
 

Deathfish15

New member
Nov 7, 2006
579
0
0
I only had to read the title header and the first sentence to agree with it.

Ex.:

Ruse is a great RTS game that I love and would buy in a heartbeat....however it's got Ubisoft's new DRM that requires you to be connected to their servers 24/7 when playing the game otherwise you cannot play it. That I do not mind for the multiplayer part, but for singleplayer campaign or skirmishes against the AI, I find that utterly ridiculous. It's a great game and many in the open beta have said the same thing: "would have bought if it wasn't by Ubisoft with the dreaded DRM".
 

Caliostro

Headhunter
Jan 23, 2008
3,253
0
0
John Funk said:
Instead, everybody just gets punished.
Not everybody. Only legitimate customers (how ironic is that?). There have been cracked versions around since a week BEFORE release.
 

rembrandtqeinstein

New member
Sep 4, 2009
2,173
0
0
Steam is still DRM no matter how you cut it. The chains rest lightly on you but they are still chains.

The point of DRM has never been to stop piracy because you would think that at about 10 years of abject failure they would have given up by now. The point of DRM is to kill the second hand market which costs publishers much more money than piracy ever could. And Steam, along with other digital download services, kills the 2nd hand market.
 

NLS

Norwegian Llama Stylist
Jan 7, 2010
1,594
0
0
Steam really "just works" for me. Buying, downloading and playing games is usually so streamlined I love it. And as long as you have set it to remember your password, offline mode works out of the box as well. Hell, I leave it on all the time as well, since some of my friends aren't on MSN or facebook anymore.
Of course, it does happen every now and then that there's something wrong with Steam, but long-term it just drowns in the general good use I've had from Steam through all these years, and it gets better for each day.
 

John Funk

U.N. Owen Was Him?
Dec 20, 2005
20,364
0
0
AceDiamond said:
Donnyp said:
I think he should shut his mouth. Fanboys shouldn't be allowed to talk about anything that isn't theirs.
In which case nobody on this site should be allowed to talk about anything at any time, ever. Unless they created it.

And while that would finally shut up a lot of idiots, it wouldn't be very fair.

I don't see what the big deal is, apparently it's ok for all of us to go "BOO UBISOFT'S DRM SUCKS" but when someone in the industry does it apparently they aren't credible? Am I in Bizarro World? Yes, Steam is a form of DRM, but it isn't one that keeps me from installing a game multiple times, doesn't require me to be online at all times (offline mode does work, people), and overall it is generally unobtrusive. So again, what is the deal.
Because he has Insight into the Industry. If your not a owner or designer your nobody and your Word and Argument Is Moot. Also I think any Company Owner that is a Fanboy should Shut Up. I don't think every Fanboy Should....Just him. Not Everyone is a Fanboy.
 

Xanthious

New member
Dec 25, 2008
1,273
0
0
Ok I know it's totally off topic but can anyone tell what game Gabe is playing in that picture? Im thinking it looks like WoW with some UI addons but I can't be sure.
 

That's Funny

New member
Jul 20, 2009
805
0
0
Credge said:
That said:
Yeah, I think Newell should think about what he says before bashing a competitor's product.

[sub/] Even if it does suck hard. [/sub]
I don't follow.
Well like the report says, steam also has a similar system like the DRM although more leniant, I'm just saying he should look at his own product before he makes comments like that, although I respect him for saying those things anyways.

[sub/] If you don't understand any of that, don't worry, not many people understand what I say [/sub]
 
Feb 13, 2008
19,430
0
0
Steam works. Ubisoft's doesn't.

1-0 to Steam imho.

Steam also gets points for Instant Messaging, Auto-updates, Ongoing Free Upgrades. Yeah, it loses some for DRM, and occasional crashes, but it still stays above the rest overall.

John Funk said:
Downloading and installing their game from their servers for free as many times as you want isn't an incentive?
Well on most MMOs...and numerous other games, it's a standard.

And if we're bashing Gabe for that, what WILL we do to Kotick, Guillemot(Ubi), Molyneux or Stringer(Sony)?
 

John Funk

U.N. Owen Was Him?
Dec 20, 2005
20,364
0
0
The_root_of_all_evil said:
Steam works. Ubisoft's doesn't.

1-0 to Steam imho.

Steam also gets points for Instant Messaging, Auto-updates, Ongoing Free Upgrades. Yeah, it loses some for DRM, and occasional crashes, but it still stays above the rest overall.

John Funk said:
Downloading and installing their game from their servers for free as many times as you want isn't an incentive?
Well on most MMOs...and numerous other games, it's a standard.

And if we're bashing Gabe for that, what WILL we do to Kotick, Guillemot(Ubi), Molyneux or Stringer(Sony)?
You're missing the point.

And who's bashing Gabe? He has a point, but Steam *is* DRM.
 
Feb 13, 2008
19,430
0
0
John Funk said:
You're missing the point.
TBF, I don't get the point.
And who's bashing Gabe? He has a point, but Steam *is* DRM.
Gabe's still a gamer though. When have we EVER not bashed something we ourselves have done?

Sid Meier does similar in his GDC speech.

We're never gonna get rid of DRM any more than we'll get rid of the Internet or Piracy, but making it as unobtrusive as possible is still a valid goal.

AndresCL said:
When steam servers go down, you are fucked.

Steam doesnt sounds so good now, right?
Then a lot of us will turn back to the back-ups and the pirates. Who, in all likelihood, will still be going strong.
 

John Funk

U.N. Owen Was Him?
Dec 20, 2005
20,364
0
0
I get the point about "comfortable" DRM being better than abusive DRM, but ultimately it is still DRM, and unacceptable. Having a slim buttplug rammed up your backside is far better than having an extra-large one forced up there, but the "A is better than B" mentality doesn't consider that maybe, just maybe, we don't want rubber plugs shoved up our ass no matter the size.

Also worth note, Steam more-or-less does require a 100%-constant net connection for a great many of their products. Steam goes down, half or more of my Steam-linked games cease to function, even in single-player mode. Hell, my roommate's copy of Tropico 3, which doesn't even HAVE an online component, doesn't work when Steam or the net are down, yet my DVD copy will.
 

Zer_

Rocket Scientist
Feb 7, 2008
2,682
0
0
What most of the DRM haters don't understand is that digital distribution will become the norm quite soon. There's nothing you can do about it, kicking and screaming about it won't get you anywhere.

Of all the online distribution/drm platforms, I think Steam is the best iteration of a possible future. Instead of being all *sneer sneer sneer* about it, learn to accept change, and enjoy Steam for its many advantages.
 

Rath709

New member
Mar 18, 2008
358
0
0
Steam is pretty much ideal from where I'm sitting.

- If I buy a game through Steam, I know I can re-download it as many times as necessary on as many machines as my account is enabled on, and when I have my own PC, a laptop for portability, and another PC at my family home that gets pretty regular use, that's pretty damn good. Compare that to something like iTunes, where if you are for some reason forced to do a factory restore of your machine, re-installing iTunes then uses up one of the machine authorisations for your account with them, despite it being the same damn physical machine. Apple, pay attention to Valve.

- Also, any games I already own that weren't acquired through Steam originally can be added to the Steam Games list as a shortcut, and can benefit from the features that Steam adds to it like the in-game web browser and friend chat. For example, I'll be playing World Of Warcraft through Steam via the shortcut I've added, and I can just hit Shift+Tab and be chatting with a friend who is playing Global Agenda. Or I'm playing one of the Homeworld games and I need to look up a strategy for something on GameFAQs without alt-tabbing and having the game crash to the desktop as a result.

- Game updates. I don't have to fuck around looking for patches, it does it for me. And slightly re-tooled versions of games, for example Deus Ex being patched to run at higher resolutions through Steam.

- Not to mention the amazing weekend deals they regularly offer. Was there anyone who didn't already own Psychonauts who was going to turn it down for ONE POUND?

Now look at the alternatives. Games For Windows Live, a poorly implemented system that's not even available in all the countries of the European Union. Or Ubisoft and their offensively draconian system that doesn't even fucking work the way they want it to half the time when the servers go down.
 

ddq5

I wonder what the character limi
Jun 18, 2009
415
0
0
Valve co-founder Gabe Newell thinks that overly restrictive DRM can suck his balls.
Good on ya, Gabe.
 

Zer_

Rocket Scientist
Feb 7, 2008
2,682
0
0
Rath709 said:
Steam is pretty much ideal from where I'm sitting.

- If I buy a game through Steam, I know I can re-download it as many times as necessary on as many machines as my account is enabled on, and when I have my own PC, a laptop for portability, and another PC at my family home that gets pretty regular use, that's pretty damn good. Compare that to something like iTunes, where if you are for some reason forced to do a factory restore of your machine, re-installing iTunes then uses up one of the machine authorisations for your account with them, despite it being the same damn physical machine. Apple, pay attention to Valve.

- Also, any games I already own that weren't acquired through Steam originally can be added to the Steam Games list as a shortcut, and can benefit from the features that Steam adds to it like the in-game web browser and friend chat. For example, I'll be playing World Of Warcraft through Steam via the shortcut I've added, and I can just hit Shift+Tab and be chatting with a friend who is playing Global Agenda. Or I'm playing one of the Homeworld games and I need to look up a strategy for something on GameFAQs without alt-tabbing and having the game crash to the desktop as a result.

- Game updates. I don't have to fuck around looking for patches, it does it for me. And slightly re-tooled versions of games, for example Deus Ex being patched to run at higher resolutions through Steam.

- Not to mention the amazing weekend deals they regularly offer. Was there anyone who didn't already own Psychonauts who was going to turn it down for ONE POUND?

Now look at the alternatives. Games For Windows Live, a poorly implemented system that's not even available in all the countries of the European Union. Or Ubisoft and their offensively draconian system that doesn't even fucking work the way they want it to half the time when the servers go down.
Pretty much sums up some of the great benefits of Steam. One thing you need to consider, though is that not all games support Steam Community in-game. In fact there have been cases where games would crash if the Steam Overlay popped up, although it usually happens to 3rd party games.
 

Snotnarok

New member
Nov 17, 2008
6,310
0
0
Lord_Panzer said:
John Funk said:
Valve co-founder Gabe Newell thinks that overly restrictive DRM ultimately devalues a product.
In other breaking news, grass grows, birds fly, sun shines, and brother, I hurt people.

Just another reason I love that big walking Timbit.
Bonk

Finally a developer comes out and says something smart that isn't just backwoods retarded bashing for no reason.

Edit: Yes steam is DRM, he states that but he said if you're going to use DRM, make it painless and not hurt the customer. Something that I at least feel Steam doesn't do.
 

Goombanator

New member
Dec 2, 2009
49
0
0
I love steam. And DRM is a better solution to the old "Code in the box" thing. I Have lost my COD4 case, and if I ever want to play it again, even though I have the disc. I have to buy another copy, surley thats a more retarded system than a registration.
 

(LK)

New member
Mar 4, 2010
139
0
0

Hey guys, if you buy and register your game with us, you get to download and install it as many times on as many computers as you want


I think it's dangerous to start calling this a perk. Allowing people to continue installing games the way they have for decades isn't adding value, it's just declining to take away that value.

It's no more a perk than not being robbed is a windfall.

Cloud saves are a perk, though. A fairly tame perk many won't find useful, but at least it adds some value.

The real problem of course is that, outside of unique cases like Valve, DRM choices are decided by people in the publishing industry who do not play games, do not understand games, and have experience which does not distinguish them from anyone occupying a managerial job in any other industry. They know next to nothing about their own industry's products. So, of course if you let them decide the content of their products, they're going to be like Homer Simpson designing a car. Run the business right into the ground.

Let game designers design games. Let publishers back off and remind them they're good for money and advertising and a gigantic obstacle to financial success if they dabble in anything else. This is the classic archetype of what happens when obsessive managers try to weild micromanaging control in fields they are not competent in.
 

Zer_

Rocket Scientist
Feb 7, 2008
2,682
0
0
(LK) said:
Hey guys, if you buy and register your game with us, you get to download and install it as many times on as many computers as you want


I think it's dangerous to start calling this a perk. Allowing people to continue installing games the way they have for decades isn't adding value, it's just declining to take away that value.
Well, don't be too sure. My old StarCraft CDs are so worn out that they are barely usable. Same goes for many of my old games. Digital Distribution doesn't have that risk. Before you say anything, yes I do take care of my games, but 10-15 years of swapping CDs DVDs in and out of drives does in fact have an effect on your CDs. Furthermore, CD/DVD media has a limited lifespan.
 

John Funk

U.N. Owen Was Him?
Dec 20, 2005
20,364
0
0
Zer_ said:
Well, don't be too sure. My old StarCraft CDs are so worn out that they are barely usable. Same goes for many of my old games. Digital Distribution doesn't have that risk. Before you say anything, yes I do take care of my games, but 10-15 years of swapping CDs DVDs in and out of drives does in fact have an effect on your CDs. Furthermore, CD/DVD media has a limited lifespan.
To be fair, 15 years is a long time. Steam came out in '03, making it less than half that age. When Steam surpasses 15 years, and every game you ever purchased via or linked to it is still available, we can talk about it being equal or superior. Thus in 2018 this thread will be necro'ed and we can see who was right.
 

(LK)

New member
Mar 4, 2010
139
0
0
Zer_ said:
(LK) said:
Hey guys, if you buy and register your game with us, you get to download and install it as many times on as many computers as you want


I think it's dangerous to start calling this a perk. Allowing people to continue installing games the way they have for decades isn't adding value, it's just declining to take away that value.
Well, don't be too sure. My old StarCraft CDs are so worn out that they are barely usable. Same goes for many of my old games. Digital Distribution doesn't have that risk. Before you say anything, yes I do take care of my games, but 10-15 years of swapping CDs DVDs in and out of drives does in fact have an effect on your CDs. Furthermore, CD/DVD media has a limited lifespan.
Keep in mind this is also the reason why many countries legally enshrine making backups of physical media as a protected consumer right. This was only crippled by the same people who are now pushing the alternative as a perk, since the DMCA made breaking the DRM to access that protected right illegal, making backups de facto illegal.

This is sort of like a protection racket. Buy into their DRM schemes and as a perk they won't break your face in with a bat. Hyperbolic? Yes, but there is a minor similarity in place, where the only advantages they're offering are alternatives to things you used to have free to you until the same people took them away prior.

Giving people back things that were stolen from them, in this case basic consumer rights, is not a perk nor a gift... and people have to be aware enough not to take it as such.

Personally I'm not willing to pay extra, or suffer extra inconvenience, and then be thankful to people who presume to tell me that deigning to return to me a fraction of the consumer rights and privileges I had enjoyed, until they had removed them from me, is a generous thing to do. I'm not thankful to be given these things back, I'm pissed that they took them away in the first place.

This all feels like publishers have stolen my bicycle and expect me to be thankful when they throw a ribbon on it and give it to me as a birthday present. It's nice to give me my bike back, dear publishers, but I'd prefer never having it stolen over being given it back.
 

WhiteTigerShiro

New member
Sep 26, 2008
2,366
0
0
Lord_Panzer said:
John Funk said:
Valve co-founder Gabe Newell thinks that overly restrictive DRM ultimately devalues a product.
In other breaking news, grass grows, birds fly, sun shines, and brother, I hurt people.
You know that, and I know that, but obviously publishers like 2K and Ubisoft DON'T know that.
 

Zer_

Rocket Scientist
Feb 7, 2008
2,682
0
0
(LK) said:
Zer_ said:
(LK) said:
Hey guys, if you buy and register your game with us, you get to download and install it as many times on as many computers as you want


I think it's dangerous to start calling this a perk. Allowing people to continue installing games the way they have for decades isn't adding value, it's just declining to take away that value.
Well, don't be too sure. My old StarCraft CDs are so worn out that they are barely usable. Same goes for many of my old games. Digital Distribution doesn't have that risk. Before you say anything, yes I do take care of my games, but 10-15 years of swapping CDs DVDs in and out of drives does in fact have an effect on your CDs. Furthermore, CD/DVD media has a limited lifespan.
Keep in mind this is also the reason why many countries legally enshrine making backups of physical media as a protected consumer right. This was only crippled by the same people who are now pushing the alternative as a perk, since the DMCA made breaking the DRM to access that protected right illegal, making backups de facto illegal.

This is sort of like a protection racket. Buy into their DRM schemes and as a perk they won't break your face in with a bat. Hyperbolic? Yes, but there is a minor similarity in place, where the only advantages they're offering are alternatives to things you used to have free to you until the same people took them away prior.

Giving people back things that were stolen from them, in this case basic consumer rights, is not a perk nor a gift... and people have to be aware enough not to take it as such.

Personally I'm not willing to pay extra, or suffer extra inconvenience, and then be thankful to people who presume to tell me that deigning to return to me a fraction of the consumer rights and privileges I had enjoyed, until they had removed them from me, is a generous thing to do. I'm not thankful to be given these things back, I'm pissed that they took them away in the first place.

This all feels like publishers have stolen my bicycle and expect me to be thankful when they throw a ribbon on it and give it to me as a birthday present. It's nice to give me my bike back, dear publishers, but I'd prefer never having it stolen over being given it back.
Except... Steam doesn't take anything away from you. In fact you can Back-Up Valve games onto CD from Steam, or did you completely miss that part? Shit you can even back the game up on a thumb drive which is an incontrovertible PERK! See, 'cause USB thumb drives don't degrade over time.

Proof: (FYI, my D drive is a DVD burner. I can backup games onto my blackberry in fact.)

[http://smg.photobucket.com/albums/v358/SuperFriendBFG/?action=view&current=SteamBack-UptoCDDVD.jpg]


And yes, the Offline Mode works. If you can't run Steam in Offline mode, then there's something wrong with your Steam installation, or network settings. One likely candidate is having a your modem disconnected from the internet, while your PC is still connected to the router.

Proof:

[http://smg.photobucket.com/albums/v358/SuperFriendBFG/?action=view&current=offlinemode1.jpg]

[http://smg.photobucket.com/albums/v358/SuperFriendBFG/?action=view&current=offlinemode2.jpg]

So what next?
 

(LK)

New member
Mar 4, 2010
139
0
0
Well, this begins to boil down to: are we discussing steam or Ubisoft's model?

Steam is a lot less restrictive and, for what it's worth, they're in completely different leagues in terms of technology as well as the customer experience.

Steam has done a lot to turn their platform into a useful service that I use every day and am thankful for. Ubisoft has just said to customers: you will use this or we will take the game away from you.

Marginal utility is the entire point, here. Steam's success is in adding marginal utility to the product. It has drawbacks but is of net benefit. Ubisoft can claim no such things. They claim that simply not removing things people are used to already having they are adding utility, when in fact they're just atrociously bad at lying.
 

Axolotl

New member
Feb 17, 2008
2,401
0
0
AndresCL said:
When steam servers go down, you are fucked.

Steam doesnt sounds so good now, right?
Except Valve have said that if they're ever in a position where they're going to become bankrupt the last thing they'll do will be to release an update allowing you to run the games you've bought without needing Steam.
 

John Funk

U.N. Owen Was Him?
Dec 20, 2005
20,364
0
0
This is coming from the guy who sells you copies of games for full price that you don't actually own and have to be logged into a service that he owns to actually play?

 

John Funk

U.N. Owen Was Him?
Dec 20, 2005
20,364
0
0
Axolotl said:
AndresCL said:
When steam servers go down, you are fucked.

Steam doesnt sounds so good now, right?
Except Valve have said that if they're ever in a position where they're going to become bankrupt the last thing they'll do will be to release an update allowing you to run the games you've bought without needing Steam.
Saying and doing...

There is a great gap between promise and the fulfillment of a promise, and until the former becomes the latter, it is just empty words given worth based on the perceived honesty of the promising party. Even too, the most sincere promise from an honest man may still not pan out, so to say what they will do when Valve closes shop is not any assurance.
 

Zer_

Rocket Scientist
Feb 7, 2008
2,682
0
0
Khell_Sennet said:
Axolotl said:
AndresCL said:
When steam servers go down, you are fucked.

Steam doesnt sounds so good now, right?
Except Valve have said that if they're ever in a position where they're going to become bankrupt the last thing they'll do will be to release an update allowing you to run the games you've bought without needing Steam.
Saying and doing...

There is a great gap between promise and the fulfillment of a promise, and until the former becomes the latter, it is just empty words given worth based on the perceived honesty of the promising party. Even too, the most sincere promise from an honest man may still not pan out, so to say what they will do when Valve closes shop is not any assurance.
Still doesn't stop you from backing the game up yourself, though. So your argument is moot.
 

Axolotl

New member
Feb 17, 2008
2,401
0
0
Khell_Sennet said:
Axolotl said:
AndresCL said:
When steam servers go down, you are fucked.

Steam doesnt sounds so good now, right?
Except Valve have said that if they're ever in a position where they're going to become bankrupt the last thing they'll do will be to release an update allowing you to run the games you've bought without needing Steam.
Saying and doing...

There is a great gap between promise and the fulfillment of a promise, and until the former becomes the latter, it is just empty words given worth based on the perceived honesty of the promising party. Even too, the most sincere promise from an honest man may still not pan out, so to say what they will do when Valve closes shop is not any assurance.
He brought up a concern based on a hypothetical situation. I merely pointed out that Valve have adressed that concern.

Sure it's possible that Valve is trying to mislead us all for some nefarious plan but they have a history of very good customer service and I see no valid reason to assume they're lieing.
 

GamingAwesome1

New member
May 22, 2009
1,794
0
0
Le Tueur said:
Wow, I never thought Gabe would be the one to say this. Just when you're like "Damnit Gabe wheres the L4D2 DLC?" or "Damnit Gabe wheres the HL2: Episode 3?" he comes out with stuff like this. Damn you Gabe, why can't you just let people hate on you? You always gotta be the bastard with a heart of gold.
I know how you feel! You just can't hate him!
 

John Funk

U.N. Owen Was Him?
Dec 20, 2005
20,364
0
0
Steam is great if you have MiSteam and can a)Force it into offline mode and b)Prep games to work without Steam. You can only prep games you own, so it's not piracy, just emulation, which is LEGAL :D

So yeah. Steam with extra bits is win.
 

RicoADF

Welcome back Commander
Jun 2, 2009
3,147
0
0
Zer_ said:
What most of the DRM haters don't understand is that digital distribution will become the norm quite soon. There's nothing you can do about it, kicking and screaming about it won't get you anywhere.

Of all the online distribution/drm platforms, I think Steam is the best iteration of a possible future. Instead of being all *sneer sneer sneer* about it, learn to accept change, and enjoy Steam for its many advantages.
Actually it wont be the norm as much as you think, since most people still prefer a hard copy. Companies wont drop all the sales they could get just to go completly digital.
I'm not saying digital wont grow, but I see it as being another medium to buy ur games, both will exist and people will purchase their games how they like.
 

soliduck

New member
Dec 13, 2007
9
0
0
He said virtually the same thing a year ago at DICE in his keynote, so this isn't anything new and isn't inspired by Ubisoft.

Videos of his talk from DICE 2009:
http://video.ign.com/dor/articles/958583/dice-2009-panels/videos/_dice09_gabenewell_p1.html
http://video.ign.com/dor/articles/958583/dice-2009-panels/videos/_dice09_gabenewell_p2.html
 

cakeweek

New member
Mar 14, 2010
1
0
0
rembrandtqeinstein said:
Steam is still DRM no matter how you cut it. The chains rest lightly on you but they are still chains.

The point of DRM has never been to stop piracy because you would think that at about 10 years of abject failure they would have given up by now. The point of DRM is to kill the second hand market which costs publishers much more money than piracy ever could. And Steam, along with other digital download services, kills the 2nd hand market.
I disagree. When a game "ages over time" on steam, it gets cheaper, much cheaper. I bought the Orange box on steam, for example, for far less than i would have found it anywhere on the second hand market. I saw Mirrors Edge second hand for 20?, on steam it only cost me 2.35?...
I don't care for a second hand software market/shops, they are far more expensive.

I can only applaud what Valve has done with Steam. I don't see why people complain about it. I guess people just like to complain. Games on DVD and CDROM's are dead, distribution of games software/service is done via internet and services like Steam. This is how it is, get over it.
 

Godhead

Dib dib dib, dob dob dob.
May 25, 2009
1,692
0
0
Khell_Sennet said:
Zer_ said:
Well, don't be too sure. My old StarCraft CDs are so worn out that they are barely usable. Same goes for many of my old games. Digital Distribution doesn't have that risk. Before you say anything, yes I do take care of my games, but 10-15 years of swapping CDs DVDs in and out of drives does in fact have an effect on your CDs. Furthermore, CD/DVD media has a limited lifespan.
To be fair, 15 years is a long time. Steam came out in '03, making it less than half that age. When Steam surpasses 15 years, and every game you ever purchased via or linked to it is still available, we can talk about it being equal or superior. Thus in 2018 this thread will be necro'ed and we can see who was right.
I got 5 bucks on Zer
 

ninjajoeman

New member
Mar 13, 2009
934
0
0
hey gabe nice job with the trophy but can you get BACK IN THE GAME DESIGNING ROOM please thanks...seriously ep 3 is shiny and you keep toying us with it.

please make the game...

please...
 

Flying Dagger

New member
Apr 14, 2009
1,344
0
0
SextusMaximus said:
Gabe Newell, the one who gives me an offline mode that requires the internet? yeah. Shut up Gabe.
Though I only really noticed it when my pc broke and can only run one or two applications at a time (can't run enough system programs to kick off a network connection)
It usually isn't too much of a bother... Though it is irritating.
 

Flying Dagger

New member
Apr 14, 2009
1,344
0
0
cakeweek said:
I can only applaud what Valve has done with Steam. I don't see why people complain about it. I guess people just like to complain. Games on DVD and CDROM's are dead, distribution of games software/service is done via internet and services like Steam. This is how it is, get over it.
For quite a lot of working adults (you know, those weirdos who have jobs and therefore money to buy games, yeah the ones who outnumber us hardcore guys by a large amount) Find it much more time efficient, easier and better to go into a store, buy a real product and then put it on their pc like that.
I know because I posed the exact same point to an industry analyst whilst doing some work for a major bank.
 

Therumancer

Citation Needed
Nov 28, 2007
9,909
0
0
Steam is mostly tolerable because of the sale prices. I still vastly prefer to buy a physical copy of games given the option, though admittedly things like Dawn Of War II and the Ubisoft DRM are making this difficult since nowadays buying a physical disc might just lead to you downloading something digitally anyway.

That said, I'm not going to criticize Gabe too heavily for the moment. Other than to repete that I am disappointed that he did not go toe to toe with the aussies over the L4D2 thing.

Also I can't help but wonder why if he can afford that absolutly ginormous monitor, he's sitting on what seems to be a packing crate or cardboard box.
 

theultimateend

New member
Nov 1, 2007
3,621
0
0
This is why I need a company.

I say this months ago in a much more eloquent fashion and I don't see any dramatic escapist entry.

Time to start saving up my paychecks :p.

cakeweek said:
rembrandtqeinstein said:
Steam is still DRM no matter how you cut it. The chains rest lightly on you but they are still chains.

The point of DRM has never been to stop piracy because you would think that at about 10 years of abject failure they would have given up by now. The point of DRM is to kill the second hand market which costs publishers much more money than piracy ever could. And Steam, along with other digital download services, kills the 2nd hand market.
I disagree. When a game "ages over time" on steam, it gets cheaper, much cheaper. I bought the Orange box on steam, for example, for far less than i would have found it anywhere on the second hand market. I saw Mirrors Edge second hand for 20?, on steam it only cost me 2.35?...
I don't care for a second hand software market/shops, they are far more expensive.

I can only applaud what Valve has done with Steam. I don't see why people complain about it. I guess people just like to complain. Games on DVD and CDROM's are dead, distribution of games software/service is done via internet and services like Steam. This is how it is, get over it.
Not to stomp on steams balls but it is rarely cheaper than Amazon unless the item can't be found by anyone but users.

I like steam but I've gotten physical copies of almost every valve game for cheaper than valve had them on steam for years (not counting 5 hour holiday sale stuff).
 

ThrobbingEgo

New member
Nov 17, 2008
2,765
0
0
The main reasons I put up with Steam are:
1) Valve releases amazing games on the platform, and provides awesome support for those games - often in the form of free content. Look at the love Team Fortress 2's gotten.
2) The sales, man. The sales. During Christmas season, I spent $25 (Canadian!) and got Audiosurf, Indigo Propechy, Splinter Cell Chaos Theory, Ben There Dan That & Time Gentlemen, GrandTheft Auto 4, and STALKER. Ridiculous deals like that more than make up for the used games I've bought at EBGames, at a $5 discount, missing the instruction booklets.

I don't feel the least bit bad about EBGames losing my business. I buy my retro games from local businesses and my PC games off Steam.
 

SimuLord

Whom Gods Annoy
Aug 20, 2008
10,077
0
0
Woodsey said:
"Hey guys, if you buy and register your game with us, you get to install it as many times on as many computers as you want, and you have the option of storing your games in our cloud so you can pick up where you left off no matter the machine!" If Ubisoft had just stuck with that, wouldn't it have encouraged people to buy their games for the goodies?

You can do that without DRM, and there are things on the web that let you store files on a cloud service anyway - there's one to do with a box but the name escapes me.

Hardly an incentive.

Anyway, although Steam is a form of DRM it is pretty unrestrictive (bar a one-time activation) and exceptionally well thought out: constant updates, a great great GREAT store, a good community (a f*cking big one at that), etc. etc.

Oh, and it works (as in, it doesn't stop you from playing the games after that single activation). That's something that GfWL might want to take note of - because it fucks me over every single time.
Indeed. Steam is a prime example of balancing the conflicting needs of customer and business without screwing either party in the process. As a customer, their service gives me everything I could ask for, and as a direct result I spend 90% of my game-buying budget on digital distribution.

Imagine that! Provide value to the customer and make money! What are the odds?
 

Jennacide

New member
Dec 6, 2007
1,019
0
0
destroyer2k said:
Eukaryote said:
SextusMaximus said:
Gabe Newell, the one who gives me an offline mode that requires the internet? yeah. Shut up Gabe.
Offline mode works fine for me, I don't know what's wrong with you
Yes but the problem he is having that you have to be connected to go in offline mode.
Only recently you have, which they've stated time and again this was a bug they're trying to fix. The most recent Steam patch (yesterday) fixed it for me on the Beta UI. Offline works fine, it requires that the game has been verified with the Steam account server ONCE. So if you say, install L4D2 from a retail disc and never go online, then yes Offline Mode won't let you play it. Once Steam connects online with L4D2 once and validates it's serial it adds something to your offline file to let it be played.

The whole Ubisoft fiasco is funny too, because they wanted to make something like Steam and claim that Steam doesn't stop pirates well enough. Gee, what happened today? Oh, right, Ubisoft Launcher got cracked for AC2. Har har Ubisoft. The pirates had to win, or we'd all lose.
 

funksobeefy

New member
Mar 21, 2009
1,007
0
0
I think the greatest thing about this post about steam DRM and Valve head honcho is that he is playing World of Warcraft in the picture.

If you really dont want companies to have intense DRM restrictions, then don't buy their games. If you buy the game but then complain the company doesn't care, they still have you money. Make a point to not buy their game and get all your friends to not buy it. Protests have yet to actually work but if every one did it on a personal level then I think it will work.
 

The DSM

New member
Apr 18, 2009
2,066
0
0
Gabe speaks the truth.

DRM is going to decrease PC gaming if it ends up being too restricitve.
 

John Funk

U.N. Owen Was Him?
Dec 20, 2005
20,364
0
0
Why are so many users in this thread missing the words "overly restrictive" in the bold sentence? It's one thing to not read to the end, where he discusses that Steam is a more rewarding type of DRM, but to not read those two key words in a bold sentence at the top of the page? You might as well have just typed "tl;dr" or "cool story, bro!"
 

Kinichie

Penguin Overlord
Jun 18, 2008
317
0
0
Steam is a form of DRM, yes. But only for the first time you connect to steam using that computer. After that, I've had no problems with Offline mode for any game. I have more problems when steam is Online.

The thing with steam, as opposed to other forms of DRM is that it ISN'T tit-fucking annoying.

Examples;

Batman Arkham Asylum. My housemate at the time was playing the game. I turned on the 360 and his Windows Live account signed in automatically (on the 360), kicking him to the Main Menu INSTANTLY. He lost about 5-10 minutes of progress, not much, but still gave us both something to rant about.

Grand Theft Auto 4: Bought this on steam over Christmas, only to find that Steam is no longer the prime DRM, but Rockstar Club(?) also has to be running aswell as Games for Windows Live. No wonder the game runs bad when there is so much hogging the RAM. And the DRM is still on my computer and I uninstalled the damn thing!

However, not saying Steam doesn't have it's moments. Sometimes when I try to launch a game, I get the message "Game is unavailable at this time". Seriously, what does this mean?!? Has Borderlands taken a holiday from my hard drive? Is Half Life 2 no longer a playable game? Have my crazy Antics in Garry's Mod caused steam to question my sanity and prevent me from destroying more Combine Soldiers with elaborate devices? The game is sat there, ON THE HARD DRIVE. Fully validated, it just doesn't work because it's having a tea break.
 

Legendsmith

New member
Mar 9, 2010
622
0
0
SextusMaximus said:
Gabe Newell, the one who gives me an offline mode that requires the internet? yeah. Shut up Gabe.
They fixed that.
Deathfish15 said:
I only had to read the title header and the first sentence to agree with it.

Ex.:

Ruse is a great RTS game that I love and would buy in a heartbeat....however it's got Ubisoft's new DRM that requires you to be connected to their servers 24/7 when playing the game otherwise you cannot play it. That I do not mind for the multiplayer part, but for singleplayer campaign or skirmishes against the AI, I find that utterly ridiculous. It's a great game and many in the open beta have said the same thing: "would have bought if it wasn't by Ubisoft with the dreaded DRM".
That's why I'm not getting it.
 

Spitfire175

New member
Jul 1, 2009
1,373
0
0
Just thought I'd share this [http://manzano.nncdn.com/nn/0/873/533/o_561503.gif] with you guys.

Way to go, Ubisoft.
 

HateDread

New member
Jan 20, 2009
248
0
0
Spitfire175 said:
Just thought I'd share this [http://manzano.nncdn.com/nn/0/873/533/o_561503.gif] with you guys.

Way to go, Ubisoft.
Don't normally quote, but...

Perfect.
 

Withard

New member
Feb 4, 2010
180
0
0
Best thing about this thread is the posts that like to tell us Steam is a form of DRM....but as if they are onto some kind of breakthrough.

"STEAM IS DRM!"

well done...Now discover fire please.
 

John Funk

U.N. Owen Was Him?
Dec 20, 2005
20,364
0
0
Gabe is right, and Ubisoft made a mess of things. Us pc gamers get punished while people use xbox pirates -_- Gabe is still a jerk for not making HL 2 EP 3 already.
 

smithy_2045

New member
Jan 30, 2008
2,561
0
0
rembrandtqeinstein said:
Steam is still DRM no matter how you cut it. The chains rest lightly on you but they are still chains.

The point of DRM has never been to stop piracy because you would think that at about 10 years of abject failure they would have given up by now. The point of DRM is to kill the second hand market which costs publishers much more money than piracy ever could. And Steam, along with other digital download services, kills the 2nd hand market.
I highly doubt that the point of DRM has never been to stop piracy.
 

Enigmers

New member
Dec 14, 2008
1,745
0
0
Zer_ said:
Well, don't be too sure. My old StarCraft CDs are so worn out that they are barely usable. Same goes for many of my old games. Digital Distribution doesn't have that risk. Before you say anything, yes I do take care of my games, but 10-15 years of swapping CDs DVDs in and out of drives does in fact have an effect on your CDs. Furthermore, CD/DVD media has a limited lifespan.
You can register them online via battle.net and download them.

Best of both worlds, really. (Digital and Physical)
 

Squilookle

New member
Nov 6, 2008
3,515
0
0
SextusMaximus said:
Gabe Newell, the one who gives me an offline mode that requires the internet? yeah. Shut up Gabe.
ex-ACTLY

Steam is far from painless, that's for sure. Give me a cardboard box, freshly printed manual, and a cd key code anyday.
 

DrScoobs

New member
Mar 6, 2009
480
0
0
SextusMaximus said:
Gabe Newell, the one who gives me an offline mode that requires the internet? yeah. Shut up Gabe.
except it doesnt require the internet.
 

SextusMaximus

Nightingale Assassin
May 20, 2009
3,508
0
0
metroidgearsolid said:
SextusMaximus said:
Gabe Newell, the one who gives me an offline mode that requires the internet? yeah. Shut up Gabe.
except it doesnt require the internet.
Christ... what I was getting at was it's a dodgy piece of software. If you don't start offline mode when you have an internet connection, you wont be able to go into offline mode, which I think is frankly ridiculous. I understand why they do this - but if I open up my laptop ready to play Garry's Mod or ME2 when I haven't opened it up in offline mode beforehand while I was in an area with internet connection youcan see why I get annoyed.

/Mordin Solus rant.
 

DrScoobs

New member
Mar 6, 2009
480
0
0
SextusMaximus said:
metroidgearsolid said:
SextusMaximus said:
Gabe Newell, the one who gives me an offline mode that requires the internet? yeah. Shut up Gabe.
except it doesnt require the internet.
Christ... what I was getting at was it's a dodgy piece of software. If you don't start offline mode when you have an internet connection, you wont be able to go into offline mode, which I think is frankly ridiculous. I understand why they do this - but if I open up my laptop ready to play Garry's Mod or ME2 when I haven't opened it up in offline mode beforehand while I was in an area with internet connection youcan see why I get annoyed.

/Mordin Solus rant.
you can go into offline mode when you have started it with internet connection. go to file then click go offline. there ya go. steam is now offline.
 

Mr.Governor

New member
Nov 10, 2009
201
0
0
ninjajoeman said:
seriously ep 3 is shiny and you keep toying us with it.

please make the game...

please...
Malicious said:
Gabe is still a jerk for not making HL 2 EP 3 already.
Sorry but
Portal 2>Ep3
SextusMaximus said:
Gabe Newell, the one who gives me an offline mode that requires the internet? yeah. Shut up Gabe.

lies
 

xavierxenon

New member
Aug 10, 2009
412
0
0
Valve co-founder Gabe Newell thinks that overly restrictive DRM ultimately devalues a product.
Oh right, and forcing a game onto Steam which means I can never sell that game(without my entire account) or lend it to a friend isn't overly restrictive?

I'm glad I only use Steam as a way to contact people now.
 

Mikester1290

New member
Jun 29, 2010
116
0
0
Flying Dagger said:
cakeweek said:
I can only applaud what Valve has done with Steam. I don't see why people complain about it. I guess people just like to complain. Games on DVD and CDROM's are dead, distribution of games software/service is done via internet and services like Steam. This is how it is, get over it.
For quite a lot of working adults (you know, those weirdos who have jobs and therefore money to buy games, yeah the ones who outnumber us hardcore guys by a large amount) Find it much more time efficient, easier and better to go into a store, buy a real product and then put it on their pc like that.
I know because I posed the exact same point to an industry analyst whilst doing some work for a major bank.
Well to be honest, it's not really much quicker to go buy the game in a store really is it? Unless you have an extremelly poo internet connection, or the game is some epically large capacity. Don't forget that you have to install the game once you get back home, Steam downloads and installs at the same time.

Steam also offers another advantage, put steam on a seperate drive and when/if the time comes you have to reinstall windows for whatever reason that's not a problem because the games will just work, a lot of games installed from cd's will not just work in my own experience due dll's and maybe other things, if anything IS missing.. Guess what? Steam uses it's magic and fixes those problems automatically. Maybe I'm wrong but that's I what I've seen for myself.

Steam wasn't such a great thing when it was relativley new, I used to FLUCKING hate it, the offline mode did have problems, but the platform has been massivley refined. So NERR!

Oh and another thing, for people saying that Steam massively devalues the second hand market, yep your right and you could probably go off on a tangent on that topic alone for ever. Noone has mentioned the Gifting (which I know doesn't apply to many games) What are peoples opinions on that please???