Generalized Ammunition.

[madster11]

Well considering REAL guns use generalized ammo, it's good to have up to a point. A good example would be making SMGs and Pistols use the same ammo (as in real life), and making sniper rifles and assault rifles use the same ammo (again, IRL).

This is for most games, by the way. You can get more specific with, like, 5.56, 7.62, 9mm, .45, .50bmg etc in certain games and it's fun, but for MOST games general ammo is a relatively good idea. A lot better than games like CoD, where you will always end up using the same gun as the enemies, despite 5.56 being used in a shitton of weapons.


For the people i pissed off with the 'sniper and assualt rifles use the same round', 7.62x51 NATO. More punch than the 5.56 and thus more useful for killing instead of wounding, because these are video games and we're not aiming to wound the terrorists and russians.

 

[rob_simple]

Yeah, but I think that maybe had more to do with the fact that the weapons you could change your gun into were so bland and unoriginal. I mean, if you've got a gun that can turn into absolutely anything then the only limit is a developers imagination. Maybe if the mechanic worked more like you could scan things in the environment and they become weapons, similar to Dead Rising 2 but in a shooter context.

That way, you could just be boring and replicate the enemy's guns, or you could scan the properties of fire and engineer a flamethrower; burst open a fire hydrant and create a riot hose; smash a window and create shrapnel grenades or powder glass bombs to use as traps...those are pretty basic ideas but I think it could have potential.

Ah, misunderstood what you were getting at originally. As for that idea, I have to say... That actually sounds quite awesome...

The main problem I could see with it though is that it would turn into something too contextual. Suddenly the environment would just be littered with set pieces for the weapon. Has a lot of potential for an idea, but the execution for it would need to be just right, and would be quite difficult to pull off.

Yeah I agree, it would most likely end up like the Dead Rising 2/puzzle game logic where you have use the exact combination the developer was thinking instead of experimenting. I'm hopeful that with more powerful new consoles, though, there will be a lot more scope for open-ended customisation mechanics. Now I'm picturing a game where the player is weighing up the stat bars hovering over a piece of slate as opposed to a half brick, or some gravel...

It would even fit into this awful focus on social media, because you could share unique weapons you've made with friends, or sell them to other players for in-game currency.

 

[rob_simple]

Am I the only one who hates ammo full stop?

I can understand the need for reloading, but searching round and having to faff about with ammo and inventory management just bogs games down IMO.

I'm an old school gamer from 20 years ago who's only just recently returned to playing, and some of the games I've played which are lorded as "greatest shooters ever" are nothing but constant loot-searches.

I've just finished Bioshock and you can dispense a full arsenal in no-time - all you seem to do is be forever hunting round for goods. It's tedious.

I don't want to come across all 'you're doing it wrong' but if you run out of all the ammo for your weapons and plasmids in Bioshock, then you are probably not playing it properly.

Some games are bad for ammo-conservation (I spent more time in Resistance 2 trying to find ammo for one of the two guns I was allowed than I did actually playing through the piece of shit) but for the most part, if you're tactical with your shooting and use other methods of dispatch (grenades, melee, environmental kills) you shouldn't have to conduct scavenger hunts every five minutes.

 

[Kael Arawn]

It depends on the game i think the entire universal ammo thing can work if implemented properly and i love the fact that universal ammo cuts down on micro management but running out of ALL AMMO TYPES simultaneously sucks as well.

So universal ammo as a whole seems to be the ol' "double edged sword".

I also liked deus ex: invisible war, i found it a entertaining and surprisingly deep game with TINY TINY locations, also the omar where pure awesome!

INSERT "OMG YOU SUCK COS YOU LIKE INVISIBLE WAR COMMENTS HERE"

 

[rob_simple]

I don't want to come across all 'you're doing it wrong' but if you run out of all the ammo for your weapons and plasmids in Bioshock, then you are probably not playing it properly.

Some games are bad for ammo-conservation (I spent more time in Resistance 2 trying to find ammo for one of the two guns I was allowed than I did actually playing through the piece of shit) but for the most part, if you're tactical with your shooting and use other methods of dispatch (grenades, melee, environmental kills) you shouldn't have to conduct scavenger hunts every five minutes.

No problem mate. It's not that I'm running out because I don't feel i have enough though, it's that I want to let loose and rage out without having to go through the constant chore of searching for ammo afterwards. Yes you can get through the game without having to do that, but it's just fun to and the game just feels a bit to reserved.

I think the fact that you essentially cant die either also makes the whole ammo/health thing a bit silly and pointless. I guess I'd just like to see a few old-school games where such things weren't a concern and you can just enjoy the action. I think Mass Effect's overheat and shield-regen system was great and a step in the right direction.

That's a really good point, now that you mention it. I used to love going absolutely mental in Duke Nukem and Doom, but modern shooters have become a lot more conservative in that aspect. I'd never even really noticed before; I guess taking a break from games really does give you a fresh perspective.

In the case of Bioshock, at least, I think the story and atmosphere make up for the general lack of difficulty and rampaging. If that's what you're after though, and you've not already played it, I'd heavily recommend picking up The Darkness 2. It's probably the best shooter I've played this generation, and even when you run out of ammo you can tear up the environment and use that as weapons or grab guns out of the hands of distant enemies.

 

[Something Amyss]

Don't forget protagonists that eat bullets like they're Cheerios.

Mmmmm...Part of a balanced breakfast.

condescendingly

Please don't infer things not offered by me and then blame me for them. If you do not like my posts, you are always free to ignore me. If you think they are out of sorts, you can always report me.

I will, however note that you ignored the actual valid statement I made in favour of inferring such statements on me. Make if that what you will, but if realism is a question related to this, then taking a decidedly UNrealistic route is counter-intuitive. This is only pedantry if the issue is the word at hand, and I don't think it is. I think the problem here goes significantly deeper than verbage.

He is, in fact, speaking out in favour of a form of generalised ammunition, for one.

Speaking of:

reloading early meant you lost whatever ammo was still left in the clip

I didn't know DS3 did that. Now that actually adds a realistic element to weapons systems. A shame it's combined with the already-mentioned "ammo like candy" routine, though that can happen in any game. And really, it's not necessarily a bad thing (though considering all they did to strip the horror out of DS3, it probably is a bad thing there).

 

[Frotality]

depends entirely on the game and what each gun is used for. bioshock takes care to make each weapon fairly distinct, especially when you upgrade them all separately. separate ammo not only makes functional sense, but it also helps make each weapon seem more unique.

as much as i am against it, it did make sense in ME2, if you were going to have a boring old ammo system, that was the way. you could only carry the weapons of your class, and each class is meant to be tactically distinct as opposed to each weapon, so a catch-all ammunition makes sense.

 

[Rottweiler]

I could go on both sides of the issue.

Honestly, in reference to Bioshock...I couldn't see 'generic ammo' across the board. The time period and weapons involved really favor the 'old fashioned' style. The farther back you go, the more specific ammunition for firearms is.

 

[bug_of_war]

I'm kinda swinging both ways on this topic. On one hand I have no ill baring towards games that force me to find ammo Z for weapon Z etc. but there are also games where in which the universal ammo makes sense/helps whilst still making the game tough. For example, Payday: The Heist's difficulty is based on 2 factors, ammo and enemy AI wearing body armour. Without EVERY ammo drop working for all weapons that game would be annoying and would make most players play the exact same way out of fear of not having enough ammo. As for Mass Effect the in game codex reasoned that the ammo clips weren't ammo clips, but heat sinks that absorbed the heat and made it so that the weapon could fire more rapidly etc.

So yeah, on the fence with this topic.

 

[DeadEyeDan]

It depends on the game i think the entire universal ammo thing can work if implemented properly and i love the fact that universal ammo cuts down on micro management but running out of ALL AMMO TYPES simultaneously sucks as well.

So universal ammo as a whole seems to be the ol' "double edged sword".

I also liked deus ex: invisible war, i found it a entertaining and surprisingly deep game with TINY TINY locations, also the omar where pure awesome!

INSERT "OMG YOU SUCK COS YOU LIKE INVISIBLE WAR COMMENTS HERE"

Universal ammo is a bit of a shit mechanic, and one which hinders Deus Ex: Invisible War (I do really like the game though as well, just always irked by the ammo mechanic).

Fallout: New Vegas and the STALKER series do it best with the varying ammo types required for varying weapons and special ammunitions etc.

 

[Kael Arawn]

It?s completely subjective, things such as the style of game, if it?s a ball?s to the wall blau fest, a slower paced stealthier kind of game play, is a realistic portrayal of a military and modern guns, is it spunkgargleweewee, is your setting based in the future with FRIKEN LAZER BEAMS with a universal power source, or a dystopian society with limited resources left over from the world that was, etc.

So depending on the game and the type of mechanic the developer is trying to create universal ammo can be a blessing or a curse.

In games like Metro 2033/S.T.A.L.K.E.R universal ammo would destroy the game as weight of a round, availability of ammo type, etc all directly tie into the mechanics at play and have an impact on the world.

Where as in Dead Space 3 the universal ammo system works really well because of the build your own gun mechanic and the game is much better because of it, also payday is a perfect examples of universal ammo working exceptionally well but other have pointed that out

So I can?t definitely say ?yes, this type of ammo system from game x is the best? as not all systems would work in all games as its a design question.

Still I?m a huge fan of games like metro where ammo is selective and scares but I really liked the universal ammo system in Deus Ex 2 (am I allowed to call it that?) as it matched the game I was presented with, but then we all know my opinion isn?t worth crape' as I liked Deus Ex: Invisible war

Also im clearly fence sitting on the subject.