Getting raped is like getting a flat tire. Also, it's God's will. Fancy that.

[Char-Nobyl]

And what I am taking from this is yet another reason for my extreme anti-theism. I hate religion in all its forms. Gods will my arse. Fucking knobjockey.

Right...but it's literally the exact same move as saying, "Look on the bright side." They just decided to add 'God' to the sentence, presumably in an effort to make even the religious-yet-reasonable look insane.

Overdramatized.

This thread, that article, and rape in general. It's all over dramatized.

I wouldn't equate it with a spare tire, but I wouldn't equate it with a mind shattering life altering experience either.

Wow. I...really didn't see that coming.

Hear that, everyone? Rape isn't that big of a deal.

Also the whole making abortions legally implausible(the actual issue of the article, not the shock jock attention grabber) is just going to end up with a lot of self abortions again, I can't wait for the backfire. I want to never understand the train of thought that these guys follow, but unfortunately I do understand it.

*sigh* See, "understanding" someone's train of thought is not the same as thinking it's correct, intelligent, or anything positive like that. If someone tried to bathe themselves with orange juice, saying that OJ and water are both liquids and therefore both must be good for personal hygiene, I can see their thought process, but it won't make me think they're any less of a retard.

Yeah, I heard about this shit. I'm going to say it first. This is what happens when the majority of lawmakers are men. Yeah, I know, that's simplistic. But I still think it's true. Very few men have ever felt the fear of being raped. I can't think of a single woman over 30 who hasn't at some point been terribly afraid of just this thing.

...I prefer reasoning besides, "Oh, they're unsympathetic because they're men." It implies that men are, by nature, insensitive assholes on issues of rape. Why does grasping that a terrible crime is, you know, terrible require that they first have it dangled over their heads?

Flat tires just don't really strike that kind of fear into my heart. Unless it's a flat, in the middle of the night, on the highway. Then I'm afraid of what kind of man will stop by my vehicle as I change it, you know, and possibly rape me.

A flat tire is an inconvenience, like missing a train connection. It rarely poses an active threat to the driver, and the end result is usually just a loss of time. Hell, tires inevitably wear out and develop leaks if you drive with even moderate frequency. If you drive and never have a flat tire in your life, it's because you regularly changed the tires, and you're lucky you never drove over razor blades or something.

That being said...ehh...I can't see any of those factors being comparable to a rape. If you wait too long to take preventative action during your normal, everyday routine, you're going to get a flat tire. I guess that's an interesting question, though: what's the rape-equivalent of changing/rotating your tires?

I'm sorry. But to say that the man's statements are trivializing it is a longshot.

The man says "We should plan ahead for circumstances which might be out of our control" and then goes on to say. "I have a tire in my car and insurance". Because you don't get in a car and drive any sort of distance without being prepared for a blow out, and you don't go through life without having the capacity to get back on your feet after a horrible accident.

So the idea that he's trivializing it, is simply stupid.

Right then, here's the main issue: a flat tire is an accident, and the form of insurance he mentioned (life) is for a condition that, thus far, 100% of humanity has contracted (Sudden Onset End-of-Life Syndrome). In the former, unless you were actively neglecting the condition of your tires (which would be hard if you're supposed to be forward-thinking enough to keep a spare), then it is literally no one's fault. Rape is most decidedly someone's fault, and by that, I of course mean "the person doing the raping."

As for the latter...it's life insurance. Unless you count the Grim Reaper as the world's most notorious serial killer (modus operandi: 'natural causes'), then that is rarely anyone's fault, either.

Now what is a problem is him saying that preparedness is important while gutting insurance mandates that permit women to have abortions and instead requiring them to purchase additional coverage for it. That IS deplorable and he should be called out on that rather than some imaginary claim that he's trivializing rape in the name of God or some such nonsense.

Or, alternatively, we can call him on both rather than go through the unnecessary process of choosing one or the other. There's no statute of limitations on douchebaggery.

 

[Kopikatsu]

-Snip-

-Snip-

He who giveth may also taketh away.

Humans only have a limited degree of free will based on their level of consciousness. It's painfully easy to manipulate humans based on their environment or simply by phrasing a statement differently.

Also, becoming catatonic takes away your physical free will. Suffering from severe or catastrophic brain damage takes away your mental free will. Since God doesn't prevent either of these things from happening, and according to you, taking away free will is the greatest of evils...then God is not willing to prevent evil. :x

 

[Char-Nobyl]

America, this is why I, as a European intellectual conservative, love republicans.

As long as they are around, we will always feel superior to you. Thank you for electing people who would feel more at home in Pakistan and Iran than in Britain or Denmark.

Ah. So the German native is scoffing at America's poor judgment in choosing their elected officials.

I really don't like taking cheap historical shots/invoking Godwin's Law, but the arrogance of the quote put those reservations to rest.

Bill Maher said it best, really (just to show that my opinion is the same as that of those Americans who have chosen to leave the 18th century behind).

Delightful: more backdoor compliments to yourself, hidden behind still more smug remarks.

The measure of a country's civilisation today is measured in the three G's - God, guns, and gays. If those still are a matter of actual political discourse, then the country in question is barbaric.

Nothing quite like taking the hyperbolic words of a comedian and embracing them on a literal level.

In other news, congratulations! You're on the intellectual level of the officials who booked Stephen Colbert to speak at the White House correspondence dinner!

Same with abortion. You see, I am morally opposed to it personally, but since I am an enlightened, educated person, I can see the difference between my personal morals and what should be the law of the land.

Uh-huh. So you're of weak moral fiber, then? Either that, or you're just lying. I can't think of any reason that you'd be "morally opposed" to something (with a non-religious reason, if your previous quote implies your opinion of religion) and still think it's fine to have around.

Republicans, it seems, cannot make that kind of intellectual leap. But then, they get their "opinions" from Fox News and adore Sarah Palin, so using the word "intellectual" when discussing them isn't really appropriate anyway.

I've long since figured that Fox News was some sort of comedian conspiracy to guarantee that they'll never run out of material. Not only does it make sense, it also staves off despair-induced alcoholism!

 

[Meggiepants]

Yeah, I heard about this shit. I'm going to say it first. This is what happens when the majority of lawmakers are men. Yeah, I know, that's simplistic. But I still think it's true. Very few men have ever felt the fear of being raped. I can't think of a single woman over 30 who hasn't at some point been terribly afraid of just this thing.

...I prefer reasoning besides, "Oh, they're unsympathetic because they're men." It implies that men are, by nature, insensitive assholes on issues of rape. Why does grasping that a terrible crime is, you know, terrible require that they first have it dangled over their heads?

Fair point.

My implication was more that because their are so few women in congress, this kind of thinking is allowed to go on unchecked. Not because men can't understand what rape is and how terrible it is, though, I'm going to say that unless someone has been in said situation, they can't exactly understand it. At best, they can empathize. I don't know what it's like to go to war either. I'm not going to be so arrogant as to say that I understand what those soldiers go through simply because I've read up on it and seen movies.

And you are correct, not all men are insensitive assholes like this. My point was more along the lines of, if women had as much power as men in lawmaking, perhaps there would be less room for guys like Brent Crane to get up there and spout their nonsense.

Course, then you'd have all new nonsense to deal with.

 

[Raskolnikov34]

And how does God creating Man, setting into motion all the future chain of events, rob him of his free will? I don't really follow that...

It's difficult to believe you're actually asking this. Let me give you an example and see if you can translate the similarities into the proper logical conclusion:

So let's say I drop a dog out of an airplane. That is the only event we have. Are there infinite possibilities? Of course not. We can reasonably conclude everything that is going to happen. The dog will probably flail about for a while, might stop and look around if it isn't spinning, will whine or bark and try to run in mid-air. Its ears may pop from the difference in pressure. Then it will inevitably hit the ground.

Free will.

God setting things into motion and have foreknowledge of all future events in no way robs man of his free will. The end goal is inevitable (death, and either heaven or hell; in your example, hitting the ground would be analogous), but man has the freedom to choose how he lives his life before this final end. Your analogy breaks down in that the final destination doesn't change depending on how the dog behaves during the fall; whereas for man it does.

 

[Raskolnikov34]

If God (and by God you mean the Christian God)is all-good, how could something evil be his will? Regardless of your opinions on Christianity, that just isn't logical.

The devil is a player too. This is preached alot in other texts besides the bible that balance must exist. God and Satan are both equal in power and influence the world on the same magnitude. We as humans love to hear about suffering and misery that doesn't happen to us, so we only focus on the bad.

No, that's a Manichean heresy and has never been accepted by the Church.

 

[Raskolnikov34]

If God (and by God you mean the Christian God)is all-good, how could something evil be his will? Regardless of your opinions on Christianity, that just isn't logical.

See the Inconsistent Triad. If God is all powerful, then he can't be all good as evil happens. If he is all good, then he cannot be all powerful as he cannot stop it. Pretty much shows you why the Christian God doesn't quite work.

OT: Wow... urm, it's stories like this that make me feel so sorry for Christians. How are they expected to practice they're religion when you have psychos like this representing them...

Yeah, I don't want this thread to turn into a debate on the Problem of Evil though (which you and several others have commented on).

OT: This guy is a complete idiot, I just hope people won't project his skewed ideas on all Christians...

 

[artanis_neravar]

-Snip-

-Snip-

He who giveth may also taketh away.

Humans only have a limited degree of free will based on their level of consciousness. It's painfully easy to manipulate humans based on their environment or simply by phrasing a statement differently.

Also, becoming catatonic takes away your physical free will. Suffering from severe or catastrophic brain damage takes away your mental free will. Since God doesn't prevent either of these things from happening, and according to you, taking away free will is the greatest of evils...then God is not willing to prevent evil. :x

god is not willing to prevent evil by committing evil because that would introduce more evil into the world. And neither of those take away your free will they just take away your capability to act on your free will.

Also
If god in omniscient, and knows everything, then man can not have free will, how can god know what we will do before we even decide to do it? therefore nothing we do matters or is our own fault.
If god gave man free will then god cannot possibly know everything and cannot be omniscient.

 

[artanis_neravar]

If God (and by God you mean the Christian God)is all-good, how could something evil be his will? Regardless of your opinions on Christianity, that just isn't logical.

The devil is a player too. This is preached alot in other texts besides the bible that balance must exist. God and Satan are both equal in power and influence the world on the same magnitude. We as humans love to hear about suffering and misery that doesn't happen to us, so we only focus on the bad.

Satan was an angel created by god, and therefore is in no way equal to god. Satan has no real power except the power to manipulate man with words and actions

 

[funguy2121]

Actually, I agree with DeGraaf and support such motions in politics. As a conscious misogynist, I'm very pleased to have people like DeGraaf in office, and when it comes to rape involving women, I've always supported the blame-the-victim stance, what with the way women prance around with a stifling air of entitlement and unwarranted bitchy attitudes.

The feminists are friggin' takin' over, people! And old farts in office are keeping them at bay! Women get too much leeway already, as far as I see it; there are so many favorable double standards in play for them that it sickens me. That's why news like this always puts a smile on my face.

And no, I can't be asked to explain why I'm taking this position, so don't bother asking. But yeah, keep DeGraaf in office!

"Conscious misogynist." Tee hee.

You know, quite a few people say "conscious" when what they mean is "conscience." Are you suggesting that you're a woman-hater with a conscience? And your strategy to get tha bitches back into their aprons is to up the rape rate?

So, this is for attention, right?

 

[shitoutonme]

Actually, I agree with DeGraaf and support such motions in politics. As a conscious misogynist, I'm very pleased to have people like DeGraaf in office, and when it comes to rape involving women, I've always supported the blame-the-victim stance, what with the way women prance around with a stifling air of entitlement and unwarranted bitchy attitudes.

The feminists are friggin' takin' over, people! And old farts in office are keeping them at bay! Women get too much leeway already, as far as I see it; there are so many favorable double standards in play for them that it sickens me. That's why news like this always puts a smile on my face.

And no, I can't be asked to explain why I'm taking this position, so don't bother asking. But yeah, keep DeGraaf in office!

"Conscious misogynist." Tee hee.

You know, quite a few people say "conscious" when what they mean is "conscience." Are you suggesting that you're a woman-hater with a conscience? And your strategy to get tha bitches back into their aprons is to up the rape rate?

So, this is for attention, right?

You misunderstood. Concerning the "conscious" part, I used the correct word. Basically, a lot of men who hate women aren't even conscious of that hate, but I am. I know for a fact that I kind of hate women, although "hate" is pretty strong of a word. I just can't be around them for very long; but even so, I can't deny that I'm extremely attracted to them sexually. This is why none of my relationships don't last longer than 6 months. I either end up getting dumped by the girl for being distant, neglectful, and indifferent, or I break up with her because I find her annoying and insufferable. Really, I wouldn't even bother talking to women if I weren't sexually attracted to them, but that's a whole 'nother thread.

And no, this isn't for attention, I genuinely agree with DeGraaf and don't really give a crap about womens' rights and whatnot.

 

[funguy2121]

there was an article i read... i cannot remember where... and i am an atheist who respects logical people who choose to have faith... but in this article... more a short story really... a man has a conversation with god, by the end of it the man comes to the realization that good and evil are words, and what makes an action "good" or "evil" is defined by man, and further man was not given free will, but free will is a consequence of being a sentient creature. god controls everything but to unmake free will would be to unmake man as a whole... thus he prevents evil through the actions of good men who choose to be good via their own free will...

i am still unconvinced of religion, but i have yet to hear something more moving.

You should read Nietzsche - Beyond Good and Evil. You'll stay unconvinced of imaginary sky man, but you'll have a fascinating deconstruction of those childish concepts.

Please. He stole that idea from Ubisoft the same way that Cameron stole drop ships and guns from Halo

 

[funguy2121]

snip

3 things.

1. Denise ain't as cute as she was back then.
2. Rape has nothing to do with attraction, except maybe in the cases involving loser date rapists. So a woman's attractiveness really has nothing to do with it. Personally, I would've gone with Scarlett Johannsen for my example, except she has a penis

3. I think you're underestimating the Christian Right. This man, as many of his colleagues, is on a crusade to overturn or subvert Roe V. Wade any way he can. His statements have nothing to do with rape prevention, and if he ever spoke of rape prevention I am fairly certain he'd be one of the uninformed dolts suggesting that women cover up as a deterrent. Of Course there are things women can do (and things that we can all do) to prevent specific rapes and lower the overall amount of rapes occurring, but that is a separate issue and has nothing to do with the congressman's argument. This sort of cold unempathetic rhetoric is common amongst fringe pro-lifers who view everyone who goes through with an abortion as a murderer who deserves whatever has happened to them. THAT is what informs his opinions, or else he wouldn't say dismissive things such as this.

 

[jakefongloo]

If God (and by God you mean the Christian God)is all-good, how could something evil be his will? Regardless of your opinions on Christianity, that just isn't logical.

The devil is a player too. This is preached alot in other texts besides the bible that balance must exist. God and Satan are both equal in power and influence the world on the same magnitude. We as humans love to hear about suffering and misery that doesn't happen to us, so we only focus on the bad.

No, that's a Manichean heresy and has never been accepted by the Church.

I don't really care what the church thinks about this and that. I think religion helps visualize faith but isn't the direct cause of it. Like pictures in a book.

 

[funguy2121]

snip

Just to clear a couple of things up, SNL's Seth Meyer spoke at this year's White House Correspondents' Dinner. It's always a comic, and there's always a roast. Also, Stephen Colbert is most definitely an intellectual, as are the overwhelming majority of his fans. Bill Maher is more a commentator now than a comic, and is better informed on the issues than most of the people holding office.

 

[funguy2121]

Actually, I agree with DeGraaf and support such motions in politics. As a conscious misogynist, I'm very pleased to have people like DeGraaf in office, and when it comes to rape involving women, I've always supported the blame-the-victim stance, what with the way women prance around with a stifling air of entitlement and unwarranted bitchy attitudes.

The feminists are friggin' takin' over, people! And old farts in office are keeping them at bay! Women get too much leeway already, as far as I see it; there are so many favorable double standards in play for them that it sickens me. That's why news like this always puts a smile on my face.

And no, I can't be asked to explain why I'm taking this position, so don't bother asking. But yeah, keep DeGraaf in office!

"Conscious misogynist." Tee hee.

You know, quite a few people say "conscious" when what they mean is "conscience." Are you suggesting that you're a woman-hater with a conscience? And your strategy to get tha bitches back into their aprons is to up the rape rate?

So, this is for attention, right?

You misunderstood. Concerning the "conscious" part, I used the correct word. Basically, a lot of men who hate women aren't even conscious of that hate, but I am. I know for a fact that I kind of hate women, although "hate" is pretty strong of a word. I just can't be around them for very long; but even so, I can't deny that I'm extremely attracted to them sexually. This is why none of my relationships don't last longer than 6 months. I either end up getting dumped by the girl for being distant, neglectful, and indifferent, or I break up with her because I find her annoying and insufferable. Really, I wouldn't even bother talking to women if I weren't sexually attracted to them, but that's a whole 'nother thread.

And no, this isn't for attention, I genuinely agree with DeGraaf and don't really give a crap about womens' rights and whatnot.

Um...enjoy your un-happiness, I guess?

 

[Grospoliner]

Wow, and just yesterday someone told me this is one of the better places to debate serious issues. Hope you train regularly in martial arts, because an attitude like that turns the possibility of you getting punched in the face into a significant likelihood. Unlike girls wearing short skirts, I think you might actually be asking for it dude. Putting a flat tire and significant physical, emotional, psychological and above all sociological trauma on the same level is the issue here, if the guy couldn't come up with a better analogy than that, he really has no conception of what rape so often is. I don't know a lot of people who's lives are shattered by a flat tire dude.

In all seriousness, do you carry a gun and a first aid kit everywhere you go on the off chance you might be assaulted by a stranger? Do you know CPR on the off chance you might watch a good friend get seriously injured? Do you have a backyard nuclear bumker in case of Russian aggression? If so, then please continue with the bizzarre lack of understanding, and please, close and lock the bunker door. While you're inside. Seriously.

You have failed to take what I said at face value. I do not know why you are reading so much into a simple statement of the obvious. At no point was rape compared to being an accident or any other misinterpretation of what I have said that you may have made. I think you need to take your emotional response down a notch as you are the one being combative. The statement was made to illustrate the need for preparedness. You have also failed to actually debate anything I said.

If you wish to read into things, might I present an alternative meaning to the tire? Tire blow outs can cause serious life threatening accidents. They can cause multiple car accidents, hurt, main, and kill people. People are struck while changing tires on the highway. I hope this is sufficient.

As for the subject of preparedness, I seek to remain as prepared as possible for any realistic potential event as well as any potential outcome for my own actions. The latter is known as being accountable for my actions. I do not leave my house improperly clothed for the weather; I do not drive my car without making sure it is safe; I do not drive my car without the proper seasonal items stocked in it; I do not drive my car without tools I may need to fix it; I have been trained to give first aid in the event of an emergency because I may be the only one present to give aid; I am trained in the use of fire arms because I may need to defend myself, others, or the nation; I am trained in orientation and wilderness survival, because I may be stranded in the wild and need to survive, rather than wait for rescue. I am trained to be prepared, because someone needs to be in the event something goes horribly wrong. While others are panicked and causing more problems than they remedy, I will be conducting myself in a manner befitting a human being. So ask yourself, if an emergency ever occurs that is beyond your control, what will you be doing? Saving lives or bleeding out on the sidewalk.

The next time you misunderstand something I have said, I shall clarify it once more for you. The next time you seek to mock me for my way of life, I will once more put you in your place. The next time you would actually care to debate something, try debating it.