Getting tired of the "It's okay when Nintendo does it" excuse

Ghostface2206

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Apr 6, 2013
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Well hello there, you know something that has annoyed me recently? Hyrule Warriors getting quite a bit of costume dlc and other sorts of dlc including retailer-specific dlc, pre-order dlc even a season pass etc. Want to know why this annoys me?

Because for a while Nintendo was praised for not having that much DLC, with 100% of the game coming on disk and a lot of nintendo fans being against dlc like this.

But now I see comments like "nintendo does dlc right!" and I fail to see how they're doing dlc differently to anyone else. It feels like fanboyism when I see comments like that.

I know that costume dlc is a very basic thing but that's what annoys me here, there's enough space on the disk for these costumes, they just choose to cut them out of the game to sell to us later on (or immediately in this case -_-)

I guess it can be said that this is Tecmo Koei's decision seeing as they're developing the game and it's a spin off in the style of their own Warriors series, but there are rumours of dlc characters for the new smash bros and there's the dlc that mario kart 8 is getting (though I dont consider that AS bad as this because they made that content after the game's release...at least I think they did...)

But yeah are you guys tired of Nintendo fanboys making excuses too? (I myself am a big nintendo fan and a big Zelda fan but i think hyrule warriors looks repetitve as all hell and don't think that having it be 'epic' makes up for that)
 

Teepop

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Sep 21, 2014
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My god I am so angry about the DLC.

I really love the Twilight Princess costume design especially for Zelda but I got the Skyward Sword pack from my retailer (muggins didn't do their research before buying).

So I thought Ok bad luck I will just go on the eshop and buy the Twilight Princess pack. Right? WRONG! It wouldn't let me! I think it said it's not available for two months. Seriously?

Costume DLC is not merely a basic thing IMO. To anyone with a Wii U and Hyrule Warriors it is likely to be a very big thing. After all only big fans of the series would in all probability own the console and be buying that game in the first place. Johnny Casual who doesn't care about the Zelda franchise probably ain't going out buying a Wii U or Hyrule!

You are right that they could and maybe should have been on the disk.

What bugs me is that I cannot even buy my preferred costumes yet. The only way would be to buy another copy of the game.

Yeah ok I'm privileged for having the disposable income and I do sympathise with those that cannot afford DLC, but when you cannot even buy the sets I just find it ridiculous.

It is as if Nintendo and their partners do not want me to give them money. You wave cash under their nose and they are like "nope, don't want, go away".

Nintendo to a T. How many times do you find yourself saying "if Nintendo had done X they would make a fortune". Yet they never do what the customers want! You can't give them money.
 

kilenem

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I thought it was weird everyone got mad at the Benz DLC and said nothing about the Chester Cheetos DLC in Plants v.s Zombies. At least Benz produces a product that is related to the game.
 

Brain Tumor

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It sounds to me, that instead of there being instances where DLC is okay, is that NOW if anyone sells DLC then its not ok. No matter what, DLC is bad as evidenced by your saying "the Mario Kart DLC isn't AS bad..."

I understand "day one DLC." That shit is bullshit, but it is not like it only takes days to go from "finished game" to "printed on disc and sold at retail." It does take a little while to press a bunch of discs, and have them sent to distribution and then to each retailer. I would say, that there is enough time for a developer to create and/or finish extra content that can be easily put up on some servers to be downloaded. Of course that isn't an excuse if the code is already on the disc.

Im not defending Nintendo, but not all DLC is bad, and Nintendo doesn't seem (to me) to be overcharging for it either.

To Add: I just read that the day one DLC is free... what the hell is the problem there?
 

Teepop

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Brain Tumor said:
To Add: I just read that the day one DLC is free... what the hell is the problem there?
It's retailer specific in my territory and therefore unless you want to buy 3 copies of the game or whatever you can't even acquire it all.

At some point (November-ish?) you will be able to buy some of the sets.

This is how it appeared to me when I went to the eshop.

So I want the DLC. My only choice now is to buy a copy of the game from each of the various retailers. Or wait until the peak release period when I am probably playing some other game....so why would I buy it then!?

Personally I have no issue with paying. The costumes should have been shipped with the game and I wouldn't mind if they said "look you can unlock it for free by doing x, y and z in game (hard challenges) or get your wallet out and pay. Whatever, I'd pay and have no dispute because I am too lazy to do the harder challenges etc and just want the costumes.

My complaint is that I can't even buy the damn sets. Edit: its the fact that they deny me something because they have done these pathetic deals with retailers that are in no gamers interest because no one can acquire all the sets.
 

Guffe

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Jul 12, 2009
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Not sure really.
I mean if I don't get the costumes for free due to some reason I won't get them unless they are like 1? a costume, and only then the ones I think are cool!

For me, DLC is okey when it's something that doesn't really need to be in the game, cosmetics etc. but is something that people who want it can get it, for fun.

For me DLC goes too far when it's something that is required to play the game or clearly restricts playing it or is a big part of content of the game and you basically have to get it and it doesn't come with the original game. Example would be if SmashBros rooster would be 15 characters and then 15 more as paid DLC.

The price is also a big part if the DLC is "OK or not".
Hyrule Warriors, 1? per costume would not be bad, 5? that's too much, because 10 new costumes would be the same amount as the game already was.
MarioKart, well we got 16 new maps and 5 new characters for 8? for one or 12? if you get everything immediately, I think that's a pretty fair price. It's 50% more maps and 20% more characters for 20% of the price of the original game. That's OK I think...

Also for people interested in some Ninty discussion, get yourselves over to the WiiU Online Multiplayer user group :D
We need more people!
 

Brain Tumor

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Sep 4, 2014
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Teepop said:
Brain Tumor said:
To Add: I just read that the day one DLC is free... what the hell is the problem there?
It's retailer specific in my territory and therefore unless you want to buy 3 copies of the game or whatever you can't even acquire it all.

At some point (November-ish?) you will be able to buy some of the sets.

This is how it appeared to me when I went to the eshop.

So I want the DLC. My only choice now is to buy a copy of the game from each of the various retailers. Or wait until the peak release period when I am probably playing some other game....so why would I buy it then!?

Personally I have no issue with paying. The costumes should have been shipped with the game and I wouldn't mind if they said "look you can unlock it for free by doing x, y and z in game (hard challenges) or get your wallet out and pay. Whatever, I'd pay and have no dispute because I am too lazy to do the harder challenges etc and just want the costumes.

My complaint is that I can't even buy the damn sets. Edit: its the fact that they deny me something because they have done these pathetic deals with retailers that are in no gamers interest because no one can acquire all the sets.
Ah, I gotcha. This retailer specific pre-order bonus crap and separate dlc is stupid. I hate that as well. I can see the problem with that. Personally, I barely ever buy DLC for games. I barely ever finish the normal game, let alone extra game content. I also, don't see extra "skins" as worth it. But Nintendo, are actually doing more characters, content, skins, weapons etc... so I don't see Nintendo as being as bad as other company's DLC practices.
 

Something Amyss

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Brain Tumor said:
It sounds to me, that instead of there being instances where DLC is okay, is that NOW if anyone sells DLC then its not ok. No matter what, DLC is bad as evidenced by your saying "the Mario Kart DLC isn't AS bad..."

I immediately think of Andre when this topic comes up, but he's not the first nor the last person I've seen talk about Nintendo DLC as a positive.

kilenem said:
I thought it was weird everyone got mad at the Benz DLC and said nothing about the Chester Cheetos DLC in Plants v.s Zombies. At least Benz produces a product that is related to the game.
Everyone already hates the game, so mode bad practices from EA probably even tripped anyone's radar. It's not so much that it's a good thing, but that it's EA adding a tiny nugget on top of a shit sundae.

Whereas Nintendo are supposedly the shining paragon of all that's good in gaming and wouldn't do DLC and other practices they will probably do in the future and it'll be okay when they do it because they're Nintendo.

You know, like Valve.
 

Shoggoth2588

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Aug 31, 2009
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The retailer-specific DLC in Hyrule Warriors really annoys me to. It'll all be available eventually but it still seems like BS to hold costume variations ransom like that and it doesn't seem very Nintendo at all. Which leads me to believe that this is KT's doing...TK's...Nintendo would have had to have allowed them to of course but, it's still annoying that it's happening at all. I don't see myself buying any of the DLC but I do see myself getting the Club Nintendo Gannondorf costume DLC.
 

Aiddon_v1legacy

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uh, it's because they DO do DLC right. They either do free updates or the DLC is actually very substantial, almost in the same vein that you would get with computer RPGs like Ultima or Neverwinter Nights. FE: Awakening had the DLC packs that added new stuff to the campaign, gave sidequests for people who wanted new challenges, or just goofy stuff for fun. The Mario Kart 8 DLC basically adds half a game for a pretty good price while Hyrule Warriors essentially is going to do an XTreme Legends update with the new DLC adding characters, weapons, stages, and modes. So far the only misstep is the costume DLC and that's purely cosmetic. Everything else has been great as they're huge expansions that add great longevity to their titles.
 

Super Cyborg

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Jul 25, 2014
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If this is the worst case of DLC that they have done, then that's pretty good. The costume DLC practice is stupid, especially considering that most likely by the time anyone can get it, people will be done playing the game and a few new costumes will not convince people to continue playing. It hurts both the consumer and the company. I never care for costume DLC stuff, so it's not a huge deal for me, but it's still stupid.

Funny how you say the Mario Kart 8 DLC is "not as bad" when it's the definition of good DLC. It comes out over a period way after release, gives a lot of new content for a pretty good price, which keeps people wanting to play the game for a while. This will be the first DLC I will get, since it's the first game that I played that offered good DLC.

Not sure where you are finding these people, but if you look in the right places, you will find people defending one company for certain practices while condemning the rest. No matter the company uses bad practices, it's not right.
 

Flammablezeus

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Well this is the first that I've heard about all this. I guess I'm not getting Hyrule Warriors then. If this happens with Smash and Zelda, I guess I'll just have to delay purchasing them until I can get the whole game for cheaper than the release price.
 

xaszatm

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Sep 4, 2010
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Aiddon said:
uh, it's because they DO do DLC right. They either do free updates or the DLC is actually very substantial, almost in the same vein that you would get with computer RPGs like Ultima or Neverwinter Nights. FE: Awakening had the DLC packs that added new stuff to the campaign, gave sidequests for people who wanted new challenges, or just goofy stuff for fun. The Mario Kart 8 DLC basically adds half a game for a pretty good price while Hyrule Warriors essentially is going to do an XTreme Legends update with the new DLC adding characters, weapons, stages, and modes. So far the only misstep is the costume DLC and that's purely cosmetic. Everything else has been great as they're huge expansions that add great longevity to their titles.
ACTUALLY, Nintendo/Koei is doing something similar with Mario Kart 8 with Hyrule Warriors DLC. There will be 4 packs in the coming months. Each pack will have new characters, modes, scenarios, battlefields, and weapons. In addition, the entire game is giving away a free update that turns the three original villains playable. The entire thing will cost one lump sum of 14,99 Euros (American prices haven't been revealed yet). So...they're still doing DLC right.

Now, I DO get the complaints about the costume retail-specific thing. It sucks that we will have to wait a while before others get the other retail stuff. However, I should mention that in Japan, the only way to get the costumes was to buy a special edition. So, either case, it isn't a good case of DLC. However, this is a small case and the news of the actual DLC shows that Nintendo does do it right more often than not.
 

xaszatm

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Sep 4, 2010
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Flammablezeus said:
Well this is the first that I've heard about all this. I guess I'm not getting Hyrule Warriors then. If this happens with Smash and Zelda, I guess I'll just have to delay purchasing them until I can get the whole game for cheaper than the release price.
I'm confused, what do you mean by the full game? Because even in the Japanese version of Hyrule Warriors, the costumes aren't part of the base game and required a special edition to get them. The full game (which has been continually updated with new features and weapons) is still there. How is that not the full game? I can get not liking the fact that costumes are split up among retailers or required to buy an overpriced special edition but I most definitely AM confused about how the lack of costumes (that don't affect anything in the story) means it isn't the "full game".
 

DarklordKyo

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I think they're primarily talking about how they handled it with Mario Kart 8 (essentially, selling larger packs than most would sell, and making the dlc that only has a few karts released for free).
 

Super Cyborg

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xaszatm said:
Flammablezeus said:
Well this is the first that I've heard about all this. I guess I'm not getting Hyrule Warriors then. If this happens with Smash and Zelda, I guess I'll just have to delay purchasing them until I can get the whole game for cheaper than the release price.
I'm confused, what do you mean by the full game? Because even in the Japanese version of Hyrule Warriors, the costumes aren't part of the base game and required a special edition to get them. The full game (which has been continually updated with new features and weapons) is still there. How is that not the full game? I can get not liking the fact that costumes are split up among retailers or required to buy an overpriced special edition but I most definitely AM confused about how the lack of costumes (that don't affect anything in the story) means it isn't the "full game".
I assume the person doesn't like DLC in general, and prefers to be able to get the game and all the DLC for full price. While the way they are doing DLC is good even for those who buy the game day one, there are people who will wait to be able to get everything much cheaper, which is more power to them. I assume by full game the poster means everything the game has to offer, which DLC can be considered to be part of the whole game. If it was said to not be "complete", that would be another argument that you would have a point.

Main problem is that Nintendo games take a long time to go down in price, and when it does it usually seems to be small, at least in my experience. Then again, I've noticed Amazon to have nice price drops in a decent amount of time.
 

Dragonbums

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May 9, 2013
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The preorder locations for the costumes is pretty fucking annoying. Since the one I want you have to go to Best Buy...which I don't have a car to go to and the closest game store is Gamestop. But...eh? That's the worst I've seen from Nintendo.

Honestly it should be considered a industry standard, but the fact that people are praising it just shows how much DLC practices have gone in the shitter.
 

Roxas1359

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Aug 8, 2009
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Dragonbums said:
The preorder locations for the costumes is pretty fucking annoying. Since the one I want you have to go to Best Buy...which I don't have a car to go to and the closest game store is Gamestop. But...eh? That's the worst I've seen from Nintendo.

Honestly it should be considered a industry standard, but the fact that people are praising it just shows how much DLC practices have gone in the shitter.
Honestly this isn't even the worst instance of DLC that Nintendo has done. Everyone seems to have forgotten the New Super Mario Bros 2 DLC that was on the 3DS...now that was something that people should've been upset over because that was (technically still is) pretty damn bad. Well, that and the fact that Nintendo keeps doing exclusive stuff for GameStop only. >.>
 

Ghostface2206

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Apr 6, 2013
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So why does Hyrule Warriors have a ($20!!) season pass...

http://www.gamespot.com/articles/hyrule-warriors-gets-4-dlc-packs-bonus-dark-link-c/1100-6422459/

captcha: hissy fit....is this thing mocking me?

edit: and there! see the comments, some of them are nintendo fans (who used to say that nintendo was great for not doing dlc and putting the whole game on the disk, but now they're congratulating them for 'getting with modern trends'.)

they're putting game modes into planned dlc packs. they're not doing dlc any differently to anyone else here

double edit: and another thing that annoys me, Iwata said not too long ago that nintendo wouldnt do dlc because it's not worth it, to the sound of cheering fanboys, now they're doing it and no one;s calling them out for going back on their word

also the mario kart 8 dlc I didnt put my wording right there but i actually do like that, it's HW i'm more annoyed about and the mentality of fanboys
 

DrOswald

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I am not against DLC as long as it is good. I don't have a great understanding of the Hyrule Warriors DLC yet (I am going to have to play the base game before I can really understand what they are selling) but the Mario Kart DLC is exactly how DLC should be done. Basically half again the content for 1/5th standard price. That is an excellent deal. More game for a game you love at an excellent price. That is the idea that I have always loved about expansion packs and DLC. It is when developers get away from that idea that DLC fails.

The pre order exclusive costumes are slightly annoying but it is an extremely minor problem and I believe it is a fair trade. I have never held cosmetic preorder dlc against any developer because there is a disparity in value in pre ordering a game these days. A preorder helps a developer greatly but gives the player nothing of value while increasing the risk of purchasing a game. Minor pre order incentives (like cosmetics) give customers a reason to pre order the game. It is acknowledging that we are taking a risk with a pre order and rewarding us for our loyalty and trust in the game company. Besides, Nintendo made good and sure that the reviews of the game would come out well ahead of the game so everyone could have a chance to read reviews to mitigate much of the risk of pre ordering.

Last of all, there is nothing wrong with new game modes in DLC packs. I think one of the dumbest ideas to enter the heads of gamers these days is that DLC for video games shouldn't include game modes and the like. It's moronic. Why should our game DLC not include more game?

In conclusion, is Nintendo doing DLC different? Well, that depends on who you are comparing them to. Nintendo is doing it the same as other companies who are not gutting the core game, providing excellent value to the dollar, and making DLC something more substantial that a new pair of pants for Link. They are not doing it the same as companies who charge $10 for horse armor.

Is it ok when Nintendo does it? As long as they do it like this my answer will be yes.