GFWL, DRM, and Double Profiles

[Bat Vader]

About an hour ago I bought Bulletstorm during Steam's Summer Sale. It downloaded and installed and now I am trying to play it. I didn't know that it used Games For Windows Live and when I found out it did I thought I would just use an offline profile just to play the single player except that isn't the case.

Apparently I need to have a LIVE Enabled profile because the game has multiplayer. Now, I have to jump through hoops and create a Live Enabled Profile just to play the single player portion of a game.

I should not have to use double profiles to play a game. The game is on Steam which means I should not to use GFWL, I should not have to sign into two accounts, I should not have to create an online enabled profile to play the single player portion of a game. This is a clear example of terrible, frustrating, and stupid DRM. In my opinion a developer has failed at their job if the DRM they use complicates things for the customer.

More developers and publishers need to listen to VD Projekt Red and their anti-DRM policy.

Have any other of my fellow Escapist users have to deal with frustrating DRM like this?

 

[WoW Killer]

The only one I've had like that was AC3, which went through both Steam and Uplay. I think it's stupid, yes. I didn't actually have any problems with it though. And I think if you were to make it a rule that you only ever sign into one profile, it'd cause its own issues. Each of those different providers has their own little rules, their own forms of DRM, some worse than others of course. If it were the case that you only ever needed to sign into one profile, then that would necessitate a certain level of trust between the different companies. Microsoft would be basically saying to Valve: "you can only have these games on Steam if you have all the same DRM that we would". And then you basically get the worst of all worlds no matter which provider you go for.

Not that that excuses any of it, because a lot of this DRM has no reason to exist in the first place.

 

[mad825]

I should not have to use double profiles to play a game. The game is on Steam which means I should not to use GFWL, I should not have to sign into two accounts, I should not have to create an online enabled profile to play the single player portion of a game. This is a clear example of terrible, frustrating, and stupid DRM. In my opinion a developer has failed at their job if the DRM they use complicates things for the customer.

The Steam store is not Steamworks. Steamworks is the in-game DRM and the steam store is just a retailer.
.
Quite frankly, I'm surprised it never reached the EA download manager(Origin) at that time. You should always do the research before buying to prevent this and a time where I brought GTA IV, you had to have the Disk 1 in drive, signed into Rockstar club with GFWL always-online.

 

[Bat Vader]

I should not have to use double profiles to play a game. The game is on Steam which means I should not to use GFWL, I should not have to sign into two accounts, I should not have to create an online enabled profile to play the single player portion of a game. This is a clear example of terrible, frustrating, and stupid DRM. In my opinion a developer has failed at their job if the DRM they use complicates things for the customer.

The Steam store is not Steamworks. Steamworks is the in-game DRM and the steam store is just a retailer.
.
Quite frankly, I'm surprised it never reached the EA download manager(Origin) at that time. You should always do the research before buying to prevent this and a time where I brought GTA IV, you had to have the Disk 1 in drive, signed into Rockstar club with GFWL always-online.

I understand. I just think that out of all the DRM out there that Steamworks is least irritating. I have never had a problem with Steamworks before. Usually I do try and look up info on a game before I buy it but this was mainly an impulse buy that I wasn't really thinking of at the time.

The only one I've had like that was AC3, which went through both Steam and Uplay. I think it's stupid, yes. I didn't actually have any problems with it though. And I think if you were to make it a rule that you only ever sign into one profile, it'd cause its own issues. Each of those different providers has their own little rules, their own forms of DRM, some worse than others of course. If it were the case that you only ever needed to sign into one profile, then that would necessitate a certain level of trust between the different companies. Microsoft would be basically saying to Valve: "you can only have these games on Steam if you have all the same DRM that we would". And then you basically get the worst of all worlds no matter which provider you go for.

Not that that excuses any of it, because a lot of this DRM has no reason to exist in the first place.

I meant more that if a game gets placed on Steam that the developer has to patch out the DRM and instead use the Steamworks DRM. That way publishers and developers would feel like their game is protected and customers like me wouldn't have to deal with the hassle of having to use double profiles. It would be a win-win situation. While I hate DRM and love CD Projekt Red's Anti-DRM stance I can tolerate Steamworks because it isn't terrible and doesn't make me jump through hoops.

 

[UnnDunn]

The PC market is just a complete mess in this regard. GTA IV is one of the worse offenders, requiring you to have three (!) accounts--Steam, Rockstar Social Club and GFWL--to play the game. And there's no real solution, since the publishers will reject any attempt to standardize things, fearing loss of revenue.

 

[Darth Sea Bass]

I was tempted to get either dark souls ptd or arkham city then i realised they both have gfwl and had a change of heart i'm not installing gfwl if i can help it not even for the lure of cheap games!

 

[AlbertoDeSanta]

Yes. Yes I have. I had to set up a GFWL account for Fallout 3, just so I could access the DLC which I bought with the game (GOTYE) on Steam. NEedless to say, I was not too happy about that.

 

[clippen05]

About an hour ago I bought Bulletstorm during Steam's Summer Sale. It downloaded and installed and now I am trying to play it. I didn't know that it used Games For Windows Live and when I found out it did I thought I would just use an offline profile just to play the single player except that isn't the case.

Apparently I need to have a LIVE Enabled profile because the game has multiplayer. Now, I have to jump through hoops and create a Live Enabled Profile just to play the single player portion of a game.

I should not have to use double profiles to play a game. The game is on Steam which means I should not to use GFWL, I should not have to sign into two accounts, I should not have to create an online enabled profile to play the single player portion of a game. This is a clear example of terrible, frustrating, and stupid DRM. In my opinion a developer has failed at their job if the DRM they use complicates things for the customer.

More developers and publishers need to listen to VD Projekt Red and their anti-DRM policy.

Have any other of my fellow Escapist users have to deal with frustrating DRM like this?

Just because a game is on Steam doesn't mean its free of DRM. Tons of game have other DRM related to their publisher. Far Cry 3 makes you install UPlay even if you bought the game on Steam, that's my only real experience with other DRM, but it wasn't necessarily bad, just a minor inconvenience.

 

[Bat Vader]

Look closer next time. Steam will have in one of 2 places the extra DRM listed. Either on the right of the screen in the box below the metascore at the bottom of it it a line called "3rd Party DRM". Sometimes it is listed there. Other times below the system requirements it is listed as "Other Requirements". Sometimes even it has it listed in both areas. Never have I seen it not listed in either spot if the game has DRM. It is squarely your fault for not doing the research especially when Steam puts it on the game's page for you. (albeit trying to hide it but still it is visible)
It sucks but I have little sympathy for you.

And yes Games For Windows Live sucks and I'll never allow it on my computer.

To clarify things I didn't ask for sympathy nor do I want it. I was just venting my frustrations about an annoying situation. I never said it wasn't my fault.

About an hour ago I bought Bulletstorm during Steam's Summer Sale. It downloaded and installed and now I am trying to play it. I didn't know that it used Games For Windows Live and when I found out it did I thought I would just use an offline profile just to play the single player except that isn't the case.

Apparently I need to have a LIVE Enabled profile because the game has multiplayer. Now, I have to jump through hoops and create a Live Enabled Profile just to play the single player portion of a game.

I should not have to use double profiles to play a game. The game is on Steam which means I should not to use GFWL, I should not have to sign into two accounts, I should not have to create an online enabled profile to play the single player portion of a game. This is a clear example of terrible, frustrating, and stupid DRM. In my opinion a developer has failed at their job if the DRM they use complicates things for the customer.

More developers and publishers need to listen to VD Projekt Red and their anti-DRM policy.

Have any other of my fellow Escapist users have to deal with frustrating DRM like this?

Just because a game is on Steam doesn't mean its free of DRM. Tons of game have other DRM related to their publisher. Far Cry 3 makes you install UPlay even if you bought the game on Steam, that's my only real experience with other DRM, but it wasn't necessarily bad, just a minor inconvenience.

It's a minor inconvenience but I think it is something that should not exist. If I buy it through Ubisoft's store than I should be forced to use Uplay and sign into it. If I buy it through Steam I feel that I should not have to also into Uplay and that the game should use Steamworks instead. I get why Ubisoft and other publishers and developers do stuff like that but at the same time it annoys the heck out of me. I know it isn't that big of a deal but I just hate having to do something that isn't needed.

 

[Shadow-Phoenix]

A friend once gifted me Anno 2070 from Steam and it looked like an amazing game.

That was until I launched it from Steam and then suddenly Ubisoft's Uplay is suddenly needed to launch and update the game which pissed me off to no end.

See what's the point of buying a Ubisoft game from Steam when it requires a second launcher like Uplay in order too play because it feels so daft and retarded.

 

[Alleged_Alec]

A friend once gifted me Anno 2070 from Steam and it looked like an amazing game.

That was until I launched it from Steam and then suddenly Ubisoft's Uplay is suddenly needed to launch and update the game which pissed me off to no end.

See what's the point of buying a Ubisoft game from Steam when it requires a second launcher like Uplay in order too play because it feels so daft and retarded.

Even better: a friend of mine bought it as well, and apparently in the version sold here in the Netherlands, the Uplay software installed with the game has a faulty IP listed for the connection server. Not only does it not tell what happens when it fails to launch, but then you have to actually slough through config files TO GET THE DRM TO FUNCTION, so you can play your game. It's this horrible recursive mess which is a good enough reason that people who make these DRMs will be the first against the wall when the revolution finally comes.

 

[Strazdas]

a time where I brought GTA IV, you had to have the Disk 1 in drive, signed into Rockstar club with GFWL always-online.

you know whats even more "fun". GFWL "updating", crashing, reinstalling and all saves lost.
yeah, that happened.
since it apperently saved them in GFWL and when it decided to "repair-reinstall" it just deleted them all because who needs savegames anyway right?

 

[Bat Vader]

A friend once gifted me Anno 2070 from Steam and it looked like an amazing game.

That was until I launched it from Steam and then suddenly Ubisoft's Uplay is suddenly needed to launch and update the game which pissed me off to no end.

See what's the point of buying a Ubisoft game from Steam when it requires a second launcher like Uplay in order too play because it feels so daft and retarded.

Plus, if someone loses or forgets their username or password they either have to hope that they can recover it, change it, or hope that Technical Service helps them and if not they can kiss their game(s) goodbye. If Microsoft and Ubisoft are going to continue to force people to use two different profiles for a game being sold through Steam. They should at least make it so that when you sign into Steam it makes it so are you automatically signed into a Steam guest account on GFWL and Uplay when you play that game through Steam.

 

[Shadow-Phoenix]

A friend once gifted me Anno 2070 from Steam and it looked like an amazing game.

That was until I launched it from Steam and then suddenly Ubisoft's Uplay is suddenly needed to launch and update the game which pissed me off to no end.

See what's the point of buying a Ubisoft game from Steam when it requires a second launcher like Uplay in order too play because it feels so daft and retarded.

Plus, if someone loses or forgets their username or password they either have to hope that they can recover it, change it, or hope that Technical Service helps them and if not they can kiss their game(s) goodbye. If Microsoft and Ubisoft are going to continue to force people to use two different profiles for a game being sold through Steam. They should at least make it so that when you sign into Steam it makes it so are you automatically signed into a Steam guest account on GFWL and Uplay when you play that game through Steam.

See this is it for us if Ubi keeps doing this and the sad part is when I received my GTX 660ti PE card I got given Assassins Creed 3 for free with it (Along with £100 worth of ingame cash for PS2,Hawken and WOT) I still haven't installed it yet because I just don't want to have to launch and deal with Uplay because most of my PC games are already on steam and I'd rather not have both running at the same time so I can play only 2 games in whole I have to use on Uplay =/.

A friend once gifted me Anno 2070 from Steam and it looked like an amazing game.




That was until I launched it from Steam and then suddenly Ubisoft's Uplay is suddenly needed to launch and update the game which pissed me off to no end.

See what's the point of buying a Ubisoft game from Steam when it requires a second launcher like Uplay in order too play because it feels so daft and retarded.

Even better: a friend of mine bought it as well, and apparently in the version sold here in the Netherlands, the Uplay software installed with the game has a faulty IP listed for the connection server. Not only does it not tell what happens when it fails to launch, but then you have to actually slough through config files TO GET THE DRM TO FUNCTION, so you can play your game. It's this horrible recursive mess which is a good enough reason that people who make these DRMs will be the first against the wall when the revolution finally comes.

That's just fucking nightmarish for your friend having to go through all that just to get the game to work, no one should have to wade through all that just to get one game working that they paid for.

I really wish ubi would just give it up and let their games launch from Steam but keep Uplay on their website for the points scheme because that seems to work well with using those points for little treats for your games.

 

[James Crook]

I, personally, don't have a problem with publisher services such as Uplay or Rockstar's Social Club. At least the publisher, from which we bought the game, is responsible for the service. I just wish Uplay just had an overlay and no launcher, but oh well, as long as it works.
That's not the case with Games for Windows Live. That fucking thing is an abomination. A monstrosity. NO publisher has ANY reason to force that shit down the throat of ANY gamer they'd wish to sell the game to. This thing hasn't been updated in years, will make you pay to change gamertag, won't allow you to transfer your profile to another Microsoft account unless you log on to an Xbox (now that these two services are tied together)... Jesus.

 

[erbkaiser]

Oh just wait until you stop playing for a while, then install some updates like a new video card driver, and want to continue playing. All of a sudden GFWL decides you are on a new PC, and your profiles won't load.

GFWL is the cancer of achievement systems.

 

[Evil Smurf]

I, personally, don't have a problem with publisher services such as Uplay or Rockstar's Social Club. At least the publisher, from which we bought the game, is responsible for the service. I just wish Uplay just had an overlay and no launcher, but oh well, as long as it works.
That's not the case with Games for Windows Live. That fucking thing is an abomination. A monstrosity. NO publisher has ANY reason to force that shit down the throat of ANY gamer they'd wish to sell the game to. This thing hasn't been updated in years, will make you pay to change gamertag, won't allow you to transfer your profile to another Microsoft account unless you log on to an Xbox (now that these two services are tied together)... Jesus.

Oh just wait until you stop playing for a while, then install some updates like a new video card driver, and want to continue playing. All of a sudden GFWL decides you are on a new PC, and your profiles won't load.

GFWL is the cancer of achievement systems.

it ruined the Batman games for me, I've not played more then 5 minutes thanks to shitty DRM, on top of that Microsoft won't give me a discount, I may contact the ombudsman.

 

[James Crook]

GFWL is the cancer of achievement systems.

it ruined the Batman games for me, I've not played more then 5 minutes thanks to shitty DRM, on top of that Microsoft won't give me a discount, I may contact the ombudsman.[/quote]

It is the worst piece of DRM software that's ever happened. Even worse than SecuROM. Probably even worse than the first outing of Uplay (the always-on one, the one from Assassin's Creed II).
I was able to play the games I own that have GFWL all the way through, though, and I loved those games. But I felt they were being held back by that piece of shit. Batman was unplayable with DX11, apparently because of GFWL. And don't get me started on GTA IV's online.

 

[Evil Smurf]

The escapist ate your post man, I could not save it, anyway you were saying GFWL is cancer.

it would be worth cracking it, I do own the games after all.

 

[James Crook]

it would be worth cracking it, I do own the games after all.

I just checked. Deadlight, an MS Studios game, uses Steamworks instead of GFWL. Could it be MS itself lost faith in their own service?
The last non-MS game to come out that uses GFWL is Namco's Ace Combat:Assault Horizon... Well, the game sucked anyway. But now I know Namco still exists.