Ghost in the Shell 2.0

[Extragorey]

So I watched "Ghost in the Shell 2.0", the first anime movie I've seen (not counting Pokemon movies). I thought it was pretty good, and I decided to write down a few of my thoughts on it:

- The animation was primarily the original 1995 animation (12 frames per second limited animation) interspersed with occasional 29-FPS 3D CGI scenes which looked largely out of place.
- Where it appeared, the CGI was quite well-rendered, but the quality of graphics show that there wasn't a very big budget for such CGI. Instead it seemed to be more like the complexity of CGI you'd find in a movie made in the year 2000.
- The rest of the animation seemed to be 'on twos', so only 12 FPS. A bit too 'jumpy' for my movie preferences. And the technique of limited animation was probably a bit too obvious at times, with some on-screen characters remaining completely static while one talked.
- On that topic, I noticed that no one blinks. At all. Which was really disconcerting when someone's talking for a decent period of time.
- The music was... Interesting, but at least it suited the tone of the film.
- Unnecessarily liberal use of nudity; a female "cyborg" can apparently only use thermo-optic camo when she's wearing nothing but thigh-high stockings and a solid metal visor that blocks her vision (and how does that work?)...
- Dialogue was interesting and often profound, sometimes overly so - this becomes apparent when even the 'brawns over brain' heavy cyborg guy spouts philosophical nonsense in the middle of a mission. This is even more prevalent in the sequel, Ghost in the Shell 2: Innocence (2004).
- I spent most of the movie trying to figure out what a "ghost" actually was; my initial assertion was that it was akin to a human soul or mind, but then random statements like "Did you hear a whisper in your ghost again?" sort of throw that theory out the window.
- The cyberpunk universe that serves as the setting feels like it could have been fleshed out more, although there were some nice large-scale camera angles that encompassed a large part of the city - something which animation as a medium intrinsically excels at due to the impracticality of having similar scenes in a live-action film.
- The voice acting was better than I've been led to expect from dubbed anime. Sure, most of the time it sounded like the voice actors were 'putting on' the voice, but at least there was appropriate use of vocal emphasis and emotion. The sequel had a completely different English voice cast, but they seemed to do a better job of it while keeping the 'feel' of the original characters' voices.

All in all, a bizarre yet thought-provoking piece of entertainment (even if most of those provoked thoughts are rendered irrelevant by modern philosophy). I mean, wondering whether or not we truly exist or if we're in the Matrix (or similar) is an old line of thinking nowadays and I personally don't really care anymore; whatever it is I'm experiencing now is good enough for me.
And yes, I'm aware the Matrix was influenced/inspired by this very movie (well, the original 1995 version) among others.

So what does everyone else think about that movie? I'm into science-fiction and cyberpunk themes, but anime has never really interested me before. I'm willing to give it another shot though.

 

[Palademon]

I bought this movie yesterday...so I don't know yet.
But I hope I like it because that just leads to more of it that I can watch.

To me, a second year Philosophy student, the idea of being in a dream state, being unable to tell what is reality, is a common and big issue.

 

[templatetom]

the original ghost in the shell was enjoyable for me. The CGi was just so out of place. Putting all that aside it is a really good movie and it got me partially back to animated movies.

 

[Hoplon]

*the big snip*

You miss the repeated use of a basset hound in random places (the director really loves that dog apparently)

The ghost is basically the personality/soul in an artificial brain hence "ghost"

 

[Extragorey]

*the big snip*

You miss the repeated use of a basset hound in random places (the director really loves that dog apparently)

The ghost is basically the personality/soul in an artificial brain hence "ghost"

Yeah, I thought as much. Still seems weird to say something like "Did you hear a whisper in your ghost again?" though. As I understand it, the Major still had a human brain (though somewhat augmented) so it's essentially the same as asking if she's thinking anything.
And the hound... Yeah. I also fully expected that rookie's family to be killed too, just because of how much he went on about them.

To me, a second year Philosophy student, the idea of being in a dream state, being unable to tell what is reality, is a common and big issue.

Well, I consider philosophy as interesting despite being mostly either common sense or BS. Like many subjects, you can argue anything and get away with it.

 

[Hoplon]

yeah, the artificial brain is a back up to the biological brain.

 

[Extragorey]

yeah, the artificial brain is a back up to the biological brain.

Fair enough. Stills seems a weird statement to make if they use their biological brain primarily.

Anyone else got anything to say about Ghost in the Shell? (Any of the movies or anime series, really)

 

[Soviet Heavy]

Are you talking about the remake of the original film? Or it's actual sequel? Because GITS 2 Innocence blended the CGI and 2D a lot better than the original.

 

[Extragorey]

Are you talking about the remake of the original film? Or it's actual sequel? Because GITS 2 Innocence blended the CGI and 2D a lot better than the original.

The remake of the original, though I watched a few portions of the movie side-by-side with the original 1995 version to see which one I wanted to watch.
I have also watched the sequel, GITS 2 Innocence, since then.

 

[Avayu]

I haven't watched Ghost in the Shell 2.0, but as far as I know there are no real differences other than changed(improved?) animations, so I guess what I have to say about the original movie is just as valid. It's my favourite anime movie. Actually, GitS (all of it) is the only anime I really like. A great blend of action and philosophy, probably my favourite cyberpunk story. Innocence was a little bit too much for me, though.

Personally, I prefer the series Stand Alone Complex, though. It's less philosophical and, simply put, more fun to watch. SAC is more of a (post-)cyberpunk political thriller, it gives you a far better view of its universe and has some very interesting themes. Also, at least in my opinion, it has less fanservice.

 

[Extragorey]

Personally, I prefer the series Stand Alone Complex, though. It's less philosophical and, simply put, more fun to watch. SAC is more of a (post-)cyberpunk political thriller, it gives you a far better view of its universe and has some very interesting themes. Also, at least in my opinion, it has less fanservice.

Yeah, I'm finding that too. I'm just over halfway through the first season and I've barely encountered any random bouts of philosophy - which is nice, because most of it seemed out of place in the films.
And at least the main character has gone from wearing nothing but stockings to wearing everything but stockings. Or pants. Better than naked, anyway.

 

[Avayu]

Personally, I prefer the series Stand Alone Complex, though. It's less philosophical and, simply put, more fun to watch. SAC is more of a (post-)cyberpunk political thriller, it gives you a far better view of its universe and has some very interesting themes. Also, at least in my opinion, it has less fanservice.

Yeah, I'm finding that too. I'm just over halfway through the first season and I've barely encountered any random bouts of philosophy - which is nice, because most of it seemed out of place in the films.
And at least the main character has gone from wearing nothing but stockings to wearing everything but stockings. Or pants. Better than naked, anyway.

It gets better in 2nd GIG. The no-pants-problem, I mean. Everything else is a matter of opinion.

The great thing about SAC, I think, is that the philosophical themes are still there, but less in-your-face than in the movies and more as just that: underlying themes that add to the atmosphere of the world, but don't dominate it.

 

[Daystar Clarion]

I liked the two movies, but I prefer Stand Alone Complex, 1st and 2nd GIG.

It just expands on the characters more, the world feels bigger and it can spread the philosohical themes out a bit more so I don't feel overwhelmed.

 

[Torrasque]

Oh man, this thread is my jam. I can talk about GitS for days, I love it so much. Its actually kind of funny, my friend just finished watching 2nd gig (season 2) and had a bunch of questions for me last night; questions about clarifying plot elements and philosophy. I don't mind explaining GitS, it is very hard to get the first go, and I have had years of experience in watching and re-watching all of GitS. So I shall address your concerns to the best of my ability

The original Ghost in the Shell movie (what you are talking about) is really really old. Animation-wise, it was really fast and fluid for it's time, and is still a beautiful anime, but some people look at it and think "well that looks old..." even though it is not that old as far as anime is concerned. It WAS made in the 90s, and like all anime, it cuts corners where it can. The budgets for anime will never be that high. Furthermore, Ghost in the Shell has (and always will be) more about the Philosophy and drama than the action and making it look pretty. If/when you watch Innocence, most of the beauty is the scenery, there are few action scenes (which are great btw) but GitS does it's talking though it's message, not with it's fancy graphics.
People in GitS DO blink, they just don't do it that often because it's an anime, people in anime don't spend much time blinking to begin with. They probably blink less because most of them are cyborgs /shrug
GitS music is so goooood zomg. The budget for the seasons and Innocence is much better than it was for the original movie, so the music is much better. The intro songs, the outro songs, the ambient songs, all the music, is so fucking good. My favorite tune is the outro for Tachikomatic days. I love those little guys ^_^
Beh. GitS is tame as far as nudity is concerned. Yes, the Major is a walking fan-service at times, but she's a full prosthetic, she doesn't give a damn, lol. Also consider that at that time, the technology wasn't good enough to allow camo to cover their clothes and such, or that the Major just doesn't want to be restricted when cloaked. The solid metal visor is optics of some kind that work because the anime says they do, I wouldn't worry too much about it.
That "philosophical nonsense" is the main attraction of GitS, lol. The more you watch GitS, the more you appreciate this. Also, Batou may seem like a goon, but he really isn't. All the members of section 9 are incredibly smart and the best at what they do. What would you rather they talk about? Tits and asses?
Ah yes the Ghost, the main theme of all GitS. This is something you will understand the more you watch GitS, but I'll just explain it now: you were right when you thought that a Ghost is the soul, but not in the way you thought. GitS exists in a universe where people can have full-body prosthetics, and for people who have lived most of their lives in prosthetics, the concept of humanity gets to be a little "interesting", and by interesting, I mean it makes you question your own existence
Whenever the Major says "my ghost is whispering to me", she means she has a gut feeling. Her soul is not actually talking to her, that is just the imagery associated with someone who hasn't had a gut for most of their lives. Comprende?
The cyberpunk world IS fleshed out in the series (cuz they actually have the time to do so) and it is amazing. Very few movies take the time to flesh out the world that the characters exist in (unless the world itself is an important plot device).
GitS has always had amazing voice actors for the sub as well as the dub. The english voice actors are in so many big anime, it is ridiculous.

You think so eh? I find that modern philosophy falls short in the category of what it means to be human, exist, and the difference between man and machine. Many of philosophers that are key in these topics have little snippets of dialogue in the anime (and manga).

Overall, GitS is my favorite anime of all time. I include all the seasons and movies in this, but Innocence and 2nd gig really stand out. You should start watching the series now, it builds on what the movie started.

Like I said, I can talk about GitS for days

 

*snippity*

 

[Extragorey]

Wow, Torrasque, you really went at it there. Thanks for your comments, and I think I understand what the whole Ghost thing is referring to now.

That "philosophical nonsense" is the main attraction of GitS, lol. The more you watch GitS, the more you appreciate this. Also, Batou may seem like a goon, but he really isn't. All the members of section 9 are incredibly smart and the best at what they do. What would you rather they talk about? Tits and asses?

Obviously you missed the part where I complained about the nudity already there; far from implying there should be more.
And I like philosophy, I really do. I think it makes for interesting and thought-provoking discussions, even if they ultimately don't lead anywhere.
My point was that it often seemed out of place to have these deep philosophical musings delivered in such a gruff way from unlikely characters at awkward moments in the film.

Still, I can appreciate what the film is trying to do; they're essentially presenting a context in which it is appropriate for characters to have discussions regarding self-existence and other such debates which - as a measure of their significance - still very much persist through modern philosophy.

 

[Torrasque]

Wow, Torrasque, you really went at it there. Thanks for your comments, and I think I understand what the whole Ghost thing is referring to now.

That "philosophical nonsense" is the main attraction of GitS, lol. The more you watch GitS, the more you appreciate this. Also, Batou may seem like a goon, but he really isn't. All the members of section 9 are incredibly smart and the best at what they do. What would you rather they talk about? Tits and asses?

Obviously you missed the part where I complained about the nudity already there; far from implying there should be more.
And I like philosophy, I really do. I think it makes for interesting and thought-provoking discussions, even if they ultimately don't lead anywhere.
My point was that it often seemed out of place to have these deep philosophical musings delivered in such a gruff way from unlikely characters at awkward moments in the film.

Still, I can appreciate what the film is trying to do; they're essentially presenting a context in which it is appropriate for characters to have discussions regarding self-existence and other such debates which - as a measure of their significance - still very much persist through modern philosophy.

I thought I addressed your complaint about the nudity, but I guess I can explain it again.
You have to keep in mind that this Ghost in the Shell movie was made in 1995, and that nudity is a good way to get the attention of the audience. I mean, the internet is still in it's infant stages, and seeing nudity is still a big deal in anime. I'd try to justify why the included nudity in an anime, but I really don't know. All I know, is that the Major would never give a damn about showing her entire body to anyone (because she is a full prosthetic) and that the nudity in GitS has never been something I cared about. Even GitS hentai is a turn-off for me because it is the Major. She is so detached from her body that the nudity becomes more of a "oh, she changed her shirt" for me. I can understand that you don't like the nudity in GitS, but if you understand the Major the way I do, then you realize that the nudity is really not that big of a deal.

Ahhh, that is your first mistake. You think that just because Batou looks like a brawn > brains kind of guy, that he must be a brawns > brains kind of guy. He really isn't. Of course, since you just have the movie to go on, it makes sense to make that kind of assumption. But if you watch the series and Innocence, then you see that Batou is a very intelligent person that has incredible experience in both military combat as well as philosophy. There are no stupid people in Section 9 (something that I cannot stress enough), so your assumption that Batou should not be spouting philosophy, is ill-advised.
The only point that you were correct on, was that Batou is gruff. In most of his interactions, Batou likes to take the deliberate "no bullshit" way. In combat, in philosophy, in dealings with people, Batou likes to take the quickest no-nonsense route. This is not because he is lazy or because he wants to finish the job quickly, but because he does not like dealing with the bullshit that most people put on. For example, if a normal girl said "nothing is wrong", Batou would say "Ok, nothing is wrong. So when I get a call that a girl gave a magnum a blowjob, I'll be sure to visit your house first because 'nothing is wrong' and you would totally not blow your brains out".
Hope that makes sense.

 

[Tanis]

It's a classic anime film, right up there with Akira.

If you want something that's a bit...easier...to follow try the anime series:
Ghost In The Shell: Stand Alone Complex