Girls in Gaming

[Insideout Ink Demon]

-snip-
P.S. What's a White Knight?

-and another snip-

EDIT: I still can't understand why many guys admit they choose to play as female characters in games. Curiosity, sheer boredom, or...?

I feel so bad about snipping, you wrote so much in the way of interesting observations.

A White Knight is essentially a guy who wants to protect and some times rushes to protect, females like the delicate little flowers they are [/sarcasm]
Personally I think the fact they think a female cant stand up for herself just because of her gender is equal to thinking she should stay in the kitchen because of her gender.

Originally i first played a female in an RPG (KoTOR I think) because I thought to myself, do i want to stare at a man or a woman for the next 30+ hours.
I'm not 100% sure thats the only reason now. An RPG means we get to play a role, we get to detach from ourselves and become part of a world of fantasy/sci-fi/magic, what can make you more detached than seeing a world through the eyes of a different gender?

 

[Totenkopf]

Do you also get bothered and quit games when someone gets upset they were called a fag or a ******? Or are women the only group of people you care about whether or not they enjoy their videogames?

I get bothered everytime when someone flames around like a flame thrower, even if I'm not the target, because everyone should enjoy their online experience. But as I said before, I've never witnessed someone bothering women online, as the only woman I've met so far ingame was better than I was,accepted and appreciated by the others.

I just want to play in an enjoyable atmosphere with my fellow gamers, no matter if they are male or female. But it just seems like it was something very bad (apparently "rapist" kind of bad) to say you're sorry that someone get his games ruined over and over again. And it's bad to feel sorry for them because they're female, and feeling sorry for a woman seems to state that you think man are superior. It just blows my mind.

Well for one thing the entire world is like this. The anonymity online just allow people to express what they think in an over the top exaggerated fashion. Instead of feeling bad and petitioning that women get treated better in video games why not try and actually help people achieve equality in the real world?

Wow. Unless I liberate mankind and turn the whole world into a wonderland of freedom, love and justice, I'm not allowed to talk about online/gaming issues like this/feel sorry for someone? That's quite odd if I'm allowed to say that. I know you've got a proper point there, but there's not really something I can seriously accomplish. There is just unfairness in this world you can't solve with talking or something like that, you've got to force it to justice (blood & iron). People won't give me power to force injustice away, so what is to do? A goal that is possible to obtain would be nice. But maybe we're just missing each other here, so what do you demand me to do?

 

[Entropyutd]

Somewhere out there, somebody's picturing Victa here on a pole.

I could not help but burst out laughing when I read that along with the picture.

Very nice work overall, a few other good examples could be the female side-kicks in Mass Effect, as well as possibly Cortana from Halo (although she borders on it occasionally).

It's the worst on MMORPGs
I can't move from one side of a room or area to the other side in the MMO Phantasy Star Universe without some asshole messaging me:

Want to send me a pic?

Never played an MMORPG but what's funny is when I have heard of guys using female characters and having this happen to them.

An old MMORPG saying for you.
GIRL - Guy In Real Life
The reason, well because pervs hit on them and then give them free stuff.

 

[Ray_J4626]

I'm a female gamer and like Embz I like to customise my own characters, it makes a game more interesting in most cases as I'm sure you all agree. Having the option to be a female character is always nice but not just for women I guess because I bet there are many males out there that like to choose the female characters lol (like my fiancé for instance).
I also agree on the point that some games just have a male feel to them, I honestly don't mind if the games main character is set as male or female but when presented with a choice I 99% of the time pick the female character, always have, even since I was a little 3 year old girl playing Saga mega drive with my father haha!

 

[DuX1112]

-snip-
P.S. What's a White Knight?

-and another snip-

EDIT: I still can't understand why many guys admit they choose to play as female characters in games. Curiosity, sheer boredom, or...?

I feel so bad about snipping, you wrote so much in the way of interesting observations.

A White Knight is essentially a guy who wants to protect and some times rushes to protect, females like the delicate little flowers they are [/sarcasm]
Personally I think the fact they think a female cant stand up for herself just because of her gender is equal to thinking she should stay in the kitchen because of her gender.

Originally i first played a female in an RPG (KoTOR I think) because I thought to myself, do i want to stare at a man or a woman for the next 30+ hours.
I'm not 100% sure thats the only reason now. An RPG means we get to play a role, we get to detach from ourselves and become part of a world of fantasy/sci-fi/magic, what can make you more detached than seeing a world through the eyes of a different gender?

Don't worry about the snipping. Anyways, thanks for caring about it.

Thanks for the White Knight explanation too. That being said, just 5 minutes ago a friend of mine told me I didn't care about her (problems). Well I don't, and I've told her before when she'd accuse me of such a 'sin', because her problems are not mine, dammit. Pretty natural to me. So I guess I'm not a White Knight. I'd rather not be, since I've had my fair share of sticking my neck out for girls, anyways.

About playing as a different gender. Well, I don't know, I sure don't mind playing Tomb Raider, or The Longest Journey too (I think it the second one?). Or Siberia, for that matter. I almost fell in love with the female character in TLJ, and I have enjoyed Lara's... attributes (especially during her "wet" moments, hehe), but if I can choose, I always go for the male. The thing is, I've never really even considered the option of playing as a girl. Maybe I will, one day, sooner or later, now that I think about it. But somehow, for me, the immersion feels stronger when I'm playing as a man. It kinda fits, like a glove. I usually tend to make the character look as much as myself, because I want to feel that I am inside the gameworld, playing. I experience as me, or an alter ego very close to me, is doing the missions, doing this, doing that, etc.

I guess the thing is that we accentuate different things: you go for the thing that would most detach you from your surroundings, while I go for the thing that would most attach/immerse me in the game that I'm playing. So in a way, I inject "my settings" into the gameworld itself, while you opt for a different approach (deciding those "settings" in a novel way, or on the fly, etc.)

And obviously both "modes" work. I have to try playing as a girl in some RPG. And KOTOR is a great game, loved it!

 

[DuX1112]

I'm a female gamer and like Embz I like to customise my own characters, it makes a game more interesting in most cases as I'm sure you all agree. Having the option to be a female character is always nice but not just for women I guess because I bet there are many males out there that like to choose the female characters lol (like my fiancé for instance).
I also agree on the point that some games just have a male feel to them, I honestly don't mind if the games main character is set as male or female but when presented with a choice I 99% of the time pick the female character, always have, even since I was a little 3 year old girl playing Saga mega drive with my father haha!

Yup, very similar to where I'm standing.

Thanks for entering the discussion, Ray_J4626, and welcome to the Escapist!

 

[Zer_]

It's the worst on MMORPGs
I can't move from one side of a room or area to the other side in the MMO Phantasy Star Universe without some asshole messaging me:

Want to send me a pic?

This. I am forever getting this.

Why can I not just enjoy my game as a player, instead of an object?

I hate it when this happens. Drives me nuts. The answer is always no. Always. Yet they keep asking, like if they're persistent it's going to change, when it reality all it gets them is a report.

Unfortunately, you can't fault the games. Lots of kids are immature, and the shitty part is that lots of adults are just as bad too.

 

[Insideout Ink Demon]

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snip

snip

Don't worry about the snipping. Anyways, thanks for caring about it.

Thanks for the White Knight explanation too. That being said, just 5 minutes ago a friend of mine told me I didn't care about her (problems). Well I don't, and I've told her before when she'd accuse me of such a 'sin', because her problems are not mine, dammit. Pretty natural to me. So I guess I'm not a White Knight. I'd rather not be, since I've had my fair share of sticking my neck out for girls, anyways.

About playing as a different gender. Well, I don't know, I sure don't mind playing Tomb Raider, or The Longest Journey too (I think it the second one?). Or Siberia, for that matter. I almost fell in love with the female character in TLJ, and I have enjoyed Lara's... attributes (especially during her "wet" moments, hehe), but if I can choose, I always go for the male. The thing is, I've never really even considered the option of playing as a girl. Maybe I will, one day, sooner or later, now that I think about it. But somehow, for me, the immersion feels stronger when I'm playing as a man. It kinda fits, like a glove. I usually tend to make the character look as much as myself, because I want to feel that I am inside the gameworld, playing. I experience as me, or an alter ego very close to me, is doing the missions, doing this, doing that, etc.

I guess the thing is that we accentuate different things: you go for the thing that would most detach you from your surroundings, while I go for the thing that would most attach/immerse me in the game that I'm playing. So in a way, I inject "my settings" into the gameworld itself, while you opt for a different approach (deciding those "settings" in a novel way, or on the fly, etc.)

And obviously both "modes" work. I have to try playing as a girl in some RPG. And KOTOR is a great game, loved it!

I've never thought to make a character look like me for an RPG. I've always aimed for as different as possible. Maybe I should give it a go to see how it feels.

Exactly man, if you don't wanna hear people moan on about the cr*p in their life, does their gender matter?
When I say someones a White Knight I do sometimes feel bad, its not like they're doing it out of malice. So I'll say this to the guy who started the topic:

If you really want to point out sexism in gaming, don't worry about obvious T&A for T&A's sake, look at how what should be strong female comander, is getting undermined by what should be her subordinates ala ODST's Dare; http://lesbiangamers.com/2009/09/halo-odst-one-discourse-into-sexism-and-tolerance-veronica-dare-halo-character/ *Spoilers*

 

[TheRocketeer]

I think what we have here is a problem that is very poorly understood by both sides.

Women aren't objectified in games because developers look down on women. Women are objectified in games because developers look down on guys.

The women that people perceive as objectified in games aren't that way because the society of the game world pressures them from birth to pursue career paths that require wearing three square feet of red leather and high heels. They are that way because developers know that controller jockeys of every stripe will pay sixty dollars to watch a new ass waggle up and down on their television screen for eight hours, regardless of its context.

The solution is, as always, simple but impossible: if it bothers you, stop buying the damn games. If they already have your money, telling them to do better next time isn't going to mean anything.

But as it is, there is zero incentive for developers to stop, their own self-respect notwithstanding. If they take out the eye candy and are left with whatever else was backing it up, probably some mid-quality actioner with no plot and a temperamental camera, then they only get the money of the people who would have bought the title on its strength as a game, which might not be that many.

But as it stands, they're getting that money and whatever extra money they can pull in by having the Double-D's of Justice right on the box. Until the loss taken from the objectors at least equals the money gained from the objectifiers (and, to be honest, neither is probably all that significant either way), the status quo is fine as is.

 

[Agayek]

AND ANOTHER THING:
The other type of males that try to protect us from the pervs and assholes, I get the vibe that they are doing it just because I am a girl.
"White Knights" piss me off too....not as much as the other types but still.

While some almost certainly do, I think it's safe to say the majority of people who do are just decent human beings doing the right thing.

The whole "OMG GURL PIX!" thing got really old about the 4th time I ever heard it, so I've since developed a tendency to cuss out people who do it. Just because I'm so sick of it.

 

[TheScottishFella]

all guys are horny for girls (Unless gay)

I'm sorry mr. Zero Punctuation, but this is pure bullshit. Any male or female can be attracted to their own sex, regardless of their sexuality. I'm not ashamed to say that I find certain men attractive, and I'm VERY heterosexual.

No we are talking about a guy wanting to do it with the person in question are you telling me that this man you are attracted to did you feel like taking him in a dark corner and having hot coffee. What I am saying is I don't completely disagree that a man can't find another man attractive but I am talking sex.

 

[Caurus]

I touched on this subject yesterday [http://www.blueinkalchemy.com/2010/04/13/game-review-half-life-2/], and it's something that I'd like to expand upon. Basically, there's a tendency among both game designers and game players to marginalize, sexualize or downright denigrate the role of women both in the games and playing games. It's a stupid, misogynistic and shockingly accepted behavior, and I really wish it'd stop.

Thankyou! Agreed, completely.

I think more women gaming will just result in more topless male characters. There is not a solution other than people's general attitudes shaping up.
I think its almost an insult to assume all guys want that, most of my guy friends just laugh. There is a time and a place and I think games could do with losing a few cup sizes...

 

[DanielDeFig]

Great Topic to bring up, and unusual for a guy to do so sincereley. As a guy with a siter who plays games i'm fairly familiar with this topic, and think its an important one to discuss by both guys and gals.

The main thing i remember my siter mentioning when discussing this is that whil there are obviously some exaples of such extreme objectification that its absurd, generally she's fine with the more mild stuff but thinks that there should be some male "sexyness" to counter-balance (girls enjoy sexy, possibly shirtless, guys as much as guys enjoy short skirts and cleavage).