Glitch =! Skill... ?
- Thread starter WhiteTiger225
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Glitching below Favela in MW2 for example ->
Skillful? No, you are below the map shooting up at people as they run by, with no way for them to retaliate
not even required to be that good to get under the map, all it took was commando pro and the elavator glitch
Skillful? No, you are below the map shooting up at people as they run by, with no way for them to retaliate
not even required to be that good to get under the map, all it took was commando pro and the elavator glitch
Most glitches are rubbish, on that I agree. However, some truly do take skill. Example: The Z-slide in SSBB. If you don't know what I talk of, it's where a person basically breaks the physics engine and slides forward while performing the up A smash attack. The best one is Snake's, the Mortar slide. You can go from standing still to sliding across the stage rapidly while setting up and using the mortar. To do it takes a fairly complicated button/stick combo that I can't really describe (my friends who taught ut to me could), but suffice to say, if you can do it well, you have some skill. Most characters have a z-slide, but it sucks for some of them.
Got to 13 seconds, that's when it starts to show it really well.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CvbNohOQ3p8&feature=related
Note that this isn't me.
Got to 13 seconds, that's when it starts to show it really well.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CvbNohOQ3p8&feature=related
Note that this isn't me.
No, you're being obstreporous. All the moves that you insist are glitching in Smash bros are meant to be there. They're combos, all fighting games have combos, even Smash brothers, a waveshine is Bdown jumpcancel L/Rdiag down, it's a variation on a wave dash that every charcter can do. I'm pretty sure the Wave Dash (along with air dodging) is cut from Brawl because idiots who couldn't master it complained too much, which was a shame because they were great for maintaining the pace of a fight. Not to mention being an effective foil for Link and Dr Mario's various thrown attacks.WhiteTiger225 said:B-but.. Javeline glitch is in the controls, so it is not cheating if you are simply exploiting a game mechanic, since your precious brawl is
If you're referring to the hacks for Brawl that re-introduce wave dash and air dodge, fair enough, that's modding and shouldn't be in online play. In competition it's up the rule makers but that's definately breaking the game fo other people.
Javelin is not intentional, it's not deliberately there, it's not a standard part of competition and it's expressly listed as being bannable. Nobody sat down during development and came up with this combo on purpose. It's a sequence of inputs that lands you outside intended design, you shouldn't be able to fire the Javelin once dead, much less automatically.
If it's a glitch in the core gmeplay system, and it is open to be used by anyone, and it is difficult to perform than it does take skill to perform.
I can think of Starcraft, where there are glitches used by incredibly skilled players, that doesn't depend on race. It is an interesting additional barrier between pros and amateurs on who can do it properly, and who can do it fast.
If it adds to gameplay, than yea, it's pretty interesting to use.
I can think of Starcraft, where there are glitches used by incredibly skilled players, that doesn't depend on race. It is an interesting additional barrier between pros and amateurs on who can do it properly, and who can do it fast.
If it adds to gameplay, than yea, it's pretty interesting to use.
There's also Meta Knight's "<url=http://super-smash-bros.wikia.com/wiki/Infinite_Dimensional_Cape>infinite dimensional cape" glitch, which I think is banned for tournament play.Aura Guardian said:
Not to mention some other "not useful but fun to watch" glitches, like the permanent Puffed Up Jigglypuff on Bridge of Eldin...
Ah, yes. The Dash Attack Up Smash Cancel. Considering Link is one of my mains, I still have to figure out how to do that.Mstrswrd said:
Certainly not a gamebreaker, definitely, but really helpful.
I can see where you're coming from, yes. I can understand if you feel that a player using a severe glitch to win a match and then claiming it as skill is stupid. But let me give a counter example:
In the game Marvel vs. Capcom 2, Iceman can launch his opponent into the air and combo them into his super. If he does this, he will descend at a much faster rate than his opponent, so only half the hits from his super will land. However, if he sticks in and subsequently cancels one of his special attacks right before the super, he descends at a much slower rate, allowing him to land more hits from his super.
Let me reiterate: in order to make his super more powerful, Iceman must first land the combo, then perform AND cancel a special move in a very short amount of time (it must be cancelled in 1/60th of a second for best effect) before launching the super.
This is obviously a programming oversight. The developers likely never intended for Iceman to be able to do this. It is, by most people's definitions, a glitch.
Does it take skill? You tell me: do you think that an average person has the reflexes and coordination necessary to be able to perform the required actions within a fraction of a second? How much practice would it take to be able to do this glitch consistently in Training Mode? How much more practice would it take be able to do this glitch on command in the middle of a heated match?
Is it gamebreaking? No, Iceman is still a mid-tier character, and that likely wouldn't change much if he didn't have access to this glitch.
Should it be banned? It's not, and I doubt anyone would be able to change that.
The point I'm trying to make here is that glitch (ab)use is a part of competitive games, and that it can require a certain degree of skill. Sometimes it's rather tame, like the Iceman example here. Sometimes it ends up defining the entire metagame, like Wavedashing in SSBM (I'm not jumping back into that kettle of fish, thankyouverymuch). You can't just dismiss all glitches as "cheating" just because some people like to flaunt their ability to break a game.
In the game Marvel vs. Capcom 2, Iceman can launch his opponent into the air and combo them into his super. If he does this, he will descend at a much faster rate than his opponent, so only half the hits from his super will land. However, if he sticks in and subsequently cancels one of his special attacks right before the super, he descends at a much slower rate, allowing him to land more hits from his super.
Let me reiterate: in order to make his super more powerful, Iceman must first land the combo, then perform AND cancel a special move in a very short amount of time (it must be cancelled in 1/60th of a second for best effect) before launching the super.
This is obviously a programming oversight. The developers likely never intended for Iceman to be able to do this. It is, by most people's definitions, a glitch.
Does it take skill? You tell me: do you think that an average person has the reflexes and coordination necessary to be able to perform the required actions within a fraction of a second? How much practice would it take to be able to do this glitch consistently in Training Mode? How much more practice would it take be able to do this glitch on command in the middle of a heated match?
Is it gamebreaking? No, Iceman is still a mid-tier character, and that likely wouldn't change much if he didn't have access to this glitch.
Should it be banned? It's not, and I doubt anyone would be able to change that.
The point I'm trying to make here is that glitch (ab)use is a part of competitive games, and that it can require a certain degree of skill. Sometimes it's rather tame, like the Iceman example here. Sometimes it ends up defining the entire metagame, like Wavedashing in SSBM (I'm not jumping back into that kettle of fish, thankyouverymuch). You can't just dismiss all glitches as "cheating" just because some people like to flaunt their ability to break a game.
my buddy thinks that glitches were put in a game for the sole purpose of exploiting those glitches..keep in mind he never actually glitches and hates when people glitch..but my question is..if glitches were put there for the sole purpose of exploiting them..then why to they patch them so people can no longer use them? i hate ppl that glitch...i refuse to do it even in single player campaigns...sur ei'll pull cheap moves in the campaign..but that's about it..no glitches...glitches = bad juju...
another instance of yes and no.
Yes it takes skill to be able to locate flaws in the gaming world and manipulate them to your needs.
no it does not take skill to steal from other players cause ur a nine year old kid with crappy aim and reflexes...
Yes it takes skill to be able to locate flaws in the gaming world and manipulate them to your needs.
no it does not take skill to steal from other players cause ur a nine year old kid with crappy aim and reflexes...
it depends...
for example, there is a glitch in Super Mario World were you can pick up 2 items at the same time, it requires skill and a lot of luck to find it
but if its like "go trough wall to kill and not being killed" its kind of pointless and stupid, you are killing your own game and obviously will be bored (unles you take a particular joy in other people getting angry... wich only makes you a dick)
for example, there is a glitch in Super Mario World were you can pick up 2 items at the same time, it requires skill and a lot of luck to find it
but if its like "go trough wall to kill and not being killed" its kind of pointless and stupid, you are killing your own game and obviously will be bored (unles you take a particular joy in other people getting angry... wich only makes you a dick)
If you're not modifying the code of the game, then more power to you to exploit a glitch. If the developers missed something, and find it game breaking enough then they'll fix it. Until then it's fair game. I'm tired of the "boo-hoo, I can't play my game the way I want to play it" mentality. The other person is playing the game how they want to play it, using things coded into the game. Stop crying and man up. Things don't always go the way you want, and if you want the excuse "I play videogames to have fun!" then realize that the people fragging your ass also play videogames to have fun. If you aren't having fun because someone is killing you in an FPS, then maybe you should play another game, or play single player. Some of the funnest times I've had in on-line games is when someone was exploiting a bug, and finally figuring out how to get around it and kill them. Overcoming challenges can be very satisfying.
Glitches are used by people who are unskilled in one aspect or another. People use glitches if it's good for the person using the glitch, like for gaining levels or getting certain achievements/trophies. This means that they are always trying to benefit from a glitch and therefore, are unskilled all around.
No, but it means that the people who are claiming that their glitches are the product of their skill are about on par with a the skills of a rock.martin said:
OT: There are glitches that do take genuine skill to execute. I've yet to see someone use that as their justification for glitching however. When someone executes a really genuinly skillful glitch it's usually "damn, how the hell did you do that?" not "LOLZ HAXOR!"
Glitching is not skill. It's exploitation of a (usually) unintended cause and effect in the game to gain an advantage over other players who may, or may not, be using the same glitch.
HOWEVER.
There are some "glitches" that can be perfectly validated by calling them "Creative use of game mechanics". Such as the Halo 3 Battle Rifle Reload+Fire.
HOWEVER.
There are some "glitches" that can be perfectly validated by calling them "Creative use of game mechanics". Such as the Halo 3 Battle Rifle Reload+Fire.
Surely it depends on the glitch...
I recall a glitch in call of duty where you could get up on top of a roof shelter that was otherwise inaccessable (not a gamebreaker, it was not exceptionially high and in a terrible possition, however you had to run up a vertical wall to get there). In that scenario, there was a certain trick to getting up and there was no real benifet for doing so (other than showing off your leet skeelz). Basicially, if you get killed by the dawnville climb glitch you are a noob. [small]And quite probably afk[/small].
There are a great many examples of similar glitches (which are not likely to give one party any significant advantage/cheap kills). They are not cheap and if you feel the need to exploit them, expect to be fragged mercilessly for it.
I recall a glitch in call of duty where you could get up on top of a roof shelter that was otherwise inaccessable (not a gamebreaker, it was not exceptionially high and in a terrible possition, however you had to run up a vertical wall to get there). In that scenario, there was a certain trick to getting up and there was no real benifet for doing so (other than showing off your leet skeelz). Basicially, if you get killed by the dawnville climb glitch you are a noob. [small]And quite probably afk[/small].
There are a great many examples of similar glitches (which are not likely to give one party any significant advantage/cheap kills). They are not cheap and if you feel the need to exploit them, expect to be fragged mercilessly for it.
some glitches can take skill to do, but most of them is just a case of knowing them, which isn't hard thanks to the million billion glitch tutorials that litter the Internet.
Showing someone a glitch can be cool and skillful, but this immediately dissolves if you use a glitch to win, as it is cheating by definition; giving yourself an unfair advantage that the other players simply might not know of, or just flat-out refuse to use because they, unlike the glitcher, is not a little *****.
Basically it goes like this;
If EVERYONE in the game agrees, you can use them to mess around.
If it's a 'serious' game, glitching makes you deserve a kickban.
Also, people don't complain about glitchers because they kill them; people complain about glitchers because they kill them in a way or from a place that they aren't supposed to be able to.
Of course, overcoming the bug and killing someone in spite of them using it IS very satisfying... when it's possible, anyway. Depending on what the glitch is, you might have to just sit there and take it. I ask you, how would that be fun?
Although another way to write it might be Glitch = (!Skill), but that would change the meaning some what from 'Glitching doesn't mean skill' to 'Glitching is lack of skill'.
Showing someone a glitch can be cool and skillful, but this immediately dissolves if you use a glitch to win, as it is cheating by definition; giving yourself an unfair advantage that the other players simply might not know of, or just flat-out refuse to use because they, unlike the glitcher, is not a little *****.
Basically it goes like this;
If EVERYONE in the game agrees, you can use them to mess around.
If it's a 'serious' game, glitching makes you deserve a kickban.
Yes, but glitches by definition AREN'T coded into the game. They're OVERSIGHTS. Mistakes that aren't supposed to be there. Also I would like to point out the aneurysm-inducing fallacy in your statement by pointing out that if a person is playing how a person wants to play the game doesn't mean it's right, sports-manly or fair. I suppose you'll argue that hacking, using aim-bots and other things is perfectly fine too? By your logic, that is what you are saying.Vern said:
Also, people don't complain about glitchers because they kill them; people complain about glitchers because they kill them in a way or from a place that they aren't supposed to be able to.
Of course, overcoming the bug and killing someone in spite of them using it IS very satisfying... when it's possible, anyway. Depending on what the glitch is, you might have to just sit there and take it. I ask you, how would that be fun?
I noticed this as well.MorsePacific said:
Although another way to write it might be Glitch = (!Skill), but that would change the meaning some what from 'Glitching doesn't mean skill' to 'Glitching is lack of skill'.