Gods of Egypt - Clash of the ... White Men?

[008Zulu_v1legacy]

Ugh, all my friends know how much I dig mythology, lore, folk tales and the like, to the extent of doing my master's thesis on them, so I just know they're going to drag me to see this so they can ask me how true to source it was and watch my eyes roll right out of my head

Don't worry, I shall find one for you, and then we will go on a grand adventure together.

 

[Ihateregistering1]

Holy cow, I was unaware that this movie was directed by the same guy who directed "The Crow" and "Dark City" (Alex Proyas).

How the mighty have fallen.

 

[MrFalconfly]

Exactly.

It's a fantasy. A thought experiment. A "what if".

"What if Egyptians were white?" That sounds like a fantasy that has already been done to death.

Generally if you're going to use a setting, your changes should be somewhat deliberate. "What if in ancient Egypt the gods walked among the mortals?" is a cool premise and you could definitely do some interesting stuff with that, bringing mythology to life. Or maybe you want to have something deviate from historical accuracy because it allows for a more compelling story. That's also fine, you're making the movie better.

I'm not sure "It's fantasy, they don't have to be at all representative of reality" really works in an argument. Sure it's fantasy, but people would probably be complaining if at the end of the movie someone decided to walk on air and it was never given any explanation or setup. A fantasy setting doesn't give you license to ignore reality carte blanche, it just gives you the freedom to when doing so makes the setting more interesting.

Hell, I don't hear the same argument coming up in Lord of the Rings when people comment about how white everyone is in it. The response is always "It's a setting based on medieval England, it'd be weird if there were black people". I suppose it just isn't weird when we do it with Egypt because we're used to seeing the rest of the world depicted as white

Point being, it's a fantasy.

It needs no other justification than "that's what the director wants".

 

[Ihateregistering1]

No, its fantasy introduced into a real-world setting. This isn't some fictional land that goes by the same name because laziness, its historical Egypt with some addition elements added atop of it.

I haven't seen the movie, but didn't someone point out that not only does it not take place in historical Egypt, it doesn't even take place on planet earth? It's some sort of weird flat floating spaceship?

 

[Jadak]

Spoiler

No, its fantasy introduced into a real-world setting. This isn't some fictional land that goes by the same name because laziness, its historical Egypt with some addition elements added atop of it. If we had a regular old alien invasion movie, a fantasy scenario, set in the modern world you couldn't really change the history of the world. You're not going to be able to turn Turkey into the world's greatest superpower that has existed as such for four centuries and have 90% of the world's population be Jewish without turning some heads if your new movie is Die Hard But On A Seaplane. If you want to make a world like that, go ahead, but you have to make it distinct and different. You can have dragons flying around at D-Day, killing Nazis for their gold if you really want but the sudden introduction of fantasy elements doesn't override the historical setting and if you try to you're going to end up asking a lot of questions because the world in which the film takes place is non-sensical. You can do whatever you want in Tamriel or Middle-Earth, they don't even have to abide by the same laws of physics as the real world or they could mirror the real-world in a lot of ways, but if you're going to use a historical setting you have to have some historical accuracy and when its inaccurate you have to have a credulous, in-universe reason for why its historically inaccurate. Hell, even Abraham Lincoln: Vampire Slayer tried to maintain that.

Likewise, if you use a historical setting and then introduce fictional elements you have to let history continue as it happens in reality when those elements don't effect anything. Alternate timelines will continue to the same capacity if/until the fictional elements finally touch upon it. If one nature survivalist in Alaska who never interacted with somebody dies in an alternate timeline whereas he'd live for another twenty years and make no meaningful impact upon others or the environment around him it isn't going to cause a massive shift in the foreign policy of Vietnam. Unless specified otherwise the history of the rest of world will continue as it normally does.

Except this isn't historical Egypt with some fantasy elements added on top (which is what the rest of my post was talking about which you ignored for the sake of responding to the first line, but that's fine).

It's a completely made up environment using Egyptian mythology as it's theme. It doesn't take place during a real time period nor is set in Egypt (nor Earth for that matter). It's set in a god fabricated disc-world referred to in it's entirety as Egypt.

No, its fantasy introduced into a real-world setting. This isn't some fictional land that goes by the same name because laziness, its historical Egypt with some addition elements added atop of it.

Or in other words, yes it is and no it isn't. This is absolutely not Egypt. They wanted a story about the Egyptian gods and related theme and the only connections to real Egypt are simply for the sake of matching that theme.

 

[wulf3n]

Saw the movie last night, not as bad as you'd think.

Better than Transformers at any rate.

 

[Ihateregistering1]

No, its fantasy introduced into a real-world setting. This isn't some fictional land that goes by the same name because laziness, its historical Egypt with some addition elements added atop of it.

I haven't seen the movie, but didn't someone point out that not only does it not take place in historical Egypt, it doesn't even take place on planet earth? It's some sort of weird flat floating spaceship?

No, its pretty clearly Egypt. I mean, its right in the title, "Egypt", and its obviously aping real-world Egyptian mythology. Additionally, while I haven't been able to verify it 100% but everything I read indicates that this isn't a fake Egypt like how Fire Emblem often takes place in fake Europe, but is in fact Egypt plus mythic elements. Again, that could be wrong but I haven't seen anything indicating otherwise.

Quote from the director that I found:
"...the world of Gods of Egypt never really existed. It is inspired by Egyptian mythology, but it makes no attempt at historical accuracy because that would be pointless, none of the events in the movie ever really happened. It is about as reality-based as Star Wars, which is not real at all ...Maybe one day if I get to make further chapters I will reveal the context of the when and where of the story. But one thing is for sure: it is not set in Ancient Egypt at all." -Alex Proyas

Again, having not seen the movie, I'd say it's based in Egyptian mythology in sort of the same way 'Too Human' was based around Norse Mythology (and from the sounds of things they are about the same quality). So essentially they just took cool ideas (ie. ancient mythologies) and spliced them into fantasy/sci-fi settings.

 

[hentropy]

I really wish someone would just make an accurate historical drama/war film about ancient Egypt. Well, as accurate as you can be while keeping it rated R, at least. The western obsession with mythologizing and mystifying a very real civilization that was not a land of magic smacks more of an annoying and understated kind of racism than the more obvious racism of whitewashing.

I think it's fine if done occasionally, King Arthur myths exist as a very divergent and fantastical retelling of something that may have happened, but there are many movies and stories about old Britannia that do not involve magic. The same can't be said for the ancient Egyptians or Persians or other non-European ancient civilizations. Hell, do something about Byzantines, give me anything other than more Hellenistic Greeks and Romans!

 

[Vanilla ISIS]

All I will say is that we're getting a double dose of Gerard Butler.
This week in Gods of Egypt, next week in London Has Fallen.
Also, he's got another 2 movies scheduled for this year.
Dude is keeping himself busy.

 

[Ihateregistering1]

This just made me realise that the new Assassin's Creed (movie?) which has been rumored to be set in Ancient Egypt is going to bring lovely discussions.

It is? I honestly didn't even know that.

The fools!!! What are they thinking!?!?!

 

[Blood Brain Barrier]

Weeeelll.... There's a historical precedent for Ancient Egypt to have contained more than a few "white" faces. DNA tests have shown that modern inhabitants of the region aren't genetically related to the mummies we've dug up. According to some Greek scholars, Ramses more than likely had blond hair!

Now, as to whether this is "dark hair bleached by constant exposure to sunlight" blond or natural blond? That's something else entirely. Plus, considering how the local gene pool had gotten a lot more diverse by the time Cleopatra took the throne (she being of Greek descent), I don't find that all too surprising.

Who cares? There's no reason the actors should be egyptian or have the same complexion. They're acting.

 

[Auberon]

I'm calling any historian with knowledge of Egyptian skin colour before Nubians, Ptolemaics and whoever else invaded and started mixing up the gene pool. It's Prince of Persia all over again with (presumably) 100% pure people of local ethnicity.

 

[Beetlebum]

This is what bothers me about the current social activists rhetoric. The insistence that all works and all groups should include them. Not just not exclude them, but actively work to get more of them represented.

Used to be that people would create their own things as a response, which provoked responses in and of themselves. It's how art grows. These days it must all be catered to everyone, lest anyone don't like it or worse, takes offense.

If you're focused on historical accuracy of the actor's race but gloss over the fact that the ancient Egyptians didn't speak English, historical accuracy isn't your problem, race is.

 

[Dalisclock]

I'm all for trying to get appropriate casting where possible, for setting and time period.

However, as others have pointed out, we don't really know what the ancient Egyptians looked like, and there's other issues that this movie really doesn't seem to care about getting the overall mythology right and the fact that, let's face it, in a year, nobody is gonna remember this movie.