GOG.com Supports Windows 8

[Something Amyss]

Of course they do, they're the sensible ones.

Notch is good at complex systems masked by crappy graphics,

Gabe is good at digital downloads and a gaming social network,

Neither of them are good at OS-judging.

But as long as they have millions of fanboys telling them their shit don't stink, they'll keep at it. And as long as those fanboys believe them, they can validate pretty much everything.

 

[Loonyyy]

The headline is a bit misleading. GOG is saying that most of their catalogue is compatable with Windows 8. They don't seem to be expressing approval of the system in any particular way.

Notch, Newell, et al, have expressed disapproval, but aren't saying that their games won't run on it.

They're two different categories, not to be conflated.

For WHY they have a problem with it?

There's a bit of a disconnect here (and Microsoft is purposely confusing this).

Real 'Windows 8' on x86 CPUs is almost completely Win7 compatible, and almost every single game you can play in Win7 will work in Win8 - including all your Steam games, etc. I am running real Windows 8 (64-bit) on my gaming machine and haven't found one that won't. There's really nothing GoG has to do here except, as you say, retest them and set some of them into XP compat mode like you would under Win7. Any of your existing disks/installers that would work on Win7 can be installed and run normally as well.

The other 'Windows 8' is WinRT - that's 'Windows' on ARM chips, with a lot of functionality missing. It won't run any of your existing apps or games. And it's like iOS - the ONLY way to get software on it for a normal user is through MS's App store, with the same punishing limitations as on XBLA. You can't just download and play some cool indie game - it'll be buried deep in the s#4%swamp like in XBLIG or it won't be there at all. You want to offer some new free content for your game? Nooo, that needs to cost something. And then there is the very strong suspicion that next they'll take this and apply it to desktop Windows.

That is what the devs are complaining about. The WinRT flavor of Windows 8.

The next problem is that Microsoft purposely obfuscates the difference between ARM Win8 (WinRT) and x86 Win8 to distract from how much doesn't work under ARM Win8 - because they want to sell Surface tablets. Talk to their salespeople and they won't tell you any of this @#$%, just that WinRT is 'real Windows!' which tells you nothing. MS will glibly refer to both as 'Windows 8' where possible and only specifically refer to WinRT when you press them on it or they need to legally disclaim some limitation.

The good news is that WinRT and WinRT devices seem to be selling poorly. We can only hope that keeps up.

The biggest concern is that Win8 will introduce users to the idea of a Apple like store in Windows, and the next version will force developers to use the Apple like store to get thier software to Win OS users.
Win8 itself isnt really an issue, its the idea that it gets users used to having a windows 'store' so when the store becomes the only way to bring software to the OS the users are already used to using it, and its only the 'greedy' developers that are arguing about it.

I am a little concerned as well, at the moment I can fiddle with C++ and SDL and if I want to 'launch' a game I make I can simply offer the download link and players can try my game, no hassle... with a certification system a developer would have to jump through various hoops set up by MS , possibly pay fees or lose IP ownership of software, and then have your application tossed into a system where it gets lost in a heap of other titles immediately unless you pay for some 'placement advantages'.

The real fear is MS wants to kill hardcore PC gaming as its a competitor for its own consoles, turn its PC OS advantages into making the PC a Apple like store system for its PC OS and new tablet so it can gain royalties on each title on the PC/Tablet (including charging for patches).

MS wants to gain Apple like control over the PC, and many see Win8 and its Metro store system as the beginning to reach that goal.

What is being criticized about Windows 8 is not its current form or capabilities, but that it is a "foot in the door" technique by Microsoft, in an attempt to make PCs into an iOS-like closed market.

This won't happen overnight, but it's clearly the path they are taking, and sites like GOG will suffer greatly once the certification process for the MS Store is no longer optional.


But hey, rather than read the many articles posted on the subject, it's easier to just assume that nay-sayers are just knee-jerking away for profit... Even when this time we have the unprecedented situation of influential independent developers/publishers taking a stand, something rarely (if ever) seen in the latest years of corporate-dominated industry.

Nocth and Gabe are also deliberately confusing WinRT and Winx86.

That's MS's doing. They created and encourage the confusion. Windows 8 = Metro App Store. And oh yeah *mumble* you can still use your old stuff on Intel version if you must.

Could it be that Notch is trying to force Microsoft to wave the fees for the WinRT version of minecraft like they did for XBLA. Gabe doesn't run the biggest gaming download site which also requires certification, are you surprised that he denounces a rival product?

There is obviously vested interest there, so yes, that's something to consider. But both Gabe and Notch have been very generous with the community - they can afford to be, of course. But they both genuinely seem to want to do good things for PC gamers and it's silly to paint them as simple rapacious profiteers. They know if they give you stuff for free you'll throw money at them and they do good at the same time. Win win.

The real concern is that this will come back to the desktop PC. In the Win8 Metro world, there is no room at all for all the things you get for free or extremely cheap on Steam, Good Old Games, Amazon Gold Deals, Humble Bundle, someone's website, abandonware sites, or even Minecraft's entire development model.

I don't think anyone at all cares if this stays confined to WinRT devices.

It's the concern that the system will become essentially a closed system.

That's why people like Notch (Who, as an indie, knows that being able to get your games to people without paying for them to be used is vital), Gabe Newell (Who, while he does have a profit motive, generally knows his stuff), Rob Pardo, Alen Ladavac, and Richard fucking Stallman (Who has been concerned with this sort of crap for years, and can only profit from Windows becoming less useful to hardcore PC Gamers), are concerned by the OS.

(Ladavac pointed out something very important here: http://www.escapistmagazine.com/news/view/120526-Serious-Sam-Studio-Exec-Joins-Anti-Windows-8-Chorus . That stupid Metro interface? You can't release a tiled app through anything but the Metro Store. Which coupled with Windows making it the default, and trying to stop people from setting their system to only use the regular desktop, are highly concerning for those who would rather release with certification, which lets Microsoft bleed devs and publishers for more money, and, as we've heard recently, may include charging devs for patches or updates of free content! It also means that the more casual consumers are going to be less likely to be using those games. If the default option is Metro, and it takes fiddling to get rid of it, and then the applications are harder to install, pray tell, what are the more casual gamers going to do?

At the moment, Windows occupies a sweet spot for PC Gaming: It's a relatively open system, where the user can do what they want, and install what they want, and configure it how they want. It's also one of the most popular and mainstream OSs.

Mac is less open, in a way that Windows seems to be heading towards.

Linux is much more open, but more fiddly, and because of the many distros, harder to ensure that software will run on all builds.

If Windows stops being an option, devs who can't afford certification are going to have to resort to Linux only, which are much smaller markets, and make it harder to sell games which work. Which is BAD.

Of course Notch and Valve would have to pay more to use this system. But stop saying it's "Greed". That's moronic. If that's greed, then Microsoft doing this is also greed (Since you accept the premise that they're concerned about forced certification costs to call them greedy), and at that point I have to ask you: Whose greed is justifiable? The ones who's system would prevent games like Minecraft from existing? Or the ones who would like to be able to sell their products without getting bleed by Microsoft?

And, as the user, you're getting fucked too. The less open system is not an advantage to you, in any way. So defending it is mind boggling. It doesn't help you, for some people it actively antagonises them or causes them trouble, and it hurts those who give you games.

But no, we're just fucking fanboys. We're too busy blowing Notch and Gabe. Ignore us.

 

[grigjd3]

Can't say I'm terribly interested in Win 8 until I've reached the point where Win 7 doesn't seem to be doing the job anymore.

 

[Formica Archonis]

Can't say I'm terribly interested in Win 8 until I've reached the point where Win 7 doesn't seem to be doing the job anymore.

Since it's mostly Win 7 with Metro bolted on clumsily while the old stuff is crippled so you can't just ignore Metro, I don't see Win 7 "not doing the job" for almost anything unless Win 8 is even worse at the job. I've been using Windows 8 on and off for a few days now as part of my work and while I see a few improvements under the hood, the interface is driving me nuts.

Seriously, I have to switch between Desktop and Metro to do some administration tasks because the functionality was half-stripped out of Desktop but never fully implemented in Metro. I shouldn't have to switch between two completely different UIs just to make a new user and give him a standard set of privileges!

 

[ResonanceSD]

Of course they do, they're the sensible ones.

Notch is good at complex systems masked by crappy graphics,

Gabe is good at digital downloads and a gaming social network,

Neither of them are good at OS-judging.

Gabe worked at Microsoft for 13 years... And he has shown to have a lot more vision than Steve Ballmer.

It's a shame GOG supports Win 8, it's better for everyone involved to ignore that OS.

Because...why? Do none of your games run on WIn 8? Do you not know how to turn off Tiles? Do you even own it?

 

[hatseflats]

Because...why? Do none of your games run on WIn 8? Do you not know how to turn off Tiles? Do you even own it?

and what?
because we have not an option to turn off the metro tables?

oh, wait. you can. what a shock.

How to disable the Metro interface in Windows 8
http://www.dedoimedo.com/computers/windows-8-metro.html

Oh wait, you totally can't in the final release. Disabling Metro was only possible in the pre-release versions. Which is one thing why I think Win 8 is a complete dickmove by MS. If they had offered consumers a clear option to disable it in the control panel I wouldn't have been bothered.

It's a shame GOG supports Win 8, it's better for everyone involved to ignore that OS.

Erm, no, it really isn't better. Because what about all the consumers that will be purchasing new laptops or machines with Windows 8 pre-loaded. They don't know how to revert back, and thus are "stuck" with 8. What if they have a small Steam library of a few titles they like to break out now and again, what if they have a few titles off GOG that they play for a bit of nostalgia?

Your statement would exclude those users purely off an OS they got with their machine, something their lack of expertise makes them have to stick with. Sure, they could get a professional, or someone in their family that knows a little more than they do to revert to 7. But how many people actually want the hassle of that, they just want it to work.

So, in actuality, the fact that GOG supports Windows 8 is the opposite of a shame, it's the most inclusive move GOG could have done with Windows 8 and it's inevitable new users. You may not like what MS has done with Windows 8 and have your own vendetta against it (though the vast majority of sensible people I have spoken to about it that have actually tried it for more than 5 minutes have had almost all reservations put to rest about it), but please don't let your "ignoring the OS" be taken out on the user who just wants stuff to work on their new OS.

Actually... That's a pretty fair statement. I hadn't thought about it that way. I still prefer companies not to supportWin 8, and even that they ensure it doesn't run by crippling it wholly on Win 8, but that does imply sacrificing the current Win 8 users. Still, I think that's totally worth it. This is not the right direction, not for consumers, not for companies, not even for Microsoft itself. MS are making a capital mistake here and they better drop this as soon as possible. If they're destroyed (as they are almost guaranteed to be if they continue like this) consumers are left with only Linux and OSX, which means there's only one commercial OS available, and all Windows software will become obsolete. What a waste that would be, and competition would be even more limited than it is today.

 

[Griffolion]

-snip-

Yeah, you're referring to precisely the kinds of risks Microsoft are pulling to try and stay relevant in an industry that has quite clearly expanded away from the typical "mouse & keyboard" interface that we've had essentially the same of since '95.

However, Microsoft not trying something new, not innovating, is as much as a risk. I personally called this ages ago - and am still waiting for my internet points from the ether to appear in my life - that Windows 8, by simple definition of the times we live in now (technologically) will be pounded on. Hard.

Explanation (remembering to keep in mind the context of Apples iPad tablets, Android tablets, touch screens, and all these other new and exciting methods of computing interaction):

Scenario 1: Release Windows 8 which is basically an improved, quicker, more stable Windows 7, but is still the old basic conceptual interface (and no brand new coatings of graphics paint will ever change that) from 95. Proceed to get shit on by everyone for not being "innovative" in the face of Apple and Google who are surging ahead with touch-screen mobile devices that are enabling much less "formal" interactions with computers to get things done etc.

Scenario 2: React to the way of the market, and set out to move in the way it has gone, but in your own unique style, rebranding and refreshing your existing, popular OS for the next generation of computing devices. Proceed to get shit on by everyone because you've changed everything, nothing is the same, "I want my old stuff back", "what the hell is this new look shit, what was wrong with the old way" (this especially ironic, as that particular statement will be from the same person who, in scenario one, would be bagging on MS for not innovating to keep pace with Apple and Google).

This was so blindingly obvious, that anyone with half a brain could tell where MS would be going with this. This is why, for all its faults, I greatly admire the new Windows 8 interface, because it shows a Microsoft we haven't seen since 1995. I'm also utterly astounded at how fast it "feels", they've done serious work under the hood; and i'm impressed at how they've gotten all these new features into Windows 8, while using 128MB less RAM than Windows 7 did.

As you say, this idea of one software store that MS wholly control, is negative. But it's impossible to really do or say anything about that until MS reveal their cards about it. It could be the software store as we see it now, "there but not compulsary", might actually be Microsoft's full hand about this. If in Windows 9 they force the hand of developers, then it's over to Ubuntu I go with a hell of a lot of people. Only to find that, by that time, Steam will be full "steam" ahead on Linux!

As I said, it remains to be seen, and any doom-saying regarding it right now goes up there with the crazy guys with the bullhorns telling us to turn or burn because the kingdom is coming real soon. I personally am erring on the side of, "the store how we see it now will be how it remains", mainly because Microsoft has demonstrated in Windows Phone that they are after a healthy balance between the Tyrannical control methods of Apple and the wild west, uncontrolled freedom of software that Google tends to espouse. If they strike that balance in Windows-proper, then they have nothing to worry about as far as I'm concerned.

 

[ASnogarD]

Waiting until MS shows thier hand will be waaaay too late...

The sneaky part of this issue is how Win8 gets users used to using a store that conviniantly placed for ease of use to the USER, when the next OS forces the DEVELOPERS to use the store to get software to the USER is where the traps closes on you.
The vast majority of USERS are not that bothered about the store and where the software comes from, and they wont care about the woes of the DEVELOPERS.

See how it works, get the USERS in the store then the DEVELOPERS have no choice.

Look at Linux , free OS with much of the Win OS's abilities but is a pain to set up and isnt so conviniant so the majority of the users dont use it, so the majority of the developers need to use Win OS.
Apple store users dont care about the issues the Apple app developers have with Apple, the majority of users only want conviniance.

Win8 is the step that migrates users to the store.

 

[Vigormortis]

I needed a good laugh today, and the Escapist did not disappoint.

First, a fairly humorous Extra Punctuation. Then, a news item with a misleading title about a hot-button topic. A news item which was followed by post responses full of rhetoric, angry accusations, flimsy excuses, and hypocritical statements.

Fun stuff. Especially the wealth of misquotes, misinterpretations, and misinformation coming from both sides of the argument.

Call me when people are actually willing to objectively discuss the topic of Windows 8 and the future of Microsoft.

 

[TheEndlessGrey]

The other Windows 8 is Windows RT - that's 'Windows' on ARM chips, with a lot of functionality missing. It won't run your existing Windows apps or games. And it will *only* run programs you buy and install through the Windows 8 store.

Nocth and Gabe are also deliberately confusing WinRT and Winx86. Notch is quite happy to pay for certification on IOS and android(google play) but not for WinRT, no double standards there then. Could it be that Notch is trying to force Microsoft to wave the fees for the WinRT version of minecraft like they did for XBLA. Gabe doesn't run the biggest gaming download site which also requires certification, are you surprised that he denounces a rival product?

Kept the relevant part of the original quote for you. From what I've gathered, the concern Valve has is that, while right now Win8 (x86 and x64) is basically still just Win7 with the addition of the (not mandatory) RT-styled store, WinRT itself is completely closed. What if, one day down the road, MS decides to make the x86 and x64 versions closed? Their games sell well enough, but I'm going to go out on a limb and theorize that the bulk of their revenue comes from Steam. So what if Steam is one day made useless because MS wants to squeeze the PC market for a share of every program sold, locks out Steam, and forces everything to go through the MS store? There goes the farm. Will it be possible for advanced users to get around that? Probably. Will the majority of consumers put that kind of effort into it? Probably not.

Do I think this is something that is going to happen, and it's only a matter of time? Not really. I think MS recognizes that they're losing enough ground in the PC space as it is, without messing with the status quo. My impression is that this is their whole reason for getting into tablets, because those devices are replacing laptops for a large number of users, and macbooks are becoming increasingly popular as well, taking another bite out of windows sales. The new Store (*see edit) is apparently part of the effort to build some kind of continuity into the full range of their products, so that you'll get more out of owning a windows PC, a windows tablet, and an xbox, than you would from owning different brands in each category. In theory, it's a smart move. In execution... I guess we'll see as the year rolls on.

So all that said, do I think Valve is smart to cover their asses by moving to support Linux, just in case? Absolutely. Do I think that raising a stink over it publicly is a heavy handed effort to pressure MS into not making the kind of moves they're afraid of? Again, absolutely.


* Edit: the inclusion of the new store in PC based windows releases is there for continuity. In the tablet and smartphone world it's there because that's what Apple does.

 

[Andrew_C]

because we have not an option to turn off the metro tables?

oh, wait. you can. what a shock.

How to disable the Metro interface in Windows 8
http://www.dedoimedo.com/computers/windows-8-metro.html

That information is way out of date. You can't disable TIFKAM (The Interface Formerly Known As Metro) in the released version of Windows 8. They removed that registry key.

Fortunately you can install something like Classic Shell or Start8 so you won't be staring at the Start Screen every time you press the Windows key or click the Start icon added whatever program you use. You will also have to change the association for every file type so they are not opened by TIFKAM programs (the default, if one exists).

EDIT: It's not called Metro anymore. Depending on time of day and cycle of the moon it's either Windows Store UI, Modern UI or Windows 8 UI. Microsoft wont say why they can't use Metro any more. The most popular theory is that a large European retail group owns all right to the trademark and objected to Microsoft not bothering to attempt to licence it.

 

[Boris Goodenough]

Gabe is good at digital downloads and a gaming social network,

He was a producer for the first three Windows, I am sure he has some understanding of how an OS works.

 

[exobook]

What is being criticized about Windows 8 is not its current form or capabilities, but that it is a "foot in the door" technique by Microsoft, in an attempt to make PCs into an iOS-like closed market.

The biggest concern is that Win8 will introduce users to the idea of a Apple like store in Windows, and the next version will force developers to use the Apple like store to get thier software to Win OS users.
Win8 itself isnt really an issue, its the idea that it gets users used to having a windows 'store' so when the store becomes the only way to bring software to the OS the users are already used to using it, and its only the 'greedy' developers that are arguing about it.

this is the objection that most people have, its the first step on a path, once you are walking it the next step and the one after that become easier and easier untill you have sleptwalked into something you hate.

what i wonder is would a totally closed system like people fear be legal in an anti monopoly sence?
i think it was here i was reading an article saying that microsoft were being fined by the EU over not implementing an option to have a selection of web browsers installed with new systems. letting you choose one from a list. lets face it having to go throught IE to download firefox or chrome seems small compared to having to get everything through a single shop yet it was still thought important enough to set up and act when it was not carried out.

A more abvious counter argument would be that no business (which less we forget is microsoft's main market) is going to use a closed operating system because it means that they won't be able to install company specific software or custom programmes. Though on the other hand no company is going to upgrade to windows 7 either because it doesn't work on old server models (you can't using it on 32bit server machines).

 

[Daygall65]

The classic gaming service has not only announced that it will officially support Windows 8, but that 431 of its 486 games are already compatible with the new operating system.

486... No one else noticed this?

Does it run at 33mhz 66mhz or 100mhz? Is it SX math co or DX...

Ok, I been playing with computers to long >_>

 

[Andrew_C]

A more abvious counter argument would be that no business (which less we forget is microsoft's main market) is going to use a closed operating system because it means that they won't be able to install company specific software or custom programmes. Though on the other hand no company is going to upgrade to windows 7 either because it doesn't work on old server models (you can't using it on 32bit server machines).

From what MS have been saying MSDN and Technet memberships will presumably include the software tools needed to sideload WindowsRT apps onto WindowsRT. They will also presumably be included as part of volume licensing deals. The details appear to be a bit fuzzy still. However it is done you, or your company, will need a developer licence for Windows 8/RT.

EDIT A bit of clarification. With a developer licence and patience it's possible to individually sideload apps signed with that licence at the moment (or you wouldn't be able to test them on Windows RT devices). I can see that getting tedious quickly doing it for a whole company or division, though. Microsoft have said the tools are available. Unless by that they mean scripting the process using Powershell, in which case they are severely overestimating the skills of many Windows developers and admins.

 

[exobook]

A more abvious counter argument would be that no business (which less we forget is microsoft's main market) is going to use a closed operating system because it means that they won't be able to install company specific software or custom programmes. Though on the other hand no company is going to upgrade to windows 7 either because it doesn't work on old server models (you can't using it on 32bit server machines).

From what MS have been saying MSDN and Technet memberships will presumably include the software tools needed to sideload WindowsRT apps onto WindowsRT. They will also presumably be included as part of volume licensing deals. The details appear to be a bit fuzzy still. However it is done you, or your company, will need a developer licence for Windows 8/RT.

EDIT A bit of clarification. With a developer licence and patience it's possible to individually sideload apps signed with that licence at the moment (or you wouldn't be able to test them on Windows RT devices). I can see that getting tedious quickly doing it for a whole company or division, though. Microsoft have said the tools are available. Unless by that they mean scripting the process using Powershell, in which case they are severely overestimating the skills of many Windows developers and admins.

oh yes, like thats going to be popular (or afforadble) with the small to medium sized business

 

[Andrew_C]

A more abvious counter argument would be that no business (which less we forget is microsoft's main market) is going to use a closed operating system because it means that they won't be able to install company specific software or custom programmes. Though on the other hand no company is going to upgrade to windows 7 either because it doesn't work on old server models (you can't using it on 32bit server machines).

From what MS have been saying MSDN and Technet memberships will presumably include the software tools needed to sideload WindowsRT apps onto WindowsRT. They will also presumably be included as part of volume licensing deals. The details appear to be a bit fuzzy still. However it is done you, or your company, will need a developer licence for Windows 8/RT.

EDIT A bit of clarification. With a developer licence and patience it's possible to individually sideload apps signed with that licence at the moment (or you wouldn't be able to test them on Windows RT devices). I can see that getting tedious quickly doing it for a whole company or division, though. Microsoft have said the tools are available. Unless by that they mean scripting the process using Powershell, in which case they are severely overestimating the skills of many Windows developers and admins.

oh yes, like thats going to be popular (or afforadble) with the small to medium sized business

I didn't say it would be cheap or easy. While Microsoft do seem to have thought about the issue, what they have at the moment seems to be more of a side-effect of the Windows Store developer program than a real effort. It's definitely going to cause heartache for SME's.