GOG Offers Dark Matter Refunds

[wulf3n]

Every game had a significant and objective failing with it, yes. Similar to what happened with Dark Matter - false advertising.

Was this really falsely advertised? What have they said/implied would be in the game that wasn't?

The more I think about it the more I think Valve and GoG are in the wrong.

Sure Dark Matter doesn't "end" the way people expect or want, but hey so did The Sopranos.

They have not lied about the game in any way (AFAIK).

This is like asking for a refund after you've watched an entire movie or eaten an entire meal, on the basis of "It wasn't what I was expecting".

 

[Abomination]

Every game had a significant and objective failing with it, yes. Similar to what happened with Dark Matter - false advertising.

Was this really falsely advertised? What have they said/implied would be in the game that wasn't?

The more I think about it the more I think Valve and GoG are in the wrong.

Sure Dark Matter doesn't "end" the way people expect or want, but hey so did The Sopranos.

They have not lied about the game in any way (AFAIK).

This is like asking for a refund after you've watched an entire movie or eaten an entire meal, on the basis of "It wasn't what I was expecting".

In this game? Yes. The end credits and cause for the ending has been literally explained by the developer as "We didn't have enough money to FINISH the game. But we sold it anyway."

Someone has purchased an unfinished product when there was no indication it was unfinished. When something is sold it is naturally assumed the product is complete UNLESS ADVERTISED AS OTHERWISE. This was not advertised as otherwise, ergo it's false advertising by omission.

 

[wulf3n]

In this game? Yes. The end credits and cause for the ending has been literally explained by the developer as "We didn't have enough money to FINISH the game. But we sold it anyway."

No game is ever truly "finished" as there's always something the designers will want to add/tweak etc.

Someone has purchased an unfinished product when there was no indication it was unfinished. When something is sold it is naturally assumed the product is complete UNLESS ADVERTISED AS OTHERWISE. This was not advertised as otherwise, ergo it's false advertising by omission.

But this is where it gets fuzzy? from the perspective of the consumer how is it "incomplete"?

Is it unplayable? Does it advertise something it doesn't deliver?

You can't say it doesn't have an ending, because it does. It's just terrible and shows the developer ran out of money *cough* Rage *cough*

Really you're getting exactly what you were advertised, just with a terrible story that doesn't fit the standard start/middle/end structure, building you up and leaving you hanging.

 

[Abomination]

In this game? Yes. The end credits and cause for the ending has been literally explained by the developer as "We didn't have enough money to FINISH the game. But we sold it anyway."

No game is ever truly "finished" as there's always something the designers will want to add/tweak etc.

An addition or tweak is what you do to a finished product. This game didn't even have the decency to have an end. This is the equivalent of purchasing a car wit the boot missing when you know there's supposed to be a boot there, because the end of the car isn't even flat: it's open.

There are games that the designers wanted to add more but couldn't but it was never on this scale of fuckups.

 

[Lono Shrugged]

I don't think that this is really GOG's fault. I mean the War Z comparisons are not really applicable as that was directly related to the game not being represented properly and as noted, Valve rectified their mistake against a surprising number of people who said they were satisfied with the game (I know, right?) Shittyness of game aside, the basic experience promised should match what you get. Nothing to do with quality and I think it's cool GOG and Steam sell shitty games. There are loads of shitty games I love

I guess the fact that it came out in the wash that this game was episodic certainly warranted a change on the page but the refund is too much and considering the fact people "own" the game and are not returning it compounds it. GOG should not have to pay for a dev's mistake. A clean removal would be preferable in my opinion as this could set a dangerous precedent for GOG. Short term consumer buzz "hey these guys are cool for refunding an unfinished game" to get a leg up over steam could really come back and bite them

I think the finger should really rest on the new wave of Greenlight and Kickstarter dev's. The people who are not delivering on promises. Great work is being done, but some people cannot hack it and it should be brought to attention sooner rather than later. As they say in acting, not everyone was born to play Hamlet.

 

[wulf3n]

An addition or tweak is what you do to a finished product. This game didn't even have the decency to have an end. This is the equivalent of purchasing a car wit the boot missing when you know there's supposed to be a boot there, because the end of the car isn't even flat: it's open.

There are games that the designers wanted to add more but couldn't but it was never on this scale of fuckups.

The game has an ending, it may be crap but the game still ends.

Now if you saying the story doesn't end, you're correct, but so does every game/movie/book with a cliff hanger but it doesn't mean they're incomplete or unsellable.

And yes, a cliff hanger is usually not the result of running out of money, but the principle is the same. You're not getting a complete story.

The idea that "They should have labelled it Episode 1" is kind of ridiculous. Does everything that is trying to setup a series have to expressly mention that it ends on a cliff hanger?

No one got upset that Assassins Creed wasn't called Assassins Creed Episode 1: The Altair Chronicles.

What bugs me is where moving down a path where a game must have X, Y, and Z to be considered "finished". Where encouraging games to follow a checklist.

 

[Abomination]

An addition or tweak is what you do to a finished product. This game didn't even have the decency to have an end. This is the equivalent of purchasing a car wit the boot missing when you know there's supposed to be a boot there, because the end of the car isn't even flat: it's open.

There are games that the designers wanted to add more but couldn't but it was never on this scale of fuckups.

The game has an ending, it may be crap but the game still ends.

Now if you saying the story doesn't end, you're correct, but so does every game/movie/book with a cliff hanger but it doesn't mean they're incomplete or unsellable.

And yes, a cliff hanger is usually not the result of running out of money, but the principle is the same. You're not getting a complete story.

The idea that "They should have labelled it Episode 1" is kind of ridiculous. Does everything that is trying to setup a series have to expressly mention that it ends on a cliff hanger?

No one got upset that Assassins Creed wasn't called Assassins Creed Episode 1: The Altair Chronicles.

What bugs me is where moving down a path where a game must have X, Y, and Z to be considered "finished". Where encouraging games to follow a checklist.

This wasn't even a chapter ending, let alone a story. This was a game literally stopping mid-play for no reason beyond the development team running out of money. This is not a complete product in any way, shape, or form.

Ending on a cliff-hanger at least has the decency to clearly be the end of a particular chapter or episode. There is no way this can be cut into saying it's a complete product. It is most certainly an incomplete product.

The end of Assassin's Creed I had the main character finally breaking out of captivity with Altier (sp) recovering his magic maguffin. Definite, significant end of a plot. Dark Matter has you entering a door as though you were going to transition to a different zone and the game just cuts out. That's it. It's over. I can't think of a single game that has ever done something like that. There is no comparison - that's how incomplete this game is.

 

[wulf3n]

This wasn't even a chapter ending, let alone a story. This was a game literally stopping mid-play for no reason beyond the development team running out of money. This is not a complete product in any way, shape, or form.

But I don't get how it's not complete?

Does it not have 14 levels as advertised?
Does it not have 4 weapons and 4 ammo types?
Does it not have 3 craftable upgrades...

You see where I'm going with this. It doesn't say it will leave you satisfied and content.

Yes they didn't get to make the game they wanted to make, but I don't see where you're not getting what they're advertising.

Ending on a cliff-hanger at least has the decency to clearly be the end of a particular chapter or episode. There is no way this can be cut into saying it's a complete product. It is most certainly an incomplete product.

Why does a story have to end a particular chapter or episode? This is the whole checklist thing.

The end of Assassin's Creed I had the main character finally breaking out of captivity with Altier (sp) recovering his magic maguffin. Definite, significant end of a plot. Dark Matter has you entering a door as though you were going to transition to a different zone and the game just cuts out. That's it. It's over. I can't think of a single game that has ever done something like that. There is no comparison - that's how incomplete this game is.

So it has done something original? No one has yet to explain how it is incomplete other than the developers wanted to add more but couldn't so they gave the audience what they had, rather than waste the time and money of everyone who worked on it.

 

[Abomination]

This wasn't even a chapter ending, let alone a story. This was a game literally stopping mid-play for no reason beyond the development team running out of money. This is not a complete product in any way, shape, or form.

But I don't get how it's not complete?

Because it has no conclusion.

A game cutting out mid-way through is not an ending. That's an unacceptable lack of content. That's a beta. That is not a complete game.

If you can't see how this game isn't complete on your own I'm afraid I'm not the person to engage in the philosophical gymnastics you're determined to play by.

It isn't complete. The distributors themselves believe it to be so.

 

[wulf3n]

A game cutting out mid-way through is not an ending. That's an unacceptable lack of content. That's a beta. That is not a complete game.

If you can't see how this game isn't complete on your own I'm afraid I'm not the person to engage in the philosophical gymnastics you're determined to play by.

It isn't complete. The distributors themselves believe it to be so.

I don't disagree that it's incomplete from a "What they wanted to make" perspective.

What I'm arguing is that it's complete in that it gives you everything it says it will give you.

Compare this incident to say Aliens: Colonial Marines, where Neither Steam nor GoG were bending over backwards to give refunds and prevent sales to a game that clearly wasn't what was being advertised.

What makes Dark Matter different to Colonial Marines? ...Oh that's right a Publisher that will tear Steam and GoG a new legal asshole if they tried it.

In the end I don't really disagree with the refunds being offered, in fact I think it should be a standard for all digital media to have a grace period in which a refund can be given, but what bugs me is the idea that both steam and gog have now stopped selling the game to anyone.

What happens If I don't give a shit that the game has a crappy ending, the general consensus is the rest of the game is pretty good, I might want to actually play that part.

It would be like Mass Effect 3 getting banned because its ending sucked, ignoring the 30+ hours of fun had before hand.

 

[Abomination]

A game cutting out mid-way through is not an ending. That's an unacceptable lack of content. That's a beta. That is not a complete game.

If you can't see how this game isn't complete on your own I'm afraid I'm not the person to engage in the philosophical gymnastics you're determined to play by.

It isn't complete. The distributors themselves believe it to be so.

I don't disagree that it's incomplete from a "What they wanted to make" perspective.

What I'm arguing is that it's complete in that it gives you everything it says it will give you.

Compare this incident to say Aliens: Colonial Marines, where Neither Steam nor GoG were bending over backwards to give refunds and prevent sales to a game that clearly wasn't what was being advertised.

What makes Dark Matter different to Colonial Marines? ...Oh that's right a Publisher that will tear Steam and GoG a new legal asshole if they tried it.

In the end I don't really disagree with the refunds being offered, in fact I think it should be a standard for all digital media to have a grace period in which a refund can be given, but what bugs me is the idea that both steam and gog have now stopped selling the game to anyone.

What happens If I don't give a shit that the game has a crappy ending, the general consensus is the rest of the game is pretty good, I might want to actually play that part.

It would be like Mass Effect 3 getting banned because its ending sucked, ignoring the 30+ hours of fun had before hand.

There's a difference between "sucked" and "not present".

I believe A:CM should have allowed refunds and if Valve wasn't willing to engage in the legal battle that might have ensured for doing so I feel they've set a poor precedent there.

That doesn't change how Dark Matter was an incomplete game. It wasn't even an incomplete game based on "What they wanted to make" perspective. It was flat out incomplete according to consumers and publishers as well, even if they hadn't been told the game just ran out of funding. This isn't the 1980s anymore, the standards expected of games have risen significantly. I'm not really willing on writing the full explanation here as to what type of game Dark Matter is and how a climactic ending with a boss battle is to be expected by any reasonable individual as opposed to other games, nor am I willing to get into the comparisons of international laws into determining what deems an item fit for purpose.

This was an incomplete game that was shipped when the developers knew it was incomplete. The consumer discovered it was incomplete after purchase and the distributors discovered it was incomplete after purchase. People were under the impression they were paying for a complete game. They did not get a complete game. Refunds given is the only acceptable outcome.

 

[barbzilla]

Once again, not very familiar with the game you mentioned. I played Rage at a buddies house for about 20 minutes to see if I would want it, and decided it wasn't for me. So, outside of that context, not super familiar with the ending or anything else about the game really. But, they still managed to produce a complete game that didn't send people into an instant rage (pun not intended), so that would be the difference. Whatever the ending content was of Dark Matter, it was sufficiently bad enough to cause an outrage.

I would compare this more to what Mass Effect 3 did, and that did cause enough outrage to cause some backlash and alternate effects. So that may be a much more comparable game. Now Mass Effect wasn't pulled, but they didn't advertize it in such a way as to overtly be contrary to the description of the game (nor was it sold on Steam, or it got pulled from steam due to Origin Exclusive, so we still don't have a direct comparison, but it is much closer than games that had bad endings that were apparently not so bad as to cause outrage, or an unfinished episodic game that released as such.

I think you misunderstood what I was saying about rage. It's not that it was a bad ending, it's that it wasn't the ending...

Ok that's not very clear either.

So in Dark Matter a entering a random door after the 14 promised levels from the developer triggers a wall of text. The problem, I guess, is that there's no build up to indicate the "End" of the game, it just sort of stops. This is exactly what Rage does. There's no build up, just a few wave encounters with enemies fought 1000's times before, then you push a button and a cut scene plays.

The only real difference between what Dark Matter and Rage did was Rage at least had a cutscene.

Which was apparently enough of an ending to keep people satisfied enough to not flip out about. I haven't heard any major complaints about it, was my point. So as I was explaining, the difference is, it was bad enough to make people mad enough at a video game to create a backlash. Had Rage's ending been that bad, I am sure there would have been a backlash as well.