Government Tries to Block Expert Testimony in Mod Chip Case

[ace_of_something]

after installing mod chips in Xbox 360 consoles for undercover agents belonging to the Entertainment Software Association and the U.S. Immigration and Customs Enforcement.

So....he helped the government and then the government fucked him up? :O im confused....why is everybody ignoring the fact WHO he modded for!

It was a sting...

a sting? lol i wonder how much of our tax dollars went into catching this CRIMINAL i mean u know we let murders and rapist walk but not this guy for modding a 360! ftw!

Tax dollars? Well let's see do you own a house or business?
No?
than none of your tax dollars went to pay for it. Federal and local law enforcement is based on property taxes (that way they can have a police force representative of the population)

Secondly if I had to guess, from doing undercover work for 2 years, plus I'm in charge of getting our Crimes Against Property division to be up to date with copyright laws... I'm going to say this cost: 1-2 days pay for 1-2 detectives and court costs which a guilty defendant CAN (and often times is) forced to pay out of their pocket. Especially, if they plead guilty (most people would rather pay a fine than go to jail) that way it costs the government a minimum.

Despite popular belief not everything in the gov't costs an arm and a leg. Politicians just like to pretend it does so they don't accidentally go over budget and get accused of overspending in the next election.

 

[JDKJ]

"Tax dollars? Well let's see do you own a house or business?
No?
than none of your tax dollars went to pay for it. Federal and local law enforcement is based on property taxes (that way they can have a police force representative of the population)"


Huh? From where are you getting that information? As far as I can tell, there's no such thing as a federal property tax. There are federal income tax deductions and credits available to property owners and mortgagees but there is no tax liability imposed by the federal government on property owners. Property taxes are levied by local county governments. And Immigration and Customs Enforcement (the federal agency that conducted the sting), a division of the Department of Homeland Security, is mostly certainly funded in large part by federal income tax dollars. If you've ever filed a 1040 with a check attached, then you've helped to fund ICE.

 

[JDKJ]

Because of a similar case here I had to attend a class on these laws (and other digital copyright laws)

Seriously people he's not modding them to rob the rich and feed the poor. He's modding them to steal games. Next time you beat a game look at the credits, THOSE are the people not getting paid for the game they worked hard on for months or YEARS.

In it's most basic explanation the law is, if you make something that can make piracy easier (which is theft by taking: a felony in most states) it's illegal. 3 years is a maximum sentence and unless he has a history of this even the most bias judge would have a hard time justifying maximum sentence. If he pleads he can get as little as 6 months in a minimum or medium classification facility and probably only serve half of it assuming he doesn't act the fool in jail.

It's illegal for a reason because it fucks with the free market and fucks with peoples jobs.

Boy, you are just a fountain of misinformation. Are you making this stuff up or has someone misinformed you? There is no "time off for good behavior" on a federal custodial sentence. Anyone with a federal custodial sentence will usually serve 95% of the length of that sentence.

 

[tehannihalator]

He seems to have broken the law.

I hope the accused -- if guilty -- is punished as such.

"As such"? I believe the objection is more to the severity of his punishment with regards to the crime.

Is a simple solution: don't break the law.

If you have ever jaywalked, littered, sped in your car, downloaded an mp3 file without paying some sort of cash fee, gambled with your friends, carried a knife with a blade over 2 inches long in public, taken pens or other office supplies from your job or school, or passed someone in front of a school zone in your car, you are a massive hypocrite.

Don't break the law, but only if you know you can't get away with it is what you're trying to say. 3 years for something as trivial as installing a mod chip is the most ridiculous thing I have heard of in a while.

you know the average person breaks the law 2 times everyday.

 

[ace_of_something]

Because of a similar case here I had to attend a class on these laws (and other digital copyright laws)

Seriously people he's not modding them to rob the rich and feed the poor. He's modding them to steal games. Next time you beat a game look at the credits, THOSE are the people not getting paid for the game they worked hard on for months or YEARS.

In it's most basic explanation the law is, if you make something that can make piracy easier (which is theft by taking: a felony in most states) it's illegal. 3 years is a maximum sentence and unless he has a history of this even the most bias judge would have a hard time justifying maximum sentence. If he pleads he can get as little as 6 months in a minimum or medium classification facility and probably only serve half of it assuming he doesn't act the fool in jail.

It's illegal for a reason because it fucks with the free market and fucks with peoples jobs.

Boy, you are just a fountain of misinformation. Are you making this stuff up or has someone misinformed you? There is no "time off for good behavior" on a federal custodial sentence. Anyone with a federal custodial sentence will usually serve 95% of the length of that sentence.

Nope, I admittedly only skimmed the article. You're absolutely correct, not to mention the conviction rate for federal cases is significantly higher.

I was thinking of local laws. My bad. I'll edit that.

 

[ace_of_something]

you know the average person breaks the law 2 times everyday.

I don't believe that for a second. Whatever helps ya sleep at night I guess.

excluding minor traffic violations of course.

 

[ace_of_something]

Huh? From where are you getting that information? As far as I can tell, there's no such thing as a federal property tax. There are federal income tax deductions and credits available to property owners and mortgagees but there is no tax liability imposed by the federal government on property owners. Property taxes are levied by local county governments. And Immigration and Customs Enforcement (the federal agency that conducted the sting), a division of the Department of Homeland Security, is mostly certainly funded in large part by federal income tax dollars. If you've ever filed a 1040 with a check attached, then you've helped to fund ICE.

Certainly, but the acquisition of property is what determines where your tax dollars are sent regionally. Sometimes I forget I don't need to oversimplify things for people because they can do Google searches to scan one unimportant part of what I said and miss the point completely.

I still stand by estimate that it probably took 2-4 days salary maybe a RSA for one day which is paid about the same. This doesn't seem that complex. Was he selling said Item/information? Yes. Than let's go ask him to sell us some. Oh he did. End of case.

OT:
The argument here isn't if he committed the crime. That's fairly cut and dry. He sold the item that isn't allowed.
They're trying to argue that it's an unfair law. Which is muddier. A better analogy is gun laws in the USA. You can commit crimes with guns but it's assumed when you're going to do legal things with them. The benefit of the doubt is given to the consumer.

The common knowledge is that most people use these chips to cheat or steal games. Two things I don't approve of.

EDIT: I am by no means an economist or lawyer. It's just what I think.

 

[Lightslei]

you know the average person breaks the law 2 times everyday.

I don't believe that for a second. Whatever helps ya sleep at night I guess.

excluding minor traffic violations of course.

It's called the absurd laws that mostly contribute to this. .

 

[Cheefa_Da_Reefa]

after installing mod chips in Xbox 360 consoles for undercover agents belonging to the Entertainment Software Association and the U.S. Immigration and Customs Enforcement.

So....he helped the government and then the government fucked him up? :O im confused....why is everybody ignoring the fact WHO he modded for!

It was a sting...

a sting? lol i wonder how much of our tax dollars went into catching this CRIMINAL i mean u know we let murders and rapist walk but not this guy for modding a 360! ftw!

Tax dollars? Well let's see do you own a house or business?
No?
than none of your tax dollars went to pay for it. Federal and local law enforcement is based on property taxes (that way they can have a police force representative of the population)

Secondly if I had to guess, from doing undercover work for 2 years, plus I'm in charge of getting our Crimes Against Property division to be up to date with copyright laws... I'm going to say this cost: 1-2 days pay for 1-2 detectives and court costs which a guilty defendant CAN (and often times is) forced to pay out of their pocket. Especially, if they plead guilty (most people would rather pay a fine than go to jail) that way it costs the government a minimum.

Despite popular belief not everything in the gov't costs an arm and a leg. Politicians just like to pretend it does so they don't accidentally go over budget and get accused of overspending in the next election.

pwnt!

 

[JDKJ]

Huh? From where are you getting that information? As far as I can tell, there's no such thing as a federal property tax. There are federal income tax deductions and credits available to property owners and mortgagees but there is no tax liability imposed by the federal government on property owners. Property taxes are levied by local county governments. And Immigration and Customs Enforcement (the federal agency that conducted the sting), a division of the Department of Homeland Security, is mostly certainly funded in large part by federal income tax dollars. If you've ever filed a 1040 with a check attached, then you've helped to fund ICE.

Certainly, but the acquisition of property is what determines where your tax dollars are sent regionally. Sometimes I forget I don't need to oversimplify things for people because they can do Google searches to scan one unimportant part of what I said and miss the point completely.

I still stand by estimate that it probably took 2-4 days salary maybe a RSA for one day which is paid about the same. This doesn't seem that complex. Was he selling said Item/information? Yes. Than let's go ask him to sell us some. Oh he did. End of case.

OT:
The argument here isn't if he committed the crime. That's fairly cut and dry. He sold the item that isn't allowed.
They're trying to argue that it's an unfair law. Which is muddier. A better analogy is gun laws in the USA. You can commit crimes with guns but it's assumed when you're going to do legal things with them. The benefit of the doubt is given to the consumer.

The common knowledge is that most people use these chips to cheat or steal games. Two things I don't approve of.

EDIT: I am by no means an economist or lawyer. It's just what I think.

Property tax rolls are often used to determine how local tax dollars are spent, particularly on public education (e.g., the more property taxes collected from within a given school district, the more of those tax dollars are spent in that district -- which is "fair and equitable" if not particularly "sensible"). But it bears little relevance to the expenditure of federal tax dollars. For example, ICE and Border Patrol resources are most prevalent in areas along the US-Mexico border where there's more open desert and wilderness than privately owned property upon which significant tax dollars can be collected. The perceived need for ICE and Border Patrol in a particular locale is what, more than anything else, influences the decision to deploy those resources.

As to the actual gravamen of the case under discussion and as a purely legal matter, the situation's a little more nuanced than you cast it. What the defense is trying to do is have their expert testify that it's an unfair law. That testimony would amount to a legal conclusion. Under the federal procedural and evidence rules, expert witnesses are prohibited from drawing legal conclusions as part of their testimony. This is why the prosecution is seeking to prohibit any such expert testimony. And I suspect that they're standing on firm legal ground is so doing. The defense can always challenge the validity of the law and/or its application. They just can't use an expert witness to do so.

 

[AmandaHuginkiss127]

edit.