Grad Student's Algorithm Answers, "What is Indie?"

[Zenja]

The second something is labeled 'indie' is stops being so. Like calling something an untold story.

Sounds like a fancy way of saying indie developers don't exist.

How does "Indie" not mean "independant"? I always seen indie as a tag for a developer without publisher backing.

I don't really understand the project here.

It's a little bit more loose than that.
Is Amnesia an indie game? That didn't have a publisher.
How about Warframe? No publisher.

Then yes. Just because the game has good funding doesnt make it not independant.

 

[DoPo]

You accused me contrarianism, yet here you are, doing nothing to respond with intellect, fishing for portions of sentences you can latch onto, without regard for context or meaning.

It's because you're trying to lead everything astray. You did not respond to what I asked, so I see no reason to respond to what you are saying. So do you actually want a proper conversation or not? Because so far you haven't tried to have one.

So let me break it down into child's speak:

"don't give a fuck"->[referring to]->your inane demand that I give you a definition for a word

It's the core of what is being discussed here. Without it, the discussion is basically meaningless. You will keep going "No, t's not that. No, it's not that, either." which is not very productive.

You barged in playing the arbiter, claiming savvy, yet all you've amounted to is bluster. Some arguer you are.

I didn't "barge in" anywhere - it's an open public forum. Something you already noted yourself. If you didn't want to speak to anybody else, you can take your conversation to private messages. If you want a public discussion, you aren't very good at facilitating one.

 

[Vigormortis]

Yes, the claim those 2 games are indie is ludicrous.

How so? You keep SAYING it is but never offer any explanation as to WHY.

Maybe start with explaining your definition of 'indie' instead of just hurling ad-hominems at me? Thanks.

By your logic, and this is not hyperbole, games like Assassin's Creed and Overwatch are 'indie'.

How do you parse that? Assassin's Creed isn't indie because the developer and publisher are two different companies, two different teams. Overwatch, however, could be considered indie. It's made by and published by the same company, the same team of people.

But since you consider that "asinine", then you clearly have a different definition of 'indie'. I'm only aware of a few other definitions for the term, two of which are divisions based on team size and/or budget. So, until you actually bother to clarify your position, I have no choice but to assume you hold to one of the definitions I'm familiar with.

"Rockstar published it", how does that validate anything you said?

Because my definition of 'indie' is a game developed and published by the same team within a company. If Rockstar coded the game and later published it then, by definition, it is 'indie'.

Again, if you disagree, perhaps consider sharing YOUR definition instead of being rude and just insulting me.

EA publishes games by EA, oh how indie of them.

In your odd, and unwarranted, fit of anger, you've completely missed my point.

EA has no real 'in-house' dev teams. They have contracted subsidiaries and 2nd party teams housed in other companies. So, for example, Mass Effect is not 'indie'. The development team and the publishing team are completely separate, each housed in a different company.

I don't understand why you're having so much trouble understanding my definition. Maybe it's a lack of information on certain games? I dunno...try Wikipedia, maybe?

Rockstar 'Games' published it, which is a subsidiary of Take-Two, and Rockstar 'North' developed it, along with half a dozen other studios the world over, all of which are subsidiaries of Rockstar 'Games'. Not one iota of that structure could be misconstrued as 'independent', 'cause Rockstar sure as shit ain't.

But Take-Two didn't publish the game, Rockstar did.

And, more over, those other teams are still a part of Rockstar. Do you consider, say, Star Citizen to not be indie, even though it's being developed by numerous, disparate companies? Would you consider Minecraft to not be indie, even though it too has had more teams involved than just those at Mojang?

Hate to beat a dead horse, but it would REALLY help if you got around to explaining your position. The insults and overly hostile tone aren't really helping.

Replace Rockstar with Ubisoft and North with Montreal, what do you get? Exactly.

Not really equivalent, but at this point I'm not sure I even could get my point across to you. You've become so hostile, over fucking nothing, that it feels like you're only interested in shouting at me rather than have a discussion.

This all can be found in that wikipedia page you used. Why are you linking something, if you don't even bother to understand the contents?

You're right. One of us certainly didn't understand the contents of the wiki page...

Terraria has nothing to do with anything,

Why not? It is, by most definitions, considered an 'indie' game. It's also widely popular. How does its inclusion into the discussion not merit a fair comparison?

and is an incredibly poor comparison to CDP.

How so? We're discussing what constitutes a game being considered 'indie'. If part of the definition includes things like budgets, team sizes, popularity, etc, how are Re-Logic and Terraria not a fair comparison?

Flimsy parallels aren't making your argument stronger.

At least I have a position. You've spent your entire diatribe on insulting me and other posters over our positions, while failing to offer your own.

You seem to be really hung up on 'portion' this, 'in-house' that, while completely ignoring the companies' structure and history,

No, that seems to be your issue. I'm specifically looking at the company structures when I gauge team compositions and a games status.

the thing that actually decides whether something is independent or not.

So your definition IS based on things like team size, budget, and team structure? Why, then, did you attack me for implying as much?

That's just bafflingly rude, dude. Seriously.

CDProject Red, developer of the Witcher games, is a division created in 2002 to develop and port games by the polish distributor, publisher and localiser CDProject, founded in 1994. These are facts, and no matter the initial poverty of CDP, this makes Witcher not an independent game. The end.

Wait, so now your definition is based on budget? I'm confused.

Please pick a definition and stick to it. This waffling back and forth is maddening and confusing.

And you said it yourself. CDPR is an in-house division of CDP. Ergo, a dev team WITHIN THE COMPANY. Not some separate entity. Not some contracted subsidiary. An in-house team. That, by definition (including one of your own) makes the The Witcher an 'indie' game.

You really need to define your position. As it stands you contradict yourself from moment to moment. One minute you're using a definition that could define one game as 'indie', the next that game suddenly becomes not 'indie'.

And where in the name of blue fuck did you get that I was saying that 'team size' and 'budget' are the separator between indie and otherwise?

Among other things, from comments like this:

"You seem to be really hung up on 'portion' this, 'in-house' that, while completely ignoring the companies' structure and history, the thing that actually decides whether something is independent or not."

"These are facts, and no matter the initial poverty of CDP, this makes Witcher not an independent game."

These imply divisions based on budget, team size/composition, etc. If they don't, please elaborate because otherwise your position is strange and contradictory.

Would you kindly reply to the contents of my comment next time, and not the interpretation you want to argue.

The irony is palpable.

 

[Vigormortis]

respond to something I don't give a fuck about

And yet here you are. If you really didn't give a fuck about it, why respond at all. And why are you trying hard to "posture". Funnily the same thing you're accusing me of.

He certainly seems quite livid over something he cares nothing about.

You still don't seem to have a point, just trying to disagree with other people.

Maybe that IS his point...