Graphics vs Gameplay

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Wolfram23

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To me it's not about how awesome the graphics are, but I think it really does matter that the graphics are cohesive. There needs to be some art direction. As mentioned about WoW the graphics quality is sub par, but the art direction was fantastic it's very very well done and to me that is the important part. Every area was unique and amazing even if it wasn't "super realistic". So if the graphics are "poor" but cohesive, then story/gameplay is the next big thing.

For instance, imagine BioShock 2 (because I just finished and loved it) if every room had striped walls of yellow and green and floors were pink and blue... ewwwww even if it is as well textured and detailed as it really is, that would have been a game breaker.
 

end_boss

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Jan 4, 2008
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I will also actually point out an example I use where better graphics have made games less immersive for me. One of the only real RTS games I've played to any real extent is an old game called Siege. There was no base building, your army is determined from the start of the mission and it's just up to you to manage them. You're either attacking the castle or defending it.

Anyhow, from a screenshot, the units look like they actually inhabit the battlefield, but in action, they are very inanimate, and only have about 16 sprites each - one to face in each direction, and one attacking in each direction. So when you break it down, the "units" are actually more like icons than anything, even though at first glance you can believe that they are existing in the space.

This was, oddly enough, the most immersive RTS game I've really played, and I really believe that it was due in large part to the graphical limitations. Given, another large part of the immersion was that I didn't have to really juggle resources and building, and so I was able to focus entirely on micro-managing my army, but when I played it again recently, I realized a strange feeling that I have never experienced in any RTS after this. Because the graphics were so limited, my mind was filling in the blanks that the computer couldn't fill. And so, when my troops went out to battle and one particular section was defending the main enemy entrance point against several waves, *I started to feel tired for them.* With each fresh new wave of enemies that flooded in immediately after the survivors of the last wave were retreating, I could feel the fatigue of my soldiers as they tried to stand their ground.

Sometimes, they would need to hold their position in time for their reinforcements to arrive, but the game will automatically cause them to retreat to the hospital once they got too weak. With my troops not too far behind, I instructed my army to hold their ground instead, and hold off until the new wave arrived so that they enemy wouldn't leak into the stronghold, and my mind could almost actually hear the commanders yelling and shouting to the troops as they wearily obey.

Next, we'll look at Command and Conquer. I played this a little, before I realized how much I suck at it. But the troops are well animated, and a few sound bytes allow the units to communicate to me that they have received their orders. From a technological standpoint, the game is several generations above Siege. But because the graphics were good and the animations made them more lively, the context jumped over to "what you see is what you get." Now, the troops run, duck, fire, and die with some flashy effects, but my mind no longer fills in what I think SHOULD be happening. When they run into a barrage of gunfire, they don't duck for cover, clutch at their wounds and fire in desperation, because the game no longer gives me the option to believe that they do. Their animations don't factor in fatigue, wounding, etc, so they really only have three states: alive, attacking and dead.

They have life bars, but I don't feel the empathy to call them back from battle, and so I leave them to fight until they are fully spent. When I do tell them to move positions to escape enemy fire, I no longer hear commanders shouting to the troop, because they vocally address me with "Affirmative."

So, although not every game can be summed up as analogous to this situation, this is an example that I always think about when somebody brings up the debate of graphics vs gameplay. This doesn't really take particular sides in the debate, but it does illustrate that graphics can be important, if we don't limit the view to "better graphics make better games."
 

Alarien

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Feb 9, 2010
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Gameplay always trumps graphics, however graphics shouldn't be ignored either. If you have the capability to do both, then do both. MMO's get away with sub-par graphics due to the technical constraints of the MMO format and having to push the polygons for large numbers of other players on the fly.

That said, some of the most "fun" I have is still in Dungeon Keeper 2, just because it's stupid fun, that's why. And the graphics are long since out of date.
 

The Heik

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Oct 12, 2008
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Soviet Heavy said:
No, not a vs thread, but rather a question.

Is it really required for a game to have good graphics to be deemed good? I ask this because many reviews I read nowadays bash games if their graphics don't wow the critic.

Why should graphics take priority in these situations? They fill their niche for sure, but they are not integral to a game.

Take for example WOW. Terrible graphics, by today's standards, sub par when the game was released. But does that stop the game from earning millions of accounts?

Or how about Starcraft? It's graphics are a joke, but it is stilled played by approximately four hundred percent of Korea's population to this day.

I suppose this question is more aimed at FPS's, where everything must be compared to either Crysis, or Modern Warfare 2. Why? Why should a game meet the requirements of a super computer, or the newest AAA game to be considered good?

Many of the AVP reviews I have been reading really like to ***** about the graphics. I seriously don't give a shit, the game looks fine. Who cares if it doesn't look as good as MW2? Its functional, it knows what it is doing. Why must it be compared and then declared outdated, simply because it doesn't look as good as something else?

Do you think that Graphics should take priority over gameplay?
Never, as the only thing that makes a game a game is your interactions with it. The game could be equivalent to the Mona Lisa and have a story that could make Genghis Khan cry, but if the gameplay is so broken that you can't even play it then all that work is never seen and becomes pointless.

By all means make the game beautiful, but never sacrifice the gameplay for graphics/story, because if you do you'll just have a movie that forces you to stop every little while to meddle with the settings.
 

Uber Evil

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IMHO I like good graphics, but I don't need them, but for games where it is supposed to have adequate graphics, bad graphics can get distracting. Take 1213, Yahtzee's game, for example. Wasn't supposed to be up-to-par with todays graphics, so I didn't care that much.
 

traineesword

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Jan 24, 2010
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I am in agreement of Gameplay over graphics, but i do disagree with a few people saying things along the lines of "They could be 2-d stick figures and if the gameplay is good, then i'm happy" to which i can say i'm not in entire agreement.
An example that comes to mind is the Metal gear series. The first one i played was the 3-d one for Playstation, "metal gear solid", and i thought it was amazing (back when i was probably too young to realise how much crap was in the storyline). Later on, i played the original "metal gear" for some older platforms, and they were absolutely awful in my opinion.

Point i am trying to get across is, that sometimes graphics can make the gameplay. The metal gear sucked because it was 2D, i couldn't tell how "in-line" i was with the peoples visions. whilst with the 3D, it made the gameplay a lot more fun.
But as i said, this is only really one case, and the jump between 3D and 2D is a pretty large jump. Graphics-wise, i think the games can stop as far as Resident evil 4 (even on GC) graphics. Because i felt quite sick watching Sweaty-muscles-Chris bop around... it just...glistened... lol, i'm joking of course, but i remember thinking "Graphics aren't going to get much better than this!"... how wrong i was.

(what i found truly amazing about Resi 4 was exploring the terrain with the infinite launcher, which i could do as it didn't affect your accuracy. I was suprised to find that actually, you could hit anything that looked solid with a rocket, no matter how far away it was and there wasn't an "invisible wall" in the sky or anything, it just didn't explode. Okay, so thats probably pretty basic stuff even for back then, but i thought it was good!)
 

Katana314

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GRAPHICS are not required, but good visuals ARE. And they can be achieved without supreme graphics, though they aren't always. For example, a game attempting to depict very realistic characters with low graphics is simply not going to succeed. However, if despite your low poly count you have some very visually distinctive and solid-color characters, it can still work.

Trying to say graphics just DON'T matter is just being ignorant. Even Braid, a game filled with impossibly amazing game mechanics, would not have been nearly as interesting if it had looked at all like those 'concept levels' he has on the development blog (which basically looked like a half-assed GameMaker and MS Paint product) Even though it was a 2D game, they spent enormous amounts of time getting the amounts of shaders and particle cloud effects right (technically it uses a 3D renderer, even if all the graphics are 2D)
 

Vern

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Sep 19, 2008
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Mr Ink 5000 said:
Vern said:
. I do appreciate the fact that I started playing games in the 8 bit era, so I can look past graphics. Hell, even SNES, N64, and PS1 games can still look good to me. In fact, even Gargoyle's Quest II still looks good to me.
I was expecting a "kids don't know how lucky they are" from you then, ha ha.
Well I don't think kids are lucky because they grew up with more graphically advanced games. And I'm sure I'll be viewed as a curmudgeon in the years to come, but I'm glad I can appreciate games for their gameplay, and the graphics they achieved at their time with the software available. I've had more fun with 2D games than any 3D game.
 

Altorin

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May 16, 2008
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this debate causes the most pretentious remarks to surface.

Bottom line, Video games are a visual medium, graphics aren't at war with gameplay, they should compliment eachother. You couldn't have a Mass Effect 2 with Atari 2600 graphics.. it's just infeasible. If you pay 60 dollars for something, there's nothing wrong with expecting it to be a quality product. Good graphics won't save a horrible game, and terrific gameplay won't save a current gen game if it has graphics that are more then a generation old (like, If a 360 game came out with N64 graphics).
 
Dec 16, 2009
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Vern said:
Mr Ink 5000 said:
Vern said:
. I do appreciate the fact that I started playing games in the 8 bit era, so I can look past graphics. Hell, even SNES, N64, and PS1 games can still look good to me. In fact, even Gargoyle's Quest II still looks good to me.
I was expecting a "kids don't know how lucky they are" from you then, ha ha.
Well I don't think kids are lucky because they grew up with more graphically advanced games. And I'm sure I'll be viewed as a curmudgeon in the years to come, but I'm glad I can appreciate games for their gameplay, and the graphics they achieved at their time with the software available. I've had more fun with 2D games than any 3D game.
That reminds me, I'm actually looking forward to Sonic 4 which is in 2D
I wonder how many young gamers wont give it a chance simply for the 2D reason
 

Sora_Tsubasa

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Nov 19, 2009
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Great graphics are not required for a game to be good, some might say graphins are not even required (take text based adventures like Zork), they are just an enhancement. as an example, I have just bought FFVII and VIII on PSN. Both of these games came out on PS1 a lont time ago, and even though the graphics wouldn't be rated highly nowadays, they still don't effect any of the gameplay, and they are both excellent games.
 

Lotet

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Aug 28, 2009
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as long as I can read the scribblings on the walls and stuff then that's all the graphics I need
 

CriticalGriffin

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Jan 18, 2010
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I failed to see the point for this topic, since the answer is just plain obvious and has already been stated billion times.