Great art isn't

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Hitman Dread

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Games are currently in a stage of self-verification, attempting to force everyone to accept the medium as "art." The idea as games as art is nothing new, and harks back to the founding statements of Electronic Arts, "Can a computer make you cry?" Years later, Electronic Arts's Head of Talent Acquisition, Matthew Jeffery, was so confident that this goal was well beyond reach that during a speech at Swansea International Animation Festival he made several statements as direct jabs pointed at the film industry. The truth is however, the current state of gaming is far from the artistic realm than many of fellow modern mediums, suffering primarily from their incessant need to prove themselves as art.


Many of the games that gamers point to as "works of art" were made with that purpose in mind .The developers of these games set out to make a game that would be defined as "art," and consequentially, the player is left acutely aware during the entire process. When the goal you set out is to make games are, this intent will bleed through your work, devaluing any efforts and strides you may have actually made. The moment your audience stops and thinks "This is art" you have completely destroyed immersion and atmosphere. Though some may applaud your game for this very intent, they are only applauding because they agree with the intent, like a conservative clinging to Atlas Shrugged, gaining pleasure not out of the work but the ideas behind the work.


Great art isn?t great art, it happens upon it. The greatest works of art our beloved for their content, not for attempting to be superior to the works around them. The works of Mozart existed for their own various reasons, as the artist saw fit, and none of them to prove to others how artistically valid operas sung in German are, nor did Verdi write Tosca to validate the romantic period as an art form. Even in a medium?s infancy, such as early film, the works that left a continual impact were works that happened onto art through the process. Citizen Kane had not set out to prove that films were an artistic medium of the future, he had a story, an idea, a premise he was itching to tell, and the techniques unique to his medium to do it. Great art is achieved only in the end, not in the piece?s origin. Starting with the intent to be validated art results in shallow pieces that only serve as minor stepping stones towards a greater future.


However, despite this general flaw that exist through a the general game development world, there are some grand exceptions; games, designers, and development teams that are creating pieces that will likely stand the test of time as beautiful works of their craft, as advancements in their fields, and as great works of art. Among these great achievers is Valve, a company who is rarely mentioned when examples are being sent for games as art. Both Half-Life and Portal are incredible works that excel in their craft and conveying a message through their mediums. Valve has succeeded in creating a game that has grabbed their audience so well that they haven?t even stopped to consider that the game they were playing might be considered a work of art - because there is no need to consider. Valve is comparable to the likes of The God Father series, The Cohen Brothers, and countless others in various fields in that they craft works that have proven to not only resonate with a large audience in a grand way, but can be valued as high as anything else in their field.


My dear, beautiful darling.
My child that I admire.
To my dear, farewell!
My dear girl, why don't you stay away, yes away from science?
My dear, dear girl.
To my lovely.
To my dear.
To my dear.
To my Child.
My dear, dear to me!
- Translated final words of Portal 2
 

Gigatoast

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AH JESUS! There are more walls in this thread then any given Gears of War set piece. Really more of an essay then a forum topic, but it's a damn good essay.

(Someone been watching Extra Credits perhaps, I know I get this way after watching a few episodes.)
 

Gxas

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I read that whole thing and it turned out to be another "Valve is the greatest thing to grace this earth ever." Very disappointed, as I don't consider any Valve game to be anything more than average at best. I thought there would be more to this.

Not trying to offend or anything, but I like to enjoy the games that I play. I greatly enjoyed Shadow of the Colossus and not once throughout my entire time playing did I think, "Wow, this is art!" It was only afterward that I even considered it to be, and even then, I didn't much think about it. Name a Valve game. That your choice? Yeah, played it, didn't enjoy it. I've tried every single one of their games and the only one to even slightly wow me was Portal.

You're implying that most, if not all, games that are constantly brought up as examples of art were made for that specific purpose, when, in fact, they were created to be enjoyed by their audiences. Which, if you think about it, is what every piece of art is created for, isn't it. All games are art in this case. All movies are art. All television shows, books, pictures, photos, plays, performances, etc. are art.

I guess what I'm trying to say is just because something doesn't gain recognition for being art, doesn't mean it absolutely isn't.

One more word before I go: subjective.
 

La Barata

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Gxas said:
I read that whole thing and it turned out to be another "Valve is the greatest thing to grace this earth ever." Very disappointed, as I don't consider any Valve game to be anything more than average at best. I thought there would be more to this.

Not trying to offend or anything, but I like to enjoy the games that I play. I greatly enjoyed Shadow of the Colossus and not once throughout my entire time playing did I think, "Wow, this is art!" It was only afterward that I even considered it to be, and even then, I didn't much think about it. Name a Valve game. That your choice? Yeah, played it, didn't enjoy it. I've tried every single one of their games and the only one to even slightly wow me was Portal.

You're implying that most, if not all, games that are constantly brought up as examples of art were made for that specific purpose, when, in fact, they were created to be enjoyed by their audiences. Which, if you think about it, is what every piece of art is created for, isn't it. All games are art in this case. All movies are art. All television shows, books, pictures, photos, plays, performances, etc. are art.

I guess what I'm trying to say is just because something doesn't gain recognition for being art, doesn't mean it absolutely isn't.

One more word before I go: subjective.
That's the trick, though, isn't it? With something like SOTC, you don't think about that sort of thing. You're too busy thinking about the game. Only afterwards do you start to contemplate exactly what you just played, eh?
 

Gxas

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La Barata said:
That's the trick, though, isn't it? With something like SOTC, you don't think about that sort of thing. You're too busy thinking about the game. Only afterwards do you start to contemplate exactly what you just played, eh?
However, it is always brought up as an example of games as art. The OP said that it and others like it were made with the intention of proving games can be art, while Valve games weren't. Which is wrong, because all games were created to be art. Every single goddamn one.
 

V8 Ninja

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Dear god, another "Games as Art" topic...I think I'm going to be physically sick from all of this talk. Can the internet take a few years off from these inane discussions? I'm absolutely sick of them.
 

La Barata

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Gxas said:
La Barata said:
That's the trick, though, isn't it? With something like SOTC, you don't think about that sort of thing. You're too busy thinking about the game. Only afterwards do you start to contemplate exactly what you just played, eh?
However, it is always brought up as an example of games as art. The OP said that it and others like it were made with the intention of proving games can be art, while Valve games weren't. Which is wrong, because all games were created to be art. Every single goddamn one.
I see what you're getting at, and I wasn't really talking about what OP said at that point. All I'm saying is that the thing with games being art is that you don't think about it at the time. That's the strength of them. You become so involved with them that you don't stop to consider the "art" factor. All you know is that you're doing what needs to be done. You're saving the woman you love, you're saving your home, you're saving the WORLD. It's only afterwards, when you pause to take a breath, that you realize the true power in what you just played.
 

Gxas

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La Barata said:
Gxas said:
La Barata said:
That's the trick, though, isn't it? With something like SOTC, you don't think about that sort of thing. You're too busy thinking about the game. Only afterwards do you start to contemplate exactly what you just played, eh?
However, it is always brought up as an example of games as art. The OP said that it and others like it were made with the intention of proving games can be art, while Valve games weren't. Which is wrong, because all games were created to be art. Every single goddamn one.
I see what you're getting at, and I wasn't really talking about what OP said at that point. All I'm saying is that the thing with games being art is that you don't think about it at the time. That's the strength of them. You become so involved with them that you don't stop to consider the "art" factor. All you know is that you're doing what needs to be done. You're saving the woman you love, you're saving your home, you're saving the WORLD. It's only afterwards, when you pause to take a breath, that you realize the true power in what you just played.
Psssh! Screw the princesses! Its all about raising pinatas in a garden!!
 

La Barata

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Gxas said:
La Barata said:
Gxas said:
La Barata said:
That's the trick, though, isn't it? With something like SOTC, you don't think about that sort of thing. You're too busy thinking about the game. Only afterwards do you start to contemplate exactly what you just played, eh?
However, it is always brought up as an example of games as art. The OP said that it and others like it were made with the intention of proving games can be art, while Valve games weren't. Which is wrong, because all games were created to be art. Every single goddamn one.
I see what you're getting at, and I wasn't really talking about what OP said at that point. All I'm saying is that the thing with games being art is that you don't think about it at the time. That's the strength of them. You become so involved with them that you don't stop to consider the "art" factor. All you know is that you're doing what needs to be done. You're saving the woman you love, you're saving your home, you're saving the WORLD. It's only afterwards, when you pause to take a breath, that you realize the true power in what you just played.
Psssh! Screw the princesses! Its all about raising pinatas in a garden!!
Exactly what I plan to do before I make my pinata garden ;)
 

Gxas

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stoprequesting said:
P.S., what's with all the Valve hate? People praise them like a broken record but that's because they, you know, make good games.
I'll say it again: subjective.

I absolutely had no fun with any Valve games. They're praised to the heavens for making amazing, fun games, yet I've never had fun with them.

In my mind, a good game is fun first. This was not the case with Valve for me.

Thats whats with all the Valve hate.
 

Sudenak

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It bugs me that you praise Valve as great art ._. They're packaged well, and sold well, but they don't resonate with me past that.

In the end, all people have their own opinions on what makes something art. You had me until you picked out one that is art to you. Remove your own bias, or else it just makes people feel off-put.

Personally, I find a game like Wind Waker to be more art-like. But that's just my own opinion, doesn't really point to anything besides me liking it :3

It's like someone describing why books are art, and then they use Twilight as an example of why they are art. Yes, lots of people will agree with you. Lots of people. But not everyone will, and some people will greatly disagree with you. So just trim out the fat of bias and you're good to go.
 

Hitman Dread

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Gxas said:
I read that whole thing and it turned out to be another "Valve is the greatest thing to grace this earth ever." Very disappointed, as I don't consider any Valve game to be anything more than average at best. I thought there would be more to this.
That's not what I'm saying at all, I only used Valve as a single example because of my recent interaction with Portal 2. Valve was simply an example, there are many others. You can also have a different opinion on Valve as me, we can also sit here all day and talk about whether or not The Godfather are truly great artistically merited films. Valve is not the point, just an example.

Not trying to offend or anything, but I like to enjoy the games that I play.
Yes exactly! You agree! Perhaps my point wasn't clear, due to a lack of a conclusion, but using Valve as an example was the intention, because Portal has always been praised as a funny game, and a strong inventive puzzle, but compare that to any of the games in the "Video games are art" TED Talk and you'll see the artistic merits of the game are never discussed, when it exceeds on a fundamental level very well.


All games are art in this case. All movies are art. All television shows, books, pictures, photos, plays, performances, etc. are art.
I also agree with this vague definition of art itself, and I never refer to these games as not being art but not being great or "high-art."


I guess what I'm trying to say is just because something doesn't gain recognition for being art, doesn't mean it absolutely isn't.
That's not what I'm saying though, I think I should have continued this with Braid, because Braid is both well praised, well analyzed, and wasn't designed with the idea of making art, but with a concept the developer wanted to convey.

What I'm referring to is self proclaimed "arthouse developers" who are going to be damned sure that what they make is art and everyone knows it.
 

uc.asc

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It's okay not to like valve games -- very few countries have laws against people with bad taste, so you'll be fine ^^

But yeah, might want to check the last paragraph. It might work better if you included several games from several genres and makers. I'm also a little leery about comparing games to cinema; movies provide a short, highly focused experience which is completely controlled by the maker, which is very hard to compare to an interactive medium in any meaningful way.
 

Gxas

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Hitman Dread said:
Alright, I get you. I suppose that you ending with holy praise of Valve really just made me see it as, "Valve is god, other games are not. Deal with it."

I see your point now. I agree.