I don't know about all this moralising and hand wringing; sometimes a cigar is just a sick jump off a ramp, you know what I'm saying?
Hmmm, of course it's hard to disagree there and I figure that there must be at least some amongst Rockstar who'd like to experiment with designing a new city again rather than being confined to expanding on previous constructions. That said, I bet some higher-ups would prefer they save on resources and the time it would take to map out such expansive exterior [and interior] locations.Robert Rath said:Actually I really wish GTA would drop its obsession with the US and set its next game in Shanghai, Mumbai, Panama City, Dubai... pretty much anywhere but New York or LA again.
The_Scrivener said:I loathe that people are trying to give GTA a message, as if this game is any different than the rest of the series which, at best, makes some off the cuff social statement once every twelve hours of hooker bludgeoning.
If you like the game, fine. But don't disguise it as some deep social commentary. It isn't. It's a sandbox shock genre cash cow. It's butt fucking and domestic terrorism. It's designed to get a rise out of people. It isn't a picket sign. It isn't deep. Cloud using trains as a metaphor for pre-destined slum life in FF7 is a statement. Spec Ops: the Line's hint load screens turning from gameplay tips to self-reflection of horrific deeds is a statement. James running from sexualized monstrosities in Silent Hill 2 is a statement.
GTA's statement is and always has been that it's fun to do fucked up things and piss off parents. Stop treating it like it's the Ulysses of gaming.
This is pretty much my thoughts when it comes to GTA V. You can write away all the horrible ethical decisions the protagonists make in the game as being deliberately alienating so as to emphasise exactly how morally reprehensible those decisions are, but I can guarantee you the typical player isn't going to care in the slightest.Akichi Daikashima said:About that whole "police aren't that corrupt" thing, you should visit Eastern Europe sometime.Robert Rath said:GTA's Morality Is More Complex Than You Realize
You?d think that the GTA series throws morality and ethics out the window entirely, but you?d be wrong.
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Because they are and the levels of corruption within government and its branches are appalling.
Other than that, interesting article, but in order to assume that GTA is some massive statement on the modern age is a bit strange, considering that the series only started taking this turn towards realism after Vice City, and has lost its wackiness, which makes me sad.
I want to play GTA to have fun and unwind as I always have, if I want to feel bad about myself or the world I live in, I will play Spec Ops: The Line.
The_Scrivener said:I loathe that people are trying to give GTA a message, as if this game is any different than the rest of the series which, at best, makes some off the cuff social statement once every twelve hours of hooker bludgeoning.
If you like the game, fine. But don't disguise it as some deep social commentary. It isn't. It's a sandbox shock genre cash cow. It's butt fucking and domestic terrorism. It's designed to get a rise out of people. It isn't a picket sign. It isn't deep. Cloud using trains as a metaphor for pre-destined slum life in FF7 is a statement. Spec Ops: the Line's hint load screens turning from gameplay tips to self-reflection of horrific deeds is a statement. James running from sexualized monstrosities in Silent Hill 2 is a statement.
GTA's statement is and always has been that it's fun to do fucked up things and piss off parents. Stop treating it like it's the Ulysses of gaming.
Maybe, but consumer interpretations are irrelevant when discussing author/artist intentions. The series since GTA III has always been about social criticism, parody, irony, and morality.Extragorey said:Because this is GTA, and the game doesn't get millions of automatic pre-orders for presenting a complex moral statement; it sells because people like to have fun and unwind by engaging in exactly those activities the game supposedly presents as morally reprehensible.
See I rather like the idea of hating my character its unique. tv did that for awhile always making sure the main character never did anything the viewer disagreed with but with shows like breaking bad thats changing. I think its time games did that tooTiberiusEsuriens said:That's the best summary of this whole situation I've found yet. Rockstar games are pretty great and offer tons of freedom to do whatever you like and make your own path, but this time around, especially with Trevor, they've forced people into a situation where people dislike their own character so much some would even want to stop playing. It all depends on an individual's ability to block out or separate themselves during those times to determine whether they're willing to keep pushing.Robert Rath said:Hypocritical as it may be, audiences will generally allow criminal protagonists to do reprehensible things provided they're motivated by a larger idea like redemption, justice, or the American Dream. We're more comfortable with people who kill for their values than those who kill for greed. Rockstar, it seems, has decided to push this envelope in GTA V. Only time will tell if it pays off, or if they've made a vast misjudgment and made their characters unlikable.
Rockstar has stated in the past and even recent history that they see their games going global. I think so far what has limited it is their comfort and familiarity with US cities and habits. The games traditionally have focused not just on the US cities, but the "American Dream." GTAV moves away from that a little, so I can easily see them using another, or multiple countries in the future.Robert Rath said:Funny you mention that. Last year I wrote an article where I compared GTA to a Hungary's most famous bank robber and suggested that the series would actually make more sense if it were set in Eastern Europe: http://www.escapistmagazine.com/articles/view/columns/criticalintel/10077-Ordinary-Players-Extraordinary-CharactersAkichi Daikashima said:About that whole "police aren't that corrupt" thing, you should visit Eastern Europe sometime.
Because they are and the levels of corruption within government and its branches are appalling.
Actually I really wish GTA would drop its obsession with the US and set its next game in Shanghai, Mumbai, Panama City, Dubai... pretty much anywhere but New York or LA again.
ancylostomiasis said:Apart from GTA VI having a take on immigration and the American dream, the others in the series ARE textbook moral nihilism.
And since when did we call that a morality?
The article reminds me of those Tarantino movies, if you like it, fine, to each his own. But if you argue there are moral messages and serious debates of social problems in them? Sorry, can't agree.
I would've chose DEHR.Akichi Daikashima said:I want to play GTA to have fun and unwind as I always have, if I want to feel bad about myself or the world I live in, I will play Spec Ops: The Line.
Even Mirror's Edge hints more social criticism.
It's definitely a cool way to do story telling, but my issue with it is about exposure time. Breaking Bad is the current successful model of how to make you love hating the main characters. I can watch one or two episodes and feel really involved but then I need a break. As a TV show this is essentially encouraged; those 45 minute chunks of time are perfect bite sized bits. Anyone who's ever played a game, sandbox style in particular, knows that 'break time' is pretty much non-existent. The games are designed to keep us occupied for hours and hours, never stopping, with all activities snowballing into others.rbstewart7263 said:See I rather like the idea of hating my character its unique. tv did that for awhile always making sure the main character never did anything the viewer disagreed with but with shows like breaking bad thats changing. I think its time games did that too
The American Dream itself is a morality. As 50 cent puts it, "Get rich or die trying". Right is whatever serves the interests of the dream and wrong is whatever opposes it. Decent people think it's a terrible morality and don't agree with it, but that's doesn't make it a matter of moral nihilism.Jim_Callahan said:I'm confused. I assume you're arguing that OP is wrong and that the morality isn't any more complex than straight-up moral nihilism? Or are you trying to agree with him that there's something deeper and just picked literally the worst movie analogy possible to support the assertion?briankoontz said:GTA protagonists are no worse people than the characters in Reservoir Dogs, unless made to be so by the player.