TechNoFear said:
cerebus23 said:
100,000 prescription drug deaths yea guns are a crisis in this nation, keep pounding that whole epidemic thing till people believe it,
Sylveria said:
Slips and falls account for over 20,000 fatalities per year in North America. 500,000+ injuries from slip and falls. 500% more than injures from being shot
Just walking around is more of a risk to your health and safety than firearms.
And of course, no link is found, but they're gonna keep researching until they find one, no matter how thin that link is.
These are both 'false equivalence' logical fallacies.
cerebus23 ignored the beneficial use of prescription drugs, which are orders of magnitude greater than the harm caused. (ie a 'cost / benefit' analysis or CBA)
This CBA is not true with firearms. [before you quote Kleck do some research into his methods]
Sylveria tries to equate a basic human function to a item that is mostly used for recreation, is not required for society to function and is used to inflict pain and death on OTHERS.
How many people are murdered each year where the murder weapon was the victim walking, tripping or falling (and not being 'pushed')?
If surfboards where used as weapons to murder ~10,000 people, and surfboards where used as weapons to seriously injure another ~70,000 and surfboards where used by 20,000 people to commit suicide, then the US would legislate against surfboards ().
The difference is that firearms are 'protected' by a vague clause in the US Constitution, just as slavery once was before we realised how repugnant it was.
that clause is not vague by any stretch of the imagination, look at the times the people that wrote the clause lived in, they just got out from under an oppressive government that tried to take way their firearms by law and by force, we fought a war over that if you recall, saying the founders intent in a is vague when they say congress shall make no laws that abridge that right in any way shape or form is being purposely obtouse, we can argue the well regulated bit till the cows come home the fact of the matter is we have plenty of laws on the books that ban real assault weapons and noone not the nra noone is calling for that to be lifted. we have laws the prevent mentally unstable and felons from getting guns, we have laws that keep felons from getting guns.
so you can retcon the constitution any way you like but do not try to pretend the founders intent is vague. it is pretty well common sense how the founders intended most things, look at the men look at the times they lived in.
did you know that they wanted to make the preamble life liberty and the protection of property? you know why they left property out? because the south considered slaves property and if the bill of rights or constitution specifically said property that would give legal protection to slavery.
slavery was a concern for our nation from nearly day one, but it was hard to just get out from a war with britian and then turn around and immediately gone to war over slavery the nation would have utterly collapsed before it got started.
you surfboard argument is silly because by the fbis own statistics baseball bats and knives lead guns in random violent crime, where is the outcry to ban baseball bats because people like to hit other people with them? where is the outcry to ban fast foods and junk foods because of the obesity epidemic in this nation? run a CBA on that.
how about we talk about how well our war on booze and war on drugs have gone historically, one we gave up and the other we been fighting the same war for decades with ever increasing costs to the nation in law enforcement legal and jail costs, now you want to ban guns it take it?
excluding the intent of the founders entirely how would you get guns off the streets?
would you raid everyones home to search for guns? would you close down interstate commerce and treat each and every border like the mexican border? how would you close the robust drug channels into this nation? those same channels that are rife with weapons due to our war on drugs and all the money involved in it. jow would you stop that? you do not think drug cartels would be all to happy to sell real ak47s tac9s and all sorts of hardware on our streets happily? do you think they will screen people for mental stability? do you think they will care at all when every criminal is armed to the teeth and people are dying. would you spend the several trillion dollars to secure our 1000s of miles of coasts and borders?
and why is this even an issue really? because some psychopath created an autrocity? so we change the whole society on the chance that some crazy person might do something crazy? someone that gasp broke the law numerous ways because he was insane? wanted to go out in a blaze of glory?
if anything i think it should speak to the sanity of advertising schools as gun free zones, i cannot recall being allowed to carry a gun to school when i was a kid, it was kinda common sense if you were you know sane, there might have even been rules about it for all i know but we did not need signs all over the school declaring that noone may carry.
maybe we should discuss school administrators and local law enforcement working together on a voluntary basis to take gun safety training and target shooting and allow administrators and teachers to possibly carry so we do not have a school full of sitting ducks for any random psycho that chooses to break the law and kill people.
at lest that would be something feasable than the next war on we want to crusade or the next bunch of rights you want to sign away hoping the government or police will protect you from all the scary things out there. and infinately less expensive then taking guns off the streets and all the things and rights you would have to just toss out to make a gun ban, drug ban actually work.
but feel free to run a CBA on getting firearms out of our nation realistically. i am sure the cost would be in the 10s of trillions, we can just pile that onto our health care and 16 trillion in debt while we are at it, yes more government is what we need yes sir.
