Gundam 00 Dub?

[ZapperX]

So, Louise actually plays a role in season 2?

And, I do agree with some of your points. Ali is crazy with no development. Anytime Setsuna SEEMS close to changing and developing, he does something completely... emotionless, and that ruins it.

BUT...

I never watched SEED Destiny, having disliked the first SEED so much. And I never watched Gundam Wing (I prefered the original and Zeta, and it never hooked me) so I wouldn't know about that. But from what you say, it does sound like most problems were in the second season.

And A-Laws? They pretty much = Titans from Zeta.

 

[John Funk]

Gundam 00 was actually pretty awesome up until the last quarter where it imploded. The show's crucial flaw was that it honestly tried to do too much. It had a huge cast, so many plotlines, and couldn't resolve any of them satisfactorily. Even so, Setsuna was a pretty good lead, the action was awesome, and the animation was gorgeous.

(Re: SEED and Destiny - I liked SEED after it came into its own circa the first battle of Orb and stopped ripping off 0079. Hell, Destiny started out awesome. It just went down the tubes once the Freedom showed up again. Even then, it was still passable up until Shinn beat Kira, and Kira returned)

The first 3/4 of 00 are actually some of my favorite Gundam. Now, it's no 0080, of course...

Also, uh...

BUT, what the whiners of Seed miss is that 00 is basically Gundam Wing WITH Gundam Seed. A bunch of adolscent boys flying around screaming that "I AM GUNDAM". No, Gundam 00 was not a good show. Heck, I'd watch G Gundam above Gundam 00 without doubt.

What? Did you actually watch 00? The only 'adolescent' was Setsuna in the first season - in S2, he was the youngest at 21, which is incredibly old for Gundam. (Hey what's that? Bright Noah is 19? Ramba Ral is like 35?) The only similarities between Wing/SEED and 00 are superficial at best.

Unless you're the type who saw Setsuna and was all "OMG HEERO CLONE," I don't really get how you can think this.

 

[EnglishMuffin]

If its not wing zero or ms 08 I don't care.

 

[ZapperX]

Like I said, Idk about the second season, as I'm following the dub. I AM enjying the series as of now, but I'll see where it goes.

 

[John Funk]

Hell, Destiny started out awesome. It just went down the tubes once the Freedom showed up again. Even then, it was still passable up until Shinn beat Kira, and Kira returned)

What? Did you actually watch 00? The only 'adolescent' was Setsuna in the first season - in S2, he was the youngest at 21, which is incredibly old for Gundam. (Hey what's that? Bright Noah is 19? Ramba Ral is like 35?) The only similarities between Wing/SEED and 00 are superficial at best.

Unless you're the type who saw Setsuna and was all "OMG HEERO CLONE," I don't really get how you can think this.

I agree on the part you said of Seed Destiny.

And yes, I do view Setsuna as a Heero-clone (although lesser version) so I'm guilty as charged there. Yes, during the whole season 1, Setsuna was the age of 16, during season 2 he was 21. I stand by with my saying that he is nothing but a kid.

And really, I wish everyone would stop saying "Did you even watch 00?" because YES. Yes I did, I painfully watched all 50 episodes of it and there is only one part in the whole show that I liked, which was when they all was shooting at the orbital elevator that was purging it's plates. It's very insulting ;(

Nothing but a kid? At 16 he's the same age as Amuro and Kira, and older than all five of the Wing boys.

Setsuna is hardly a Heero clone. Heero was emotionless, Setsuna was stoic. He had a hell of a lot more emotion under the surface than Heero ever did, it just took a lot to bring it to the forefront (usually relating to one Saachez, Ali al). Heero was almost literally a robot who existed only to follow his mission (and didn't really get much emotional development until the thing with the little girl and her dog in Endless Waltz, but that was tacked on), whereas Setsuna's entire goal was to become someone who would save people the way he'd been saved.

I found Setsuna to be a much more likable character than Heero, and actually thought he developed pretty well over the course of the series. If they hadn't wasted so much time bringing in an entirely different cast in Season 2 and just focused on continuing the stories of the ones they HAD, 00 would be easily my favorite of the AUs. As it stands, it's one of my favorites up until like Episode 14ish, when it became clear that they were trying to do too much in a short amount of time.

And no offense, but the whole "zomg Setsuna is teh Heero clone, 00 is rippan off Wing" ideal tends to come from people who only watched the beginning of 00, since that's when the comparisons were the strongest. So I think the question was perfectly valid Still, didn't mean to offend.

 

[ZapperX]

I found Setsuna to be a much more likable character than Heero, and actually thought he developed pretty well over the course of the series. If they hadn't wasted so much time bringing in an entirely different cast in Season 2 and just focused on continuing the stories of the ones they HAD, 00 would be easily my favorite of the AUs. As it stands, it's one of my favorites up until like Episode 14ish, when it became clear that they were trying to do too much in a short amount of time.

IMO, Setsuna did have some emotion (as really shown in the EP 23-24 breakdown), but I never really saw him develop in S1. He seemed to be the same the whole time, and the only big change I saw was the letter to Marina. Heero, by what I know, is made of stone.

 

[John Funk]

I prefer Heero over Setsuna - just because Heero is emotionless and have the vocalbulary of an apple.

Yes, he is the same age as the majority of all other Gundam characters -BUT HERE'S THE THING-
Amuro: In one episode, he lies in the bed and refuses to go out in the Gundam.
Kira: Cries his heart out every second episode.

Nontaken. But I did watch the entire series and never changed my oppinion: Setsuna is a Heero clone, except he was given a bit more of a personallity and emotion compared to Heero, BUT a Heero-clone never the less.

Emotionless with the vocabulary of an apple is a good thing, now?

I'm not sure what your point is re: Amuro and Kira, to be honest. That they openly displayed emotion? You mean like how Setsuna does every time he encounters Ali, or when he breaks down near the end of the Azadistan arc when he couldn't save the kids?

He's nothing like Heero at all, though. Heero was brought up and trained to be a super soldier to pilot a Gundam; he exists only to complete his mission (until they gave him an emotional reason in Endless Waltz). Setsuna was tricked as a kid into joining a jihad, was abandoned to die, and fell into CB for reasons I won't mention here since ZapperX hasn't seen Season 2. He exists to try and prevent what happened to him from happening to others, and his motivation is to save people. He has his own ideal of what a "Gundam" is - not just the robot, but what it represents.

That's a completely different motivation from Heero. Their only similarity is that they're relatively stoic characters.

IMO, Setsuna did have some emotion (as really shown in the EP 23-24 breakdown), but I never really saw him develop in S1. He seemed to be the same the whole time, and the only big change I saw was the letter to Marina. Heero, by what I know, is made of stone.

His development is more obvious in the leap from S1 to S2, him growing into a leadership role, for example. In S1, his changing was a bit more subtle, but we saw it in things like his assault on the Thrones. They might have been Celestial Being, but they were the antithesis of what he had come to believe Gundams should have been.

 

[chronobreak]

Did that lady have a lightsabre?

EDIT: Nevermind, I get it.

 

[John Funk]

Nevermind, I was looking away from the point that Amuro & Kira was just drawn into the war while Setsuna & Heero was trained for it.

Just didn't like it at all because all I saw was: "This is Gundam Wing with the moral of Gundam Seed".

Heero was trained from a very young age; his purpose was to be a supersoldier. Setsuna was a child soldier, but that was something completely different.

The only similarity to Gundam Wing was that it was a paramilitary group with Gundams, all other comparisons really kind of fall short there. And the moral of Gundam SEED? ...what moral would that be? That War Is Bad, M'Kay? That's like... every Gundam series SEED's main plot point was the fantastic and genocidal racism between the Naturals and Coordinators, and how hatred and war only breeds more hatred and war. That wasn't really in 00 at all.

Of course, if you're thinking of another message/moral that I'm missing, feel free to correct.