Guns at Townhall Meetings

[bickster]

It's America, we can. Just because you have a gun does not mean you are going to shoot someone.

Yup your 100% right and I wish that more people would listen since their is an average of 49,410 shooting deaths a year in American ... second only to Columbia.

 

[Oolinthu]

They are pissed off over this administrations policies and since they have the right to bear arms they will use it to show they mean business since the representatives are not listening to the people.

I laugh whenever people bash the protesters trying to label them as crazy, yet they don't give in, the keep at it. Makes me proud to know my country still has some hope. Get em boys, I'm right behind ya.

Oh aren't you just precious. Haven't you already been beaten to a pulp on this topic before?

 

[vonne]

from the US constition...

"A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed."

Now, can someone tell me what regulated militia these people belong to, what security threats to a free state are happening at these town meetings, and how is the debate on health care reform (not health care reform itself - seperate issue) can be considered a security threat?

Your allowed to have a gun on you if you have a permit. And I'm sure your allowed to carry one in public, but I believe you need a permit. As long as it doesn't get everyone panicked, they should be allowed. And from what I saw, there wasn't any panic, therefor, just let them continue.

i understand the permit issue. what i dont understand is how this amendment has become so misunderstood, misused, and misinterpreted.

Your basically saying that, we shouldn't have guns at all, until we need a militia? That's what I got from what you said.

i didnt say that at all - actually i havent voiced an opinion on firearms at all. i merely quoted the amendment from the US constitution refering to the right to bear arms and asked how taking guns to a townhall meeting meets any of the conditions laid out within this constitution.

you will note it is the framers of the constitution that placed the conditions of this right, not me or any one else with a pro or anti firearm opnion or agenda.

 

[McNinja]

It's America, we can. Just because you have a gun does not mean you are going to shoot someone.

I concur. And no it isn't against the law to carry a loaded gun... where did you hear that? I'm 18 and I could legally carry around a loaded rifle in my state. Now, some people would be freaked out, and the cops would probably talk to me, but it it isn't illegal.

 

[Scolar Visari]

from the US constition...

"A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed."

Now, can someone tell me what regulated militia these people belong to, what security threats to a free state are happening at these town meetings, and how is the debate on health care reform (not health care reform itself - seperate issue) can be considered a security threat?

Your allowed to have a gun on you if you have a permit. And I'm sure your allowed to carry one in public, but I believe you need a permit. As long as it doesn't get everyone panicked, they should be allowed. And from what I saw, there wasn't any panic, therefor, just let them continue.

i understand the permit issue. what i dont understand is how this amendment has become so misunderstood, misused, and misinterpreted.

Your basically saying that, we shouldn't have guns at all, until we need a militia? That's what I got from what you said.

i didnt say that at all - actually i havent voiced an opinion on firearms at all. i merely quoted the amendment from the US constitution refering to the right to bear arms and asked how taking guns to a townhall meeting meets any of the conditions laid out within this constitution.

you will note it is the framers of the constitution that placed the conditions of this right, not me or any one else with a pro or anti firearm opnion or agenda.

Militia Act of 1903, states that all able bodied men of at least 17 and under 45 years of age are a "Reserved Militia" or "Unorganized Militia".

 

[fix-the-spade]

If he's sure that it's unloaded, nothing in the barrel, I don't see a huge problem.

There in lies the rub. Unless the breach is open and you can see in, how do you know the weapon isn't chambered?

I've been to plenty of firing ranges (yes, they do exist in the UK) and have seen plenty of incidents that go along the lines of:
"No of course the gun isn't loaded, look I'll show you," (points weapon down range) BANG! ,"...Ah..."

As the saying goes, the most dangerous nut is the one at the controls.

 

[tyrolean]

Apparently that has been a big problem in the recent past, and where most accidental gun deaths come from. I'm not sure who would be even teaching such an unsafe method (hunter's safety courses?)

snip

I've got to agree with this, hauling guns around is never a way to calm a situation just exasperate it. The right to bear arms is in place for defence not to threaten

That's a fair point.

But I was thinking about accidental discharge more than anything. The numbers say that if an American's going to shoot you, they'll probably do it entirely by accident rather than in defence or criminally.



There's no predicting accidental knocks, bad maintanence, design flaws, poor discipline or cheap ammunition.

I've learned recently from my instructor that it's actually what's being taught as "gun safety" is getting ppl killed.

If say, a hunter is out in the woods and has his gun loaded but no round chambered, his mindset is that the gun is unloaded and "safe". If he sees a deer and chambers a cartridge but doesn't shoot, he's likely to forget that there's still a chambered bullet in there when it comes time to clean the gun....presto! Accidental discharge. NRA instructors are starting to teach that a gun is Always loaded and Always treat any gun as though it is loaded

Since when haven't they been teaching that?

I've never met someone (especially with expirience as an instructor) who didn't preach that like it was the word of god himself.

Apparently that has been a big problem in the recent past/present, and where most accidental gun deaths come from. I'm not sure who would be even teaching such an unsafe method (hunter's safety courses?)

 

[Rooster Cogburn]

from the US constition...

"A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed."

Now, can someone tell me what regulated militia these people belong to, what security threats to a free state are happening at these town meetings, and how is the debate on health care reform (not health care reform itself - seperate issue) can be considered a security threat?

Your allowed to have a gun on you if you have a permit. And I'm sure your allowed to carry one in public, but I believe you need a permit. As long as it doesn't get everyone panicked, they should be allowed. And from what I saw, there wasn't any panic, therefor, just let them continue.

i understand the permit issue. what i dont understand is how this amendment has become so misunderstood, misused, and misinterpreted.

Your basically saying that, we shouldn't have guns at all, until we need a militia? That's what I got from what you said.

i didnt say that at all - actually i havent voiced an opinion on firearms at all. i merely quoted the amendment from the US constitution refering to the right to bear arms and asked how taking guns to a townhall meeting meets any of the conditions laid out within this constitution.

you will note it is the framers of the constitution that placed the conditions of this right, not me or any one else with a pro or anti firearm opnion or agenda.

vonne, I think I see the point you are trying to maintain about militias, but I think it is a misunderstanding. There can be no contention about what they meant- there is simply too much information on the subject from contemporary court decisions, precedent in English common law, and personal writings of the Founders. To 'regulate' in this context means 'to make regular.' In other words, a well regulated militia is one that is consistently maintained. Second, a militia by its very nature is an organic organization- it doesn't have guns or anything else its members do not bring to the party. Its a peoples' defense force. To say 'the militia' may bear arms is to say that every commoner may bear arms. And finally, the Amendment specifically states 'the right of the people to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed.' Although they mention militias in the descriptive pretext (which was a standard format), it's perfectly straightforward on that point.

All writings from the Founders take this interpretation for granted. So while there may be room to disagree over the merit of the Amendment, I think its meaning ought to be well settled.

 

[TMAN10112]

Apparently that has been a big problem in the recent past, and where most accidental gun deaths come from. I'm not sure who would be even teaching such an unsafe method (hunter's safety courses?)

snip

*snip*

*snip

I've learned recently from my instructor that it's actually what's being taught as "gun safety" is getting ppl killed.

If say, a hunter is out in the woods and has his gun loaded but no round chambered, his mindset is that the gun is unloaded and "safe". If he sees a deer and chambers a cartridge but doesn't shoot, he's likely to forget that there's still a chambered bullet in there when it comes time to clean the gun....presto! Accidental discharge. NRA instructors are starting to teach that a gun is Always loaded and Always treat any gun as though it is loaded

Since when haven't they been teaching that?

I've never met someone (especially with expirience as an instructor) who didn't preach that like it was the word of god himself.

Apparently that has been a big problem in the recent past/present, and where most accidental gun deaths come from. I'm not sure who would be even teaching such an unsafe method (hunter's safety courses?)

It was the first thing they mentioned when I took my Hunter's Safty Course.

Maybe they're teaching it wrong in other places, but here, gun safety was the main focus of the course (they even do the same when you take the bow-hunting course, although it's slightly different).

 

[thedailylunatic]

Statistically, it's pretty clear that gun control laws increase violent crime. They create a situation where the only people who have guns are cops and criminals. When the latter come a knockin', the former will be glad to peel your corpse off the floor after they're gone. I live on the fringe of a ghetto in the DC area and I can tell you personally that there is no better security system than an unloaded pump-action. My best friend, who grew up in the ghetto, had his house broken into a half a dozen times growing up: then his did would rack his empty shotgun and the would-be thief would disappear like a ghost. Nobody hears about all the crimes that guns prevent.

I find this paragraph rather odd! First you say there's statistical evidence, then give us some non-statistical reasons and anecdotal evidence. And then you go on to explain how "nobody hears about..." which is almost as if to say that statistics won't show you damn near anything about your claim.

I imagine your "statistics", if they exist, are just correlations between crime rates and certain gun laws. If that's the case, you're probably not comparing apples to apples: you might as well just compare high concentrations of people and low concentrations of people as that tends to be the pattern of where gun laws are strict or lax. Why would that be? Because urban areas, especially ones with racial tensions, tend to have had worse experiences with violent crime in the first place, so they are far more likely to outlaw firearms. Just because they continue to have higher crime rates doesn't really say anything about gun laws other than that they aren't a magic wand against all crime (which no one so far as I know has claimed.)

I'm sorry I didn't link the statistics... I have an unfortunate distraction called a LIFE. Maybe when I'm done studying for my exam in a few hours I'll link them. I was talking, specifically, about how places like DC (where I live) and Chicago and Great Britain and Jamaica have all experienced increases in rapes, murders and other violent crimes since gun bans were implemented. If that's not apples to apples, I don't know what is.

 

[Oolinthu]

They are pissed off over this administrations policies and since they have the right to bear arms they will use it to show they mean business since the representatives are not listening to the people.

I laugh whenever people bash the protesters trying to label them as crazy, yet they don't give in, the keep at it. Makes me proud to know my country still has some hope. Get em boys, I'm right behind ya.

Oh aren't you just precious. Haven't you already been beaten to a pulp on this topic before?

Wow people disagreed with me and resorted to calling me stupid and a loon, yeah you guys totally won that argument.

/sarcasm

Well, I was referring to this thread [http://www.escapistmagazine.com/forums/read/18.130609?page=4]. Skimming it, there are at least two arguments you never responded to. There, you did little more than just spew rhetoric without any substantive arguments. You seem to be setting up for a repeat performance.

The protesters aren't crazy, most of them are just stupid. They didn't bat any eye at any of the criminality and erosion of civil liberties under the previous administration, but leap out into the streets over a health care bill they don't understand.

 

[AceDiamond]

It's America, we can. Just because you have a gun does not mean you are going to shoot someone.

By that same logic, you shouldn't own or carry a tool unless you're planning on using it. So there.

I'm all for second amendment rights but this is ridiculous.

 

[Wordsandstuffwillbenexttothis8465]

It's America, we can. Just because you have a gun does not mean you are going to shoot someone.

By that same logic, you shouldn't own or carry a tool unless you're planning on using it. So there.

I'm all for second amendment rights but this is ridiculous.

What? I said the opposite of that!

 

[MusicalFreedom]

whether they're technically right or not, they're assholes who are only hurting the image of America.

 

[Daezd]

WTF!? What is up with the people bringing guns to the meetings? It was one thing to bring the pistols, but why are the people bringing assault rifles? I always thought it was illegal to carry a loaded weapon in publc.

Can someone explain to me why people are bringing the guns to these meetings.

THIS TOPIC IS NOT ABOUT HEALTHCARE REFORM SO DON'T GET INTO TOO MUCH.

I PLEDGE ALLEGIANCE, UNDER THE FLAG...


We have a voice, we will be heard!

Nazis had death panels, we don't want more Nazis!

I enjoy this rice pudding! Don't take my pudding you death panel Nazis!

On topic: The whole situation is totally messed up. I would try to not think about it, because if you try to take away their rice pudding guns they'll just go more nuts.

 

[Dudemeister]

They are pissed off over this administrations policies and since they have the right to bear arms they will use it to show they mean business since the representatives are not listening to the people.

I laugh whenever people bash the protesters trying to label them as crazy, yet they don't give in, the keep at it. Makes me proud to know my country still has some hope. Get em boys, I'm right behind ya.

Some hope for what, reacting in a stupidly over the top fashion to a bill they clearly haven't read?