Ha ha! Racist.

[Canadamus Prime]

Shamefully, racist and sexist seem to be thrown around a lot lately. The Hitman Absolution trailer was not sexist, and this trailer is not racist. They are not specifically portraying a culture, it is nonspecific tribal. It is rather lazy story-telling, maybe a bit ignorant of that general area if it indeed is supposed to be a general area of the world, but still nonspecific.

What this person said. It's gotten to the point that if you try telling a story and inc. any characters that are not white and/or male you're either racist or sexist or both, and if you don't inc. any characters that aren't white and/or male you're either racist or sexist or both. So in other words if you try telling a story these days, you're fucked.

Racism is a buzzword people use when they can't think of a compelling argument as to whether or not a game is good.

Also that. The word "racism" has become so ubiquitous that it doesn't even mean anything anymore.

Can't we just stop taking everything so goddamn damn fucking serious every damn time.

Yes please! Can we? Can we? Huh? Can we? Pleeeeeeeeeeeeease!!

 

[maninahat]

Oh God, I didn't reply in the other thread, but seriously, get off your PC high-horse. There's no racism there, at all. Did you notice the evil military bastards are all white? NO? That's probably because you're just so desperate to be offended at the depiction of tribals as, well, tribal and primitive.

Which they are by definition.

Tribes aren't primitive by definition. A tribe is simply a small, close knit group of people, bound by family ties or distinct cultural practises. The vast majority of tribes aren't primitive at all, having been subsumed by developed civilizations. You're much more likely to see them running casinos or doing Hakas at a rugby match. There are still primitive tribes, but they only exist in some of the most remote parts of the world, with distant civilizations having a very limited influence on them. This game has an old fashioned tribe only a stones throw away from a developed civilization and a tourist spot. That doesn't tend to happen in real life, as the natives would simply move into the developed society.

Okay, they're unrealistic, so what? The thing is, writers only ever put tribes or natives into a story so that they can be oppressed, or be "one with nature". Natives apparently aren't concerned with mundane things, or have their own interests or opinions. They are always primitive, always childishly naive, and always in need of a chaperone. That's when racism gets written in: natives aren't people, they are "the people".

 

[Blood Brain Barrier]

Hey how bout we get some white tribal guys instead of always black/indian backwater tribes that are less solhisticated that anyone else? I mean show some originality people .

Like a game set in the Ukraine? Sign me up!

 

[maninahat]

Tribes aren't primitive by definition. A tribe is simply a small, close knit group of people, bound by family ties or distinct cultural practises. The vast majority of tribes aren't primitive at all, having been subsumed by developed civilizations.

I'm going to stop you here, you've contradicted yourself. If they're been subsumed, they're no longer a tribe are they? They're part of whatever culture enveloped them. If to you tribal just means "black people from certain islands regardless of the society in which they live or their cultural practices" then I'm going to have to disagree with you.

You can join a developed society and still remain connected to a tribe via family relations and cultural traditions. Hence why Maori and native Indians still exist, despite having jobs and taking part in broader governments.

Okay, they're unrealistic, so what? The thing is, writers only ever put tribes or natives into a story so that they can be oppressed, or be "one with nature". Natives apparently aren't concerned with mundane things, or have their own interests or opinions. They are always primitive, always childishly naive, and always in need of a chaperone. That's when racism gets written in: natives aren't people, they are "the people".

Actually, tribals are generally written as purer and, like you said, "one with nature". These are good things. And yeah, childishly naive; you know, due to isolation. What do you expect? Seriously?

The "noble savage" stereotype is still a stereotype, and its still a condescending and dishonest depiction of tribal cultures. There is nothing implicitly honourable about living in treehouses and worshipping the forest - that's just the fanciful thinking of idealists who want to get away from our "terrible, materialistic" society. Writers like to think that they're being positive with such portrayals, but they're simply creating an illusion that tribes people are mindlessly content with their "simple, harmonious" existence. Nevermind that tribes people are people, not hippy poster children, and they tend to like the idea of electric lighting and living to see 40, as much as anyone else.

Isolated tribesmen are not naive. Usually they are xenophobic and jaded. They're certainly not keen on making strangers their leader. They're much more likely to take the piss out of you.

 

[soh45400]

Oh you do love to be offended don't you, well we can hardly stop you in your daily pleasures.

Oh, did I say I was offended? I don't need to be offended to see something is wrong.

What exactly was supposed to be racist here? The island tribe stereotype?

Besides the stereotyping (which is a by the numbers caricature of tribals), there is also the whole colonial aspect of a westerner coming along and appropriating someone else's culture, becoming their leader/savior because they are apparently too primitive/weak to fend for themselves. That's when a stereotype moves from being silly, to being a form of cultural condescension, carrying an accidental, pro-colonialist message.

Hence why I bring up the Heart of Darkness references from the previous game. Far Cry 2 was very clear on the evils of foreigners coming along, trying to dominate a local culture for their own gain. That message seems to have been forgotten though - as far as the trailer shows, you become some kind of champion of the locals in Far Cry 3, a "warrior to defeat them all". That's really the worst part of all of this.

I completely agree with what you are saying but I think the game developers agree with this too. If their insistence on Far Cry 3 being different and story-focused is true then they will do the Spec Ops thing and let you think you are the good guy and the 'chosen one' and then turn around and say it was all drugs and your own mind and the influence of movies/games(remember the trailer where they show the main character posing with an AK47 as if it was a toy and then someone yanks it out of his hands).
I have seen some of the other stuff about this game and I have to say this game is not what you think it is.

 

[Smithburg]

I think a lot of people are missing the point I was making. I don't have a problem with the game featuring tribes in the first place (I would have said so, if that were the case). I take issue with the way the game depicts the tribe, and the way the game seems to be using them in the story.

There are good and bad ways to handle tribal cultures, and I think that depicting them as manic, chanting cannibals who treat a random white guys as their saviour counts as a bad.

Except there are plenty of white guys in the tribe. And there are other people that help other than the lone white guy. You took a short video and went nuts over it, wait for the game to come out to make a judgement. There are tons of parts in the game which have nothing to do with the tribe. Theres an old crazy white guy who does nothing but drugs, you could say thats racist almost, but I see you giving no issue to that.

 

[maninahat]

I think a lot of people are missing the point I was making. I don't have a problem with the game featuring tribes in the first place (I would have said so, if that were the case). I take issue with the way the game depicts the tribe, and the way the game seems to be using them in the story.

There are good and bad ways to handle tribal cultures, and I think that depicting them as manic, chanting cannibals who treat a random white guys as their saviour counts as a bad.

Except there are plenty of white guys in the tribe. And there are other people that help other than the lone white guy. You took a short video and went nuts over it, wait for the game to come out to make a judgement. There are tons of parts in the game which have nothing to do with the tribe. Theres an old crazy white guy who does nothing but drugs, you could say thats racist almost, but I see you giving no issue to that.

Why would I find a white man taking drugs to be racist? Perhaps I didn't find an issue there because there isn't one. I found one with the way the tribe is depicted, and I made my reasons for that quite clear. I'm not actually trying to look for racism, contrary to what some people might think.

 

[Denamic]

My god, they're not the exact right shade of black!
That's the reacistest thing I've ever seen.

 

[StBishop]

Oh you do love to be offended don't you, well we can hardly stop you in your daily pleasures.

Oh, did I say I was offended? I don't need to be offended to see something is wrong.

What exactly was supposed to be racist here? The island tribe stereotype?

Besides the stereotyping (which is a by the numbers caricature of tribals), there is also the whole colonial aspect of a westerner coming along and appropriating someone else's culture, becoming their leader/savior because they are apparently too primitive/weak to fend for themselves. That's when a stereotype moves from being silly, to being a form of cultural condescension, carrying an accidental, pro-colonialist message.

Hence why I bring up the Heart of Darkness references from the previous game. Far Cry 2 was very clear on the evils of foreigners coming along, trying to dominate a local culture for their own gain. That message seems to have been forgotten though - as far as the trailer shows, you become some kind of champion of the locals in Far Cry 3, a "warrior to defeat them all". That's really the worst part of all of this.

You did come across pretty offended. Just sayin'.

Do we know the PC is white? It could be that he's not. Would that change anything?

I didn't see any racism there personally, but that doesn't mean it's not there.

Also, were the invaders white? I don't know if that matters but I thought they were white and your post implied that you thought the PC was coming to dominate the locals. (See bolded part above).

 

[Canadamus Prime]

That priestess is not sexy, and the trailer is not racist. So failure all around 0/10

When in doubt assume stupid.

 

[blipblop]

Token native people can only be saved by white male.. yah it´s stupid and a bit racist and has been done before in Avatar, pocahontas, dancing with wolves and so on

 

[maninahat]

snip

So you're complaining because it's what, unrealistic? Grow up.

http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/racism

None of the definitions there apply to this. NONE. It was never implied in the video (nor, I expect, the game) that tribals are inferior to white people. It's simply not there. You're making things up.

Maybe if you spent more time not looking for things to complain about you'd enjoy the video more.

Actually, the first definition describes exactly what I was talking about; "inherent differences among the various human races determine cultural or individual achievement, usually involving the idea that one's own race is superior and has the right to rule others."

That tribes are invariably depicted as childish and in need of a chaperone, falls under that definition. In these stories, it falls to a mighty whitey to lead these people, because they apparently can't do it themselves.

I don't look for things to complain about. I don't have to.

 

[peruvianskys]

You do realise the use of tropes in of themselves, isn't racist, sexist or whatever kind of ism you can throw at them. The trope has to actually be racist for that point to matter.

And the trope of "White guy comes and saves a bunch of primitive exotic dark-skinned savages" is racist.

Showing tribes living as some tribes do doesn't fall into that category.

Do some African-Americans drink grape soda and drive around listening to rap music blaring on their giant, tricked out cars? Yes.

Is it racist to reduce an African-American character to such a stereotype? Yes.

The same thing applies here. Even if some tribal communities do occasionally live this way, it's still insensitive and tacky to portray them as dark=skinned cardboard cutouts instead of actual human beings.

If the protagonist was freaking Chinese or Middle Eastern we wouldn't even be having this discussion, despite the fact that he'd still be a foreign character being treated like a king amongst a tribe.

Because "Chinese man saves exotic tribe" is not a well-established racist trope whereas this is.

There isn't just one portrayal of tribal life. Each individual program/film/game handles them in their own way. And the fact is there are a lot of tribes that still live life in same manor as their ancestors, choosing to keep their culture, is fine and there is nothing wrong with a game using those types of cultures as a point of reference for fictitious tribes in a story.

But there sure as hell is a problem when media consistently portrays tribal communities not as legitimate, worthwhile collections of human beings, but exotic "savage" stereotypes, which is what they're doing here.

If I made a video game where the final level took place in a diamond cutting shop, and all the enemies were hook-nosed Hasidim, or if you had to fight a bunch of buck-toothed rednecks who were distilling poison moonshine, would you still just shrug it off? Because this is no different.

It's not a depiction of every tribe in existence, it's a depiction of one specific and fictional tribe in this game.

And that fictional tribe is a racially insensitive, culturally ignorant stereotype based on Eurocentric, Colonialist narratives.

 

[ShadowKatt]

Can't we just stop taking everything so goddamn damn fucking serious every damn time.

Nope. Not as long as we have a legal system that lets you sue someone into financial oblivion for making you feel the least bit uncomfortable. As long as we have that ability, we are guaranteed that anything we don't like can be legally and financially destroyed to make us happy.

 

[ShadowKatt]

Because "Chinese man saves exotic tribe" is not a well-established racist trope whereas this is.

So in other words, it's only racist because a white man is doing it.

You know, that seems a little racist in and of itself, hmm?

 

[RanD00M]

Snip.

You mean it's racist to make a group of people in a game resemble a slight stereotype, or to be based on something that exists? Wow, when did gamers think that they needed to be politically correct at every turn?

 

[peruvianskys]

So in other words, it's only racist because a white man is doing it.

You know, that seems a little racist in and of itself, hmm?

You're so clever.

My problem with this trailer is that it fulfills an offensive trope in which a paternal white figure encounters an exotic, "savage" tribe of natives who have a problem they cannot fix themselves. The white man, usually with help from a subservient or otherwise uncharacterized "magical negro," then solves the problem using his superior physical or mental skills.

The above narrative, which describes the content of this trailer perfectly, is a colonialist masturbation fantasy that relies on racially insensitive and cultural ignorant assumptions about tribal cultures.

This dynamic of superior white man saving savage brown tribe is racist, and yes, the racism comes from the fact that one side is white while the other is not.

 

[ShadowKatt]

So in other words, it's only racist because a white man is doing it.

You know, that seems a little racist in and of itself, hmm?

You're so clever.

My problem with this trailer is that it fulfills an offensive trope in which a paternal white figure encounters an exotic, "savage" tribe of natives who have a problem they cannot fix themselves. The white man, usually with help from a subservient or otherwise uncharacterized "magical negro," then solves the problem using his superior physical or mental skills.

The above narrative, which describes the content of this trailer perfectly, is a colonialist masturbation fantasy that relies on racially insensitive and cultural ignorant assumptions about tribal cultures.

This dynamic of superior white man saving savage brown tribe is racist, and yes, the racism comes from the fact that one side is white while the other is not.

So to sum up your post in a word, Yes.

This is the problem we have right now. If you're white, it doesn't matter what you do, what your intentions are, or where you're from. For all the talk of oppression and discrimination, we've come to the point where if you're white, you're automatically racist for being white. You're automatically the bad guy for being white. Everyone else is the poor innocent victim because they're not white. Oh, look, a group of non-whites. What's this, a white is going to help them? That racist bastard, descending on them with his supreme intellect and skill and pushing it on them. He's obviously only two minutes away from declaring them only 2/3 of a person and giving them a cotton patch doll as consolation.

We have some serious problems here regarding racism that need to be addressed, and this is one of the big ones. You cannot expect to find equality by blaming it all on one party and making them the scape goat.

Edit: This may, of course, be getting a little off track. This was about whether or not a game trailer was racist, after all, which it isn't.

 

[xomocekc]

lol at all the white dudes ITT deciding what's racist.

It's racist as fuck. Shut ur honkey mouths.

 

[TeletubbiesGolfGun]

lol at all the white dudes ITT deciding what's racist.

It's racist as fuck. Shut ur honkey mouths.

yes, it's racist because it's a white guy. changing the race somehow makes it not racist...


that isn't racist, if anything it's racist towards the white guy because he simple has a lighter skin color.

dear me, racism HARDCORE!


lol at your honkey shout out, i legitimately laugh out loud anytime i've been called that, feel free to try it again for another good laugh.