Hacking/BOTTING on MMOs is morally superior over hacking FPS etc
- Thread starter ionveau
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I'll go ahead and say that all forms of cheating are pathetic, and that by claiming otherwise, the OP loses the right to call himself a gamer.
People with Edward in their badges should stop making threads.
Grinding is part of the game experience, if you're not having fun in that then don't play the game. Just because you are used to mindless grind like in WoW or various different Korean MMOs doesn't mean that grinding suck in all MMOs and people botting ruin the game for people who are not.
I can tackle this thread from 10 different directions but I'm not even gonna bother considering your ridiculous calculator metaphor.
Grinding is part of the game experience, if you're not having fun in that then don't play the game. Just because you are used to mindless grind like in WoW or various different Korean MMOs doesn't mean that grinding suck in all MMOs and people botting ruin the game for people who are not.
I can tackle this thread from 10 different directions but I'm not even gonna bother considering your ridiculous calculator metaphor.
Botting/hacking is bad regardless of the game's status as an FPS or MMO. The simple thing it boils down to is: You're being rewarded for not playing the game. This isn't an RTS where probes can mine resources until they're dry without your input needed so you can focus on building infrastructure, the players having to do every other action themselves is a limit set be the game's creators to prevent you from leveling up too fast. You could have a bot kill only boars in the starting area or mine only a certain patch of harvestable resources, but you're still ruining the game out there for other players regardless. Time is also a resource, and a limited one especially. If another player is hogging resource A, most players would either go to resource B or wait for the player using resource A to leave. If your bot is hogging that patch, you're introducing another element of competition that, for all rights, shouldn't be there in the first place.
Let's say newbie A needs to kill 30 boars in the starting area to complete a quest and level up so he can move on. Newbie A arrives at the boar hunting ground, only to see your level 50-something killing every boar in sight with a single hit, at a much faster rate than Newbie A can compete with. What should have been a 10-15 minute quest suddenly turns into a 40 minute one, wasting Newbie A's time and patience while you're catching a movie or doing your taxes.
Let's say newbie A needs to kill 30 boars in the starting area to complete a quest and level up so he can move on. Newbie A arrives at the boar hunting ground, only to see your level 50-something killing every boar in sight with a single hit, at a much faster rate than Newbie A can compete with. What should have been a 10-15 minute quest suddenly turns into a 40 minute one, wasting Newbie A's time and patience while you're catching a movie or doing your taxes.
Actually Botting in MMO does in fact ruin the game for others. It really fucks with the economy of the game. Also if you are playing a MMO where you have to grind to get anywhere or anything you're probably playing a shit one.
You couldn't make that argument really. He's not saying they're all bland and samey, he's saying that one genre rewards skill and the other rewards time. I only half agree with the OP on that, MMOs are skewed more to reward players who've played the game for a long time by giving them access to high end content however they do require skill. I'd just say the ratio of importance between Skill and Time investment is different for MMOs vs FPSs.bushwhacker2k said:
It doesn't matter if you're a wicked healer who can balance aggro and keep track of every member of your party if you're level 5 and everyone else is level 60. However if you're the best in the world at say... Bad Company 2 you're going to do pretty damn well with only basic unlocks on a pub server filled with max rank players.
I'm going to take FPS hack over MMO bots anyday, I can leave a server and not have to deal with a bot, but in MMOs say like wow where tons of people used to bot the battlegrounds, it essentially screwed over tons of people, you'd get into Aleterac Valley and its like yea...15 people on my team are afk, gg, there is no way we can win, thanks for wasting 20 minutes of my life because if I afk I get a deserter debuff and simply waiting around and gaining no honor that's how long it will take for the enemy team to go and kill w/e respective faction leader.
There is nothing morally superior about gaining an unfair advantage above anyone.
There is nothing morally superior about gaining an unfair advantage above anyone.
I will go with the cheating is cheating and your bad if you do it on anything that has other people you do not know plying with you. Saying hacking in an FPS is well easier as it has an instant and very easy to notice effect. While hacking or botting in a MMO is more difficult as while the botting itself may not seem to be harmful at the time the long term is far greater.
If I had a hack in an FPS that gave me insta headshots every time it is easier to point out and to you more harmful. While botting in an MMO takes time and therefore is harder to notice the harm it can do. Botting in a MMO still harms other people and I am not talking about economy I am talking about group PvE and group PvP. If I botteted a chachter in WoW from 1 to 85 it would actually harm quite a good number of people. If you do that then when you eventually join in on a dungeon or raid you are effectively a useless person you will have no idea on how to do anything that your class should, and if because of your ineptitude the group wipes or fails you are not wasting in game gold on repairs and that but you are also wasting there time. If you are playing for the purpose of doing end game content and bot to get there you will at no point be helpful to anyone you play with and therefor it is harmful to bot in an MMO.
If you get to end game and still bot then you have no intention of playing the game it should have been played and just don't play it if you don't like it.
If I had a hack in an FPS that gave me insta headshots every time it is easier to point out and to you more harmful. While botting in an MMO takes time and therefore is harder to notice the harm it can do. Botting in a MMO still harms other people and I am not talking about economy I am talking about group PvE and group PvP. If I botteted a chachter in WoW from 1 to 85 it would actually harm quite a good number of people. If you do that then when you eventually join in on a dungeon or raid you are effectively a useless person you will have no idea on how to do anything that your class should, and if because of your ineptitude the group wipes or fails you are not wasting in game gold on repairs and that but you are also wasting there time. If you are playing for the purpose of doing end game content and bot to get there you will at no point be helpful to anyone you play with and therefor it is harmful to bot in an MMO.
If you get to end game and still bot then you have no intention of playing the game it should have been played and just don't play it if you don't like it.
One thing I think people are forgetting here as well is that most FPS hacking happens on PCs because it is easier. On PC we can ban them which makes FPS even less of a large scale annoyance. There is also always the option to change server something you can't do in say Guild Wars. In Guild Wars you are stuck with the same economy as everyone else.
I guess if you want to only look at my whole argument and take out what you want sure. Though it still stands that if you took two people one who has played the games for months or years will 100% of the time destroy the new guy who has played for a week even if they have the same gear. You seem to see it as duur press 5 buttons its easy, duur get head-shot its easy.ionveau said:
Also what is with you and only pointing to the killing of boars I mean it really erks me that you only seem to be talking about what was shown in that Make love not Warcraft episode of Southpark.
I actually believe hacking in an FPS is better than an MMO. Lets say I just got Black Ops, well I would be no good at it and I don't want to spend all my time dead because a bunch of people who have been playing for months keep killing me. So I decide to tip the scales in my favor just a bit by getting a wallhack or something of that nature.
I haven't read most of this thread, I just skipped, but I would like to point out 3 bad instances in botting/hacking.ionveau said:
1) Someone uses a bot to control their character during a dungeon, that person signs up for a very important role, Tank or Healer, this can either be a terrible bot, auto follow others, auto attacks, which means that people will be stuck with a bot in one of the most important roles who doesn't do anything. If it is a good bot, the person will do a standard rotation to keep threat or heal when neccessary, but what about when it comes to moving out of the fire? Stopping a spellcast? Picking up loose mobs? What about using cooldowns at appropriate moments? If they cannot do that, dead group. Everyone loses.
2) They farm resources, such as Herbs and Ore, first when using these bots they normally fall under the world, the reason for this is so that hostile mobs will not attack them, and people cannot report them. We'll bypass how that is negative, because that's taking stuff from people without having to put yourself at risk. Also, you could start picking up said ore/herb and all of a sudden it disappears because the bot was there first but you could not see it. Wasting your time. Additionally, when you bot for resources, you are going to sell those resources, you will sell them at dirt cheap prices because you didn't do any labour so you do not know the value of the items, which means that person who just went on a 10 hour farming grind to make money for that piece of gear they need to start raiding is going to find they cannot make any money because you just crashed the market. Not only that but after you crash the market it will most likely never repair and will stay at that price forever, meaning when you next get your bot out you are going to crash the market even more.
3) Bot during PVP, this is similar to the dungeon one, ruining other peoples experience so you don't have to lift a finger, disgusting. Serious, what's the point in playing an MMO if you aren't going to put the effort in? You should just play Pokemon with Action Replay and hack yourself a team of 100 Legendaries if you don't want to work for anything and want a free ride. In my eyes the point of an MMO is to put in the effort and get the reward, I farmed the herbs for 10 hours I deserve to be rewarded for the labour, I stayed up all night with my guild to kill that new boss and I was rewarded with a new piece of gear. The only reason to bot is so you can brag, because if you bot gear and gold then what else is there to do in an MMO? When you bot you remove the essence of the game, which is working hard for a substantial reward.
As you can see, the three above points impact other players in an MMO, quite a lot, and quite badly...
Go ahead if the game has wall hackers then your not the only one using it so go for it have fun.Wrann said:
And also im not buying the whole its hard to master MMOs no matter what MMO i played they all have bad UIs with poor button placement (e.g keys 1-0 are skills) and overall have the same gameplay
MMOs tend to also annoy me by having
Rogue kills mage
mage kills warrior
Warrior kills rogue
system
That's not true. Any action done offline in Eve doesn't introduce money into the economy (it simply shifts it around) and thus is no problem. Also, Eve is a hell of a lot more competitive than any FPS as the effects are lasting and shaping the world. In an FPS, you just restart the round. In Eve, you make one mistake and the efforts of the last week to take a system are gone. Also, 1600 people fights in one system.LoFr3Eq said:
You're assuming a lot. First, you're assuming that the end-game raid crap is all that MMO players care about. Seeing as you're obviously someone more concerned with numbers games than the experience and camaraderie, I can see how you'd miss the wider social aspects of MMOs.ionveau said:
Second, yes, I do get annoyed by people who use hacks and bots to skip to the end of single player games. Why? Because you're invalidating the entire experience the designers were trying to craft for you. You might as well march into their offices and piss all over their cubicles. It's fine if you don't like a game's experience, whether it's an MMO or single-player or FPS or whatever, but the solution to that problem? Don't play the damn game. Leave it to the people who enjoy it for what it is.
Heck, personally, I refuse to even use DLC bypass codes and/or cheats until I've proven I can beat the game without them. Either develop the skill to see the game the way it was intended or go home.