Halo's Story Derivative?

[More Fun To Compute]

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Your post listed a lot of things that could be considered as cliches in sci-fi and fantasy games but did not make a case of why Halo should be singled out for special attention or why the whole barrel is rotten. You could have done that by mentioning Mass Effect for every point or by some other less "trollish" method since you apparently dislike appearing like a troll more than making a comprehensive argument. I'm also saying pretty much the same thing here as in my first reply.

I actually think it is pretty clear that this topic is about what makes Halo more derivative than other games or why the way it is derivative makes it worse than others.

 

[Dexiro]

Idk how relevant this is, maybe not at all, but the reason i hate Master Chef is because he's faceless. You can say he has some depth... but he still has no identity, it's just a metal suit with a shiny ball for a face. You couldn't even pass him off as a robot.

For a similar reason i hate Kratos too, because he just has a face that i'd literally never tire of punching.

 

[andrat]

Idk how relevant this is, maybe not at all, but the reason i hate Master Chef is because he's faceless. You can say he has some depth... but he still has no identity, it's just a metal suit with a shiny ball for a face. You couldn't even pass him off as a robot.
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The point is so that you can picture yourself saving the world, instead of some random dude.

 

[Pegghead]

I was talking about this earlier this morning and my friend explained to me how Halo is biblical in its story, even down to the names. The covenant, in particular the prophets, see the ark as a form of their salvation after being informed of its potential by the oracle, salvation from such things as the flood. But in following what they feel to be truthful it becomes less about the religion itself and more using religion as a weak excuse to cause further chaos.

 

[Vinculi]

One of the main points I've been told is that its derivative of Sci-Fi author Larry Niven's "Ringworld" books, although i've also heard comparisons between its background setting and that of "starcraft".

 

[AVATAR_RAGE]

The story was lost on me after Halo 2, the first two games had a good story line (though I think Halo 2 was a lil bit rushed). There was allot things that happened between those games without any real explanation. Good story telling does not expect the audience to look up what has happened just to follow the story.

That and Cheif could be fleshed out a little bit.

Thats all I realy have to complain about.

 

[The Rookie Gamer]

Just to let people know(thougn most of you won't care), Master Chief is NAVY. Master Chief Petty Officer. So he technically isn't a space marine.

Well, Marines are the infantry of the Navy......so he would be a Master Chief of the Space Navy?

It really isn't called space navy seeing as the all the ships they pilot are space faring vehicles, so he is just Master Chief Petty Officer of the Navy.

Random question about this, why is Master Chief Navy instead of Marines?
I'd think that your highly expensive deadly infantrymen would be better served in the branch of your military that is intended to see ground combat/boarding actions. While the men in the Navy have the job of running the ships and shooting big guns at enemy ships/planets.
This isn't meant as any real criticism as it doesn't matter as far as the games go, but it doesn't seem to make much sense from a background perspective.

They were Naval Special Warfare, they were top of the line killers meant for special missons,i.e sabotage, assassination, and there was no where near enough for infantry, and they wouldn't waste them for run of the mill ground combat or boarding actions. I they were on the ground, they were there for a misson( which could be find a artifact the Covenant were digging up, take it, and leave a nuke as a parting present.)

 

[Lepre-Khan]

I'm not disagreeing with you, but 95% of Sci-fi is derivative. Every story has been told, there is nothing new under the sun, the only changes that can be made are setting and characters. Look at it this way, Shakesperes plays are retellings of other stories (and themselves but that's another topic) and Hollywood is made of nothing but retelling the same story over and over again. So yeah, it's derivative the same way every other story in any media is derivative.

What this guy said.

 

[wolf thing]

master cheif is an intresting character in the books. but in the game is int because it would destract from the game play. it would become dull if inbetween ever mission you had to here him mon about his lack of a child hood or how his the only one who can stop the evil alien it would boring. this is also one reason why i dont like mgs4

 

[Pandalisk]

I actully enjoyed the storyline, i cared about Keyes, i cared about The Marines, i didn't care for Keyes' daughter though, she was just thrust upon me when i'd rather she wasn't.

I do love the Halo books and the backstory though, Games based on the Ghosts of Onyx or Cole's Protocol need to be done.

and not alot of stories make me give a damn about things afterwards, but i really want to know the state of earth at its present.

 

[Eclectic Dreck]

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Your post listed a lot of things that could be considered as cliches in sci-fi and fantasy games but did not make a case of why Halo should be singled out for special attention or why the whole barrel is rotten. You could have done that by mentioning Mass Effect for every point or by some other less "trollish" method since you apparently dislike appearing like a troll more than making a comprehensive argument. I'm also saying pretty much the same thing here as in my first reply.

I actually think it is pretty clear that this topic is about what makes Halo more derivative than other games or why the way it is derivative makes it worse than others.

You are correct: I did not establish why Halo ought to be singled out. I would also point out that this was not the precise question that was asked nor was it the issue I sought to address. My previous posts consist of pointing out that many key plot points are taken from other titles. I did so in a fashion that demonstrated just how common this sort of thing was among other popular and successful games across a variety of genres.

Thus, I answered the explicit question that was asked (how is halo derivative), I answered the implied question (do I believe halo is harmed as a result), I answered a direct extension of this question (This exact list of problems applies to another popular game), and now I'm responding to your argument which appears to consist of little more than a pair of rhetorical fallacies (straw man - you are constructing a new argument for me to address and ad hom where you attack my posts without addressing the issues therein).

And to address your closing supposition, I'll run you through what I read into the OP point by point:

have read and heard many comments saying that Halo's story sucks, and is derivative. However, looking back on it, I cannot see where it could be considered derivative, and I have never actually heard what is so uninspired about it.

Here we have the premise of the thread being established. The OP points out that other people take issue with the plot of Halo while they are unable to see exactly what points may be considered derivative.

Maybe in a few small parts of it, but parts so small it would be like saying Star Wars is unoriginal because something before it had laser guns: absolutely ridiculous.

Here the OP establishes that they understand certain concepts are certainly derivative - space ships, laser guns and aliens have all been done before but he points out that an absurdly popular IP runs into this very same problem and is rarely accused of derivation.

So tell me, those of you who don't like Halo's story: in what ways is the story derivative? Can you point out any specific examples?

A call to the masses to weigh in on the issue. Here is where the question that is implied earlier is directly asked - what particular elements of the Halo narrative are derivative. Since I actually quite liked Halo, I pointed this out in my opening line and then went on to list major plot points in the Halo story that are inarguably derivative. I then listed games that use the same concept. You'll take note that many of these games were released after Halo, and thus I demonstrate by example that Halo is not the sole offender.

I understand that I may be misinterpreting what the OP wrote, and I am also willing to believe my own argument is not the most compelling ever written. But, do not assume I'm trying to establish I believe the game is bad or even worse than another because of it's narrative transgressions - I simply pointed out a few plot elements used in Halo that are incredibly common in games and science fiction media in general.

 

[Fr]anc[is]

Well I don't want to comment on Halo as a whole, but I really like the covenant. All the races are unique and not just "humans with fins/spots/sideways mohawks/etc." They're all just... cool.

 

[Shock and Awe]

Well, derivative does not mean something is bad. Take Star Wars, if you think about it, just about EVERYTHING is derived from other stories and major themes from other genres, though despite that(or because of it) Star Wars is a great movie and loved by everyone. Everyone bashes Halo because it apparently has no original ideas, but from what I have seen it is a pretty deep story and very good, especially if you care enough to read the books.

 

[Verex]

I know Halo threads are generally frowned upon on The Escapist, but it is for that reason that I have to post this particular question here.

I have read and heard many comments saying that Halo's story sucks, and is derivative. However, looking back on it, I cannot see where it could be considered derivative, and I have never actually heard what is so uninspired about it. Maybe in a few small parts of it, but parts so small it would be like saying Star Wars is unoriginal because something before it had laser guns: absolutely ridiculous.

So tell me, those of you who don't like Halo's story: in what ways is the story derivative? Can you point out any specific examples?

EDIT: And no, "It's about space marines" doesn't count as a valid reason. For that matter, anyone who actually looks into the story will see depth of character in Master Chief, so you can say he's a boring, 2-dimensional character if you want, but I won't be accepting that as a real reason anytime soon.

It uses an overly used plot line where you don't really find out anything more about the story in game. It's more of completing objectives and finding out where to go next. Check out Marathon (also made by Bungie), and you will see that they are capable of making a space game without losing plot line.

 

[gmaverick019_v1legacy]

it wasn't too shabby, personally i liked halo 2's gameplay the best out of em all, but for an fps they were all pretty decent, and i know a few guys who are pro-pc gamers at the time who said they hated it because "its garbage, its the worst fps ever made, it didn't even come out for pc first, and it isnt with keyboard and mouse, its horrible" so i know a few people at least who flame about it because its succesful on console, while some just flat out dont like fps's so they hate hearing the massive amounts of media about it.


id say its above average, lots of replayability, and i loved the books alot so its pretty damn good imo

 

[Eldritch Warlord]

One of the main points I've been told is that its derivative of Sci-Fi author Larry Niven's "Ringworld" books,

Total bull, the only bit of Ringworld in Halo is the appearance of Halo itself. Even then it's a very different approach to a very simple concept. If you don't know, the Ringworld has the same diameter as Earth's orbit and is meant to be lived on while a Halo has the same diameter as Earth and is a galactic-scale superweapon which can be lived on.

although i've also heard comparisons between its background setting and that of "starcraft".

That holds a bit more truth. When you flay the universes down to their bones you could say that:

Terrans = UNSC
Protoss = Covenant
Zerg = Flood
Xel'naga = Forerunners

In reality these groups are just archetypal. It's hard to find Space Opera scale Sci-fi that doesn't have factions like these. Consider anything more than a half-page summary and differences become apparent.

 

[Enigma6667]

It's not exactly that it's derivative. It's that it isn't told in any new or interesting ways. Which in turn makes it feel derivative

 

[Thaius]

While I generally like Halo, I would have to say that yes, the game is in fact derivative. Just a quick listing off the top of my head:

1) The main character is a power armor wearing space marine. While the powered armor and branch of service vary immensely, this idea has been common for ages. WH40K, Doom, Star Craft, Crysis and dozens of others have explored this concept. Generally this is done so that the obstacles the player is required to overcome seem reasonable because:

2) The player character is the only one who can save the city/country/planet/species. This is such a common narrative concept that you'll find it in games ranging from Galaga to Rainbow Six Vegas 2.

3) Aliens hate humanity. Maybe it's because of the fact we have five fingers and our skeletons on the inside. Maybe it's because we littered on the wrong planet. For whatever reason, in most video games Aliens seek to exterminate humanity for little discernable reason. In Halo, religious fanatacism drives the extermination attempt.

4) The group the player belongs to is on the ropes and is about to lose the conflict. Doom, Command and Conquer, Killzone, Quake, Duke Nukem, Warcraft, Dragon Age: Origins - countless games leverage this concept.

5) The only thing worse than one alien is another alien that seeks to consume all life. The Flood represent the true threat in the Halo universe, but the basic concept for the creatures can be found in things like Alien, Starship Troopers, Starcraft, WH40K and so forth.

6) Humanity is always outclassed and outgunned. No matter how advanced human equipment, the aliens always have something fancier. Starcraft, WH40K, Duke Nukem, every space shooter ever made and still others leverage this concept regularly.

Not only have these things been done many, many times before, they've often been assembeld in roughly the same way (Quake for example).

Also, as a counter-point to the "Master Chief is a quality character", I would assert that you must have been playing a completely different game than I did. In the game, he is nothing more than a suit of armor with a gun who stoically guns down the enemies of man for no reason save that he's the only human lucky enough to have power armor. While I'm sure there might be better characterization in other media, none of this was present in the games themselves.

Interesting points, and your following posts had some good rhetoric. I get that these elements are in there, just... to me, derivative things can come together in such a way to make something original. And maybe it's just ignorance, but I've never seen another story that's the same. I mean, sure, The Flood may be an alien comparable to that of Alien in purpose, but placed on a ring that was made for the sole purpose of containing them and killing their potential food were they to escape? For that matter, being led to this discovery by believing activating it would destroy the flood, only to find out it would actually destroy all sentient life in the galaxy? Despite the unoriginality of some of the basic concepts of the story (which tend to be basic concepts of sci-fi in general), I think the story itself is more original than the individual parts that make it up. Or is there another story that does the same things?

As for Master Chief being a good character... he's hard to read. And sure enough, little of his character shows in the first game, and many of his character traits will only be brought to your attention by reading the books; but that doesn't mean they're not in the games. Especially in Halo 2 and 3, Master Chief is quite a bit more than just a faceless suit of power armor, but I admit that it is kind of hard to read, and the games do not make it as obvious as the books do. But it is there.

It uses an overly used plot line where you don't really find out anything more about the story in game. It's more of completing objectives and finding out where to go next. Check out Marathon (also made by Bungie), and you will see that they are capable of making a space game without losing plot line.

You don't really find out anything more in the story in game? Did you play the same Halo I did? 'Cause I've played through it many times, and each level actually has a clear story-driven goal in mind, and there are many discoveries and one pretty intense plot twist. Say what you will about the quality of the story, but it is structured very well, and progression is clearly present. I just fail to see your point in this post, or at least one that reflects any experience with the game.