"Hardcore games" vs. Social games.

[Deadman Walkin]

I have kept quiet about this for a while, simply because I know I think social games are not fun to me, and I don't even classify them as games. However, there seems to be much talk about how Zynga has triumphed over game companies like EA and Activision, and how they should "be taking several leaves out of Zynga's book."

Spoiler: My bug with social games

Now, personally I don't think gaming companies should be taking any ideas from companies like Zynga. When I look at a game like Starcraft 2, Portal, World of Goo, etc they all are fun to me. They all involve achieving something, and they make the journey to the end fun and interesting. Games like farmville involve plowing your field, planting crops, harvesting crops, plowing your field..... etc. All for what? To plant more crops so you can buy useless things that don't help you in the game or do anything. They are just there.

So, my question to you is why do you think people even like games like farmville? Do they need the most basic form of what I could scarcely call a game? Even checkers is fun, and the rules and play are basic.

 

[ChromeAlchemist]

Because people like games with little or no depth, because they require little or no commitment. They can play, leave, and so on. They don't have to worry about what part of the story they're on, or anything like that.

Edit: Actually, since it's Farmville, it has just the right amount of commitment required to make it enjoyable for it's target crowd. It's basically Harvest Moon Lite IMO (very lite).

 

[Judgement101]

It's basically Harvest Moon Lite IMO (very lite).

[HEADING=2]Super Extreme Lite[/HEADING]

I never saw the issue with social/casual games, I play hardcore and casual

 

[The Thief]

This [http://www.cracked.com/article_18461_5-creepy-ways-video-games-are-trying-to-get-you-addicted.html] combined with how easy to get into they are (I'm sure a large proportion of Farmville players are elderly), how they are integrated into heavily used websites like Facebook (Checking on your friends? Why not have a cow as well?), and the developers performing ritual sacrifices of hardcore gamers (Easiest way to make sure the sacrifice is still a virgin) during a full moon.

 

[Deadman Walkin]

I have played harvest moon, I actually like it, compared to farmville. Farmville requires no time to start, but after a while it takes longer and longer.

 

[The Procrastinated End]

They're for people who don't really want to spend any actual time gaming.

 

[SimuLord]

I suspect it speaks to the natural human drive to want to do ANYTHING but their jobs. Farmville creates the illusion of progress, providing people with a temporary diversion from their dreary, pathetic lives...and can be easily concealed from the boss, something that, say, Starcraft 2 cannot.

 

[manythings]

We all played games from early on (I started on the Amiga 500 twenty years ago) so we've all gone from a small beginning and with progressive generations got bigger more complicated games and controllers. We didn't get an xbox360/ps3 controller at the beginning and told this is a real game by "Hardcore" (I typically spell "hardcore" d-i-c-k-h-e-a-d) gamers and that if we don't like it to "GTFO! GAY NOOB! TEABAG WHORE!"

This is for them not for us, stop your bitching and accept Farmville is what they like and want. If someone wants to go on from Farmville to Harvest moon to a mario game to wherever else they have the option. Casual gaming won't go away because you take issue. They don't give a shit about your opinion since a lot of casual gamers view "Hardcore" gamers with disgust.

Also: http://www.escapistmagazine.com/articles/view/comics/critical-miss/7874-Critical-Miss-21 Pretty much sums it up for me.

 

[Continuity]

So, my question to you is why do you think people even like games like farmville? Do they need the most basic form of what I could scarcely call a game? Even checkers is fun, and the rules and play are basic.

Simple, its accessible... people who would normally panic if you put a controller in their hands and barely know where the power button is on a computer can pick it up and get addicted... they don't know there is anything better and they don't want to know.

 

[Cody211282]

The like it because it's something easy they can do and it doesn't require to much time. They dont want a 20+ hour saga they just want to do something easy and fast.

 

[Zanaxal]

I think its more to do with it that people dont know how to download or get a real game, They just play whatever get's put infront of them on facebook or msn, it's the best advertising out there for a game.

If you had like Starcraft 2 free to play and was ready to play through the browser on facebook, i bet you would get easily 50million ppl on bnet suddenly.. ok not excactly but if you had real GAMES accessible like that then it would be easier. Average people don't want to spend 70-80 euro on game they never seen or heard of before and more likely don't have the computer to run it.

Gradually tho mainstream games are getting more accessible to a wider audience. Due to big success like wow, in my country every Grandpa, mom, kindergarden kid has heard about WoW in one way or a other and probably has brought alot more people oblivious to the form of computer enterainment to the market.

 

[migo]

I think a game where you see success simply by spending time doing it is satisfying, while one that you actually have to work at and have some skill with isn't.

 

[Mr. Fister]

What the more dedicated gamers need to realize is that casual games and social games are a "necessary evil", so to speak. They're there to help non-gamers become more experienced and learn to appreciate the medium more. That way, gaming doesn't become a mutually exclusive affair and thus begin slowly dying on its feet.

 

[DeadlyYellow]

I can't help but think you missed the point of the "take a leaf from their book" saying. At the base, it's not the aesthetics but the utter simplicity and accessibility that make Zynga successful popular with a crowd newer to the gaming medium.

To simplify:
Making Games more accessible to a wider market = Smart.
Making lots of farm simulators = Not Smart

The millions of daily users Zynga sees through it's social games is enough to warrant some attention from the Bog Boys. Of course, Zynga is also a terrible company that uses underhanded tactics and often alienates their fanbase. However, there's nothing saying that a company cannot make social games alongside their mainstream titles. Most of the whining comes from fanboys with a poor idea that corporate business is really about the money.

 

[FullMetalEagle]

I think some casual gamers are just those who are afraid of failing or being seen to be less skilled than their opponent, so they play games with no appreciable consequence for failure and no sense of competition or comparison.

 

[Sovvolf]

Its all about perception. I think Games Like Halo and CoD are Casual or social. To me there are 2 types of gamers

Gamers: Those who play Games Be it if they care for their stats or not.
Hardcore Gamers: Those who yell at their games and freak out when they don't have a 14-1 KDR lol.

I'm with you on this one. I'm actually very sick of hearing the complaints on the whole "Games are for hardcore... Wii is just casual, these games are hardcore... Kinect isn't hardcore...ect.". No they are games, games that you probably don't like, they don't appeal to you, they don't offer as much as you like... But they are still games and you are still a gamer. An hardcore gamer is some one who spends every breathing moment playing games, trying to get every single achievement, looking for all the glitches and easter eggs... Throwing them selves into the mythos, buying every piece of merchandise they can possibly get hold of on there favourite games. Trying to do the game on it's hardest difficulty with ever handicap placed against them... Then you are hardcore... Otherwise your just a gamer... Like every one else.

My whole problem with the caste system we have though is that there seems to be no middle ground. Your either Hardcore or Social/Casual... With or against. Shit, before I'd heard of this caste system, I'd have just classed my self as a Casual or Social gamer. I play games to have fun and get my self in with the story, complete the game then jump onto the next one if I feel like it. That's not what I'd say an hardcore gamer is. But apparently a hardcore gamer is is a gamer who plays games that aren't party games or games for the Wii.

B'ah what do I know... Rant over. Sorry for the rant... I'm just getting a little tired of this elitism "Hardcore" Gamers seem to have.

 

[migo]

What the more dedicated gamers need to realize is that casual games and social games are a "necessary evil", so to speak. They're there to help non-gamers become more experienced and learn to appreciate the medium more. That way, gaming doesn't become a mutually exclusive affair and thus begin slowly dying on its feet.

This could be done with simple games that simply have a high score. Really that's all Space Invaders was.

 

[Mr. Fister]

What the more dedicated gamers need to realize is that casual games and social games are a "necessary evil", so to speak. They're there to help non-gamers become more experienced and learn to appreciate the medium more. That way, gaming doesn't become a mutually exclusive affair and thus begin slowly dying on its feet.

This could be done with simple games that simply have a high score. Really that's all Space Invaders was.

This is true. The more accessible a game is, the more likely it will become popular with everyone. Problem is, developers were starting to forget about accessibility when they started trying to appeal more to the dedicated audience. That's why games like WiiSports Resort and FarmVille are so popular; they're made so that literally anyone can get into it.

What the industry needs more of is games that can help "bridge" the casual audience with the hardcore audience. In other words, more games like Mario Kart Wii and Rock Band, where anyone can play but the more dedicated gamers can still find a lot of content and challenge for them.