Has "A Song of Ice and Fire" ruined fantasy?

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Jandau

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Dec 19, 2008
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So basically, does it make all other fantasy books look bad in comparison? Nope.

While it is a strong series, there are a lot of things wrong with it. The atrocious pacing for one thing, and I can't overstate this enough. The plodding storyline, the utter inability to tie the plot threads together properly, a needlessly obfuscated and convoluted plot, with a number of characters that borders on mental diarrhea, etc. I'm not saying the books are bad, quite the opposite, I think they're great books. However, they are great DESPITE all their shortcomings and they are far from being the apex of the fantasy genre.

Shortly after I finished reading Feast of Crows I started reading the Dresden Files books. They were to polar opposite of the Song of Ice and Fire books - fast, well paced, tightly plotted, not bogged down in endless waves of pointless characters, etc. If anything, I'd say they are better written (by far) than the ASoIaF books. Then I went on to read some Gene Wolfe and his mindfuckery in Book of the New Sun. And not too long before all of that I went through most of the Wheel of Time books, which pretty much filled me up on long, plodding, multivolume epics.

Martin's work is decent, even solid, but not outstanding in general. ASoIaF is carried by a few strong characters and the occasional strong plot twist, mainly based around Martin's willingness to repeatedly do terrible things to his characters. However, his writing style and overall structuring of the books is often lacking.

Another thing worth noting is that Martin owes a lot of his popularity to bridging the gap between Fantasy and "regular" Fiction, to the point where a lot of people who don't normally like Fantasy can enjoy his work. He weaves the fantasy elements in to spice the fiction up, instead of making them integral straight away and asking readers to just suspend disbelief, which is the norm for fantasy (and which fans of the genre do without question, but it turns non-fans off). In fact, most of the "magical" elements of the first few books (dragons aside) can be rationalized away as superstition or coincidence. It slowly ramps up and that buildup is one of Martin's great achievements with the series.

Again, I love the books. I've read all of them twice so far and will likely do another run through them within the next year or so when my book backlog clears. But they aren't awesome to the point of making all other fantasy look bad. Granted, they may strike a chord with someone, but that's normal.
 

Loonyyy

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Jul 10, 2009
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BloatedGuppy said:
Loonyyy said:
And for that I thank him. I like ASOIAF well enough, but I think in the end I prefer Abercrombie. I started with the Heroes before moving onto the The First Law series. Martin's books always take me a while to get into. Once I'm in, I'm in (Apart from A Dance with Dragons), but I think I like Abercrombie's sarcastic subversion of fantasy tropes a little better. He gets a bit mean occasionally, but it's almost always entertaining. And his stories are just engrossing.
Joe might be my favorite author at the moment. He's not as technically proficient as Martin (although he is improving, and he paces better), but his tales are wildly enjoyable. And for such a prolific young author he certainly is turning out quality.
Definitely. I think "Prince" Calder might be my favourite character in any fantasy novel.

I was disappointed I missed Joe's book signing at one of the local book stores last year.
 

Padwolf

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Sep 2, 2010
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It's not ruined fantasy at all. It just means you have a favourite, you have the one that you will hold up like a shining beacon of hope and greatness. I have read the books myself and I think they are absolutely brilliant. However, I still like to read other works of fantasy and I still think they are as good. At the moment I'm reading Queen of the Damned, and I think it's great and I'm very hooked on it.

While I don't entirely think of Harry Potter as a fantasy, I will defend it and say it's one hell of a brilliant series and I dearly wish I didn't leave my copies at home, I want to read them all again.
 

Wolf In A Bear Suit

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Jun 2, 2012
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I've loved the books for years but I really can't handle the social media shitstorm that ensues every weekend during Game of Thrones season. The Red Wedding was ridiculous. It seems like between season 1 and 2 it really took off in terms of fans. I really dread to think what GRRM will do for the ending. I can't see it living up to expectations.
Anyway that's beside the point.
I don't think it ruins it, and I've ploughed through a lot of fantasy series. It is perhaps irritating that A Song of Ice and Fire has absolutely dominated the genre recently, but it's by no means unbeatable. For instance the books had been around for years and only received the recognition when HBO produced a masterfully produced and acted show. You can be guaranteed there are many equally good series which you haven't heard of because the literature isn't backed by millions of dollars.
Love the books, but I really wish Martin would hurry up and write them. The fact its taken this long says to me that he had no idea where the plot is going specifically, and we're being set up for a fall.

Can anyone recommend me a fantasy book series actually? I haven't read anything good in a while.