Can't find it this Earth's Chernobyl.bluegate said:
I wouldn't say 'somewhat'. The entire catastrophe was caused by rigid communist hierarchy and the denial of the person in charge that they found graphite in the reactor. If they acted on facts instead of delusional propaganda they would have taken the proper steps to prevent meltdown instead of overriding the system pretending nothing can go wrong.Samtemdo8 said:
I'd exercise an extraordinary amount of caution attributing the disaster to a particular political or economic system, rather than the actual cause: systemic corruption wrought by an environment of opacity and unaccountability, which can happen anywhere.stroopwafel said:
Communism has nothing to do with that mindset. They had the same mindset at Comanche Peak when they had an improperly installed nuclear reactor.The NRC, EPA and all government officials involved were bought off and tried to cover it up. My family went into hiding over this due to them blowing up one of my father's coworkers cars and sending men to threaten my mother while she was gardening in our yard. If the engineers, including my father didn't go to the press (multiple news agencies refused to run the story before they found ones that would mind you) they would have just tried to hide it even though it was leaking and affecting homes and a daycare. ALL capitalists involved didn't make the situation any better. Bad people do bad things. Actual communism should have more oversight, not less if their system was designed properly. I don't think anyone accused Russia or the US of designing it properly, however.stroopwafel said:
Exactly right, that level of corruption DOES happen everywhere, especially in the US as well. All they do is try to cover it up rather than try to resolve the problem and save lives. Years ago we had a lengthy discussion on this in R&P, had links to all the information on NRC region IV and Commanche Peak, the whistleblowers and now it looks like they are trying to bury it and make it impossible to find the links online. Even after they were exposed years ago, they are STILL trying to bury it even after they lost a lawsuit stating they couldn't. Go figure.Eacaraxe said:
I never said a cover-up wouldn't take place in a 'capitalist' company(it has and it will) but that holding on to propaganda at all costs is very typical of communist ideology and the distortion of facts is something Russia still hasn't completely shaken off. And not in the 'fake news' sense of the U.S. but in the entirety of it's institutions, legislative branches and media. Political dissent is as good as absent. That was obviously at it's zenith in the communist era but it demonstrates how harmful the secrecy and denial of facts are. Not just after the accident happened but at the very moment it was unfolding. When that one scientist said he found graphite in the reactor and the apparatsjik in charge says ''you have not seen that'' do you honestly believe dissent would be silenced as easily in a capitalist company? In what political system do you run the risk of being executed when going against orders? I'll give you a hint: not one where there is separation of powers.Lil devils x said:
You conflate disinformation with complete intolerance for any form of dissent. That is what a communist system is, complete repression of anything that goes against authority even if it's to prevent a nuclear meltdown. You defend something what even Gorbatsjov considered was probably the defining moment of Soviet collapse in his memoires.CaitSeith said:
A short story in four chapters, as told via hyperlinks.stroopwafel said:
Pretty sure Edward Snowden might have a thing or two to say about that. At least, in the broader societal sense, especially given the all-too-comfy relations between FANG's and the major telecoms, and our intelligence and defense agencies. Pretty sure James Damore might have something to say about that, too; remember how he was defamed light of his memo coming to public attention, meanwhile Google and Alphabet execs were getting #MeToo'ed and it was in the middle of a gender pay discrimination scandal?
Snowden leaked classified information. If he did that in the SU(or modern Russia for that matter) KGB hitters would have found him a long time ago. Probably everyone close to him as well just to be sure.Eacaraxe said:
Comanche Peak Nuclear Power plant's private investors had people blow up a man's car in an attempt to silence him about an improperly installed nuclear reactor. They had armed men threaten the wives and children of employees that brought up the extremely dangerous radiation leaks and covered up falsified safety inspections. They had the NRC that oversaw their plant in their pocket and instead of oversight they agreed to not only look the other way, but actively cover it up for them. Even the vast majority of the press was terrified to be the person to report it even given a massive pile of documents by dozens of men but kept silent until it was already out there elsewhere. How can you get any more intolerant than that? This happened under Reagan and Bush and Rick Perry specifically lobbied for them to have lax regulation, not some failed soviet state. Instead of punishing those who did this, they promoted them. He is now head of the department of energy for doing these things instead.stroopwafel said:
Or, perhaps, we in the West learned from the mistakes of the "great" totalitarian regimes of the 20th Century, realized the folly of the Streisand effect, and taken the tact of "discredit and defame" instead. One might learn well from the fossil fuel industry's attempts to discredit and defame Clair Patterson and Herbert Needleman, for example.stroopwafel said:
