Healthcare

cookyy2k

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Aug 14, 2009
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Ok, so I'll preface this question with a little story. My fiancee was admitted to our local hospital via A&E on Monday. There are 2 visiting periods every day and I've been up for everyone of them. In that time I've seen security and police called for assaults on nurses, people in for swollen livers having bottles of neat vodka taken off them they somehow got, people refusing medication and people generally ignoring doctor/surgeon/nurse's advice. I was talking to one of the nurses and I said how strange it was some people would act this way and was surprised when she said it's how the majority act.

I've personally known people who get out of hospital and disregard what they were told only to land themselves back in, I've known people take no care of themselves because the doctor/dentist/nurse will sort it.

So all I can assume from above is people are taking the healthcare for granted it being free and all (NHS), the doctors and nurses are doing their best but the people between 18-30 seem to be adverse to listening to them or doing anything to help themselves. All on my (and everyone else's) taxes.

This got me wondering, whilst the NHS is wonderful it does get abused and taken for granted. Would these people be a little more willing to listen and take care of themselves were they to pay for their own healthcare or would it just be the same. Don't get me wrong I wouldn't trade the NHS for a fully privatized health system, but could this be the one way in which America got it right?
 

Philol

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Nov 7, 2011
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I wouldn't trade the NHS for a privatised healthcare system, although as you said I think it would help get patients in line with the responsibilities they have to take. Also my mother was recently treated for a broken arm, and my father has been for trouble with his eyes over the past couple of years, and whilst they could afford insurance it would still be a burden on them.
 

Esotera

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May 5, 2011
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Nope, I very much doubt it. Some people will always be stupid in these situations. There's a small chance that your doctor might be wrong, and that the treatment could be harmful, but unless you're very knowledgeable in the field you should just take their advice (obviously in an informed way).

That said I think the NHS works very well, and if anything we should be socialising it even more. Mental health care is still fairly atrocious, but much better than America. A public health system also seems to be more cost-efficient, at least in the American healthcare system.
 

LetalisK

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May 5, 2010
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cookyy2k said:
Ok, so I'll preface this question with a little story. My fiancee was admitted to our local hospital via A&E on Monday. There are 2 visiting periods every day and I've been up for everyone of them. In that time I've seen security and police called for assaults on nurses, people in for swollen livers having bottles of neat vodka taken off them they somehow got, people refusing medication and people generally ignoring doctor/surgeon/nurse's advice. I was talking to one of the nurses and I said how strange it was some people would act this way and was surprised when she said it's how the majority act.

I've personally known people who get out of hospital and disregard what they were told only to land themselves back in, I've known people take no care of themselves because the doctor/dentist/nurse will sort it.

So all I can assume from above is people are taking the healthcare for granted it being free and all (NHS), the doctors and nurses are doing their best but the people between 18-30 seem to be adverse to listening to them or doing anything to help themselves. All on my (and everyone else's) taxes.

This got me wondering, whilst the NHS is wonderful it does get abused and taken for granted. Would these people be a little more willing to listen and take care of themselves were they to pay for their own healthcare or would it just be the same. Don't get me wrong I wouldn't trade the NHS for a fully privatized health system, but could this be the one way in which America got it right?
Going off of the second-hand experiences of a couple nurses I know, it has nothing to do with paying or not paying for healthcare and more to do with people just being assholes in general. So no, probably wouldn't change.
 

Mr.Mattress

Level 2 Lumberjack
Jul 17, 2009
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As a Diabetic (Type 1, the one that stays with you forever) I love the insurance I have. Sadly, it doesn't love me back, and it's trying to screw me over by changing my Insulin from Humolog to Novalog. I like Humolog, I don't want it to change! I don't trust Public Health Care, but I don't think people should be denied Medicare and Medicaid, unless a replacement that's good can come in. What I'd like to do is make it that Private Companies can't screw over the people (IE, No cheaper alternatives, No "Death Panels" that Private Co's have, Not being allowed to deny anyone into the plan).
 

manic_depressive13

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Dec 28, 2008
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usmarine4160 said:
I like having my privatized health insurance. I always see the same doctors if I have to so I get better treatment than if I was being treated like I was on an assembly line.
I'm confused. We have a public healthcare system in Australia and I always see the same doctors unless I decide I want to go to a different doctor.

OT: I've never encountered such disregard towards doctors and nurses. Perhaps it's just the area that hospital was in? I would think improving eduction would be a more logical move than privatising the health sector.
 

cookyy2k

Senior Member
Aug 14, 2009
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manic_depressive13 said:
usmarine4160 said:
I like having my privatized health insurance. I always see the same doctors if I have to so I get better treatment than if I was being treated like I was on an assembly line.
I'm confused. We have a public healthcare system in Australia and I always see the same doctors unless I decide I want to go to a different doctor.

OT: I've never encountered such disregard towards doctors and nurses. Perhaps it's just the area that hospital was in? I would think improving eduction would be a more logical move than privatising the health sector.
Well to be fair we are in a town better known for its alcoholics and druggies than its professors. I agree education id the way to solve this. I have just often wondered if a privatized system leads to more personal responsibility or not. Plus not really knowing the American health care system beyond privatization and douche insurance companies (is their any other kind, for any insurance?) I thought I'd see what others thought.
 

Palademon

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Mar 20, 2010
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Well, I've never seen anyone act like that, and presumably through doing so they will die.
So they won't have our money for long.

Besides, I prefer if stupid people be treated well than the poor not get treated at all.
 

TwiZtah

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Sep 22, 2011
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From my perspective, where public health care has always been free (Sweden), I can't even fathom not having it and why some ***** about it and wants it taken away.

Maybe you need time to stabilize, this is new, and learn to not go the doctor for a cold.
 

BiscuitTrouser

Elite Member
May 19, 2008
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usmarine4160 said:
I've had a thought! *http://i54.tinypic.com/96dfdk.jpg*

Why can't we have both? Everybody's happy! Except the insurance companies that will pay many billions in lobbying/bribes to not let that happen
We do in England. I covered this before in a post where you said your mother would have DIED had she not fled the country to seek private health care. And i pointed it was hilarious since private healthcare exists in EVERY country with socialisted health care. You can go private if you have the money here or in Canada. Try and learn from mistakes XD

The system Obama is trying to put in does EXACTLY THIS.... this is probably why everyone is vetoing it. They are either not aware of what it really is or they are rich insurance companies like you said.
 

Behazard

New member
Oct 12, 2011
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People will always do what they think is right.

I work in healthcare with people who have had a cerebral infarct. They recieve medication which has been proven to reduce the chance of relapse to about 5% when taken in with care.

I can't count the number of times I have had discussions with people about this medication and why they should continue to use it "if it has been a month ago they have had their infarct".

Bottom line, people will hear what the doctor has to say. They will weigh it and decide whether they really have to go through all the trouble of following the advice.
 

Thaluikhain

Elite Member
Legacy
Jan 16, 2010
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Well, people who are in hospital probably aren't at their best, it makes sense for them to show their worse sides.

That said, there is absolutely no fucking excuse whatsoever for abusive or obstructive behaviour towards people working at a hospital, that is something that should not be tolerated.
 

Naeras

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Mar 1, 2011
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This honestly sounds less like abuse and more like the people in question simply being fucking stupid.
 

capper42

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Nov 20, 2009
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I think the NHS is great, and one of the best things about living in this country. Sure, it may not be the best quality healthcare in the world, but it means everyone can get the help they need, and the rich, if they want to, can pay the extra for private healthcare.
 

Natasha_LB

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Jan 2, 2011
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Stupid people will always be stupid, forcing them to shell out for healthcare would probably make them more lightly to follow advice, so as to keeps their own costs as low as possible, but I feel that the negatives of having a private healthcare system far out ways this very small positive effect.

That said, sometimes doctors advice is not worth following... so have to keep yourself as informed as possible. I was once prescribed an ointment for a large cyst next to eye... a little research on the cream and cyst in general showed me that it would have absolutely no benefit, so I didn't bother to waste my money on the prescription charge, and instead went back the next day and saw a doctor who gave me antibiotics instead. These didn't really work and the cyst ended up so large that I could no longer open my eye, it was also really painful. I had to see a surgeon in the end it get in cut off, and when I told him about the cream he laughed and told me I should make a complaint about it.

More recently I restarted my antidepressants, I'd been off them for nearly a year, but the incompetent doctor decided to put me straight back on my full dose, without starting at a low one first to let my body get used to it again. Needless to say this put me in to serotonin syndrome and I was very ill. I had considered this might happen, but my need for the pills outweighed the risks, and I decided that the doctor probably knew what he was doing. The reality of the situation was that the doctor was an incompetent fool who could have killed me.

99% of the time doctors are right, and the best thing you can do is to follow their advice. However there are a few useless ones, so always be as informed as you can about your problems, so that you can spot a bad doctor and get a second opinion. Doctors are only human, and even the good ones can make mistakes, so you have to be careful.

On a slightly different note, could any one tell me how psychiatric care works in countries where there is no free health care? What happens to people who attempted suicide? If they want to die, then they'll never agree to pay for anything, so do you just let them die? And could an inpatient at a psychiatric hospital simply stop paying so that they can get out? Also what happens to patients who are unconscious and are unable to be identified? Do they refuse to do any treatment until they can find out the patients health insurance details, even if this means letting them die?
 

SciMal

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Dec 10, 2011
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cookyy2k said:
This got me wondering, whilst the NHS is wonderful it does get abused and taken for granted. Would these people be a little more willing to listen and take care of themselves were they to pay for their own healthcare or would it just be the same. Don't get me wrong I wouldn't trade the NHS for a fully privatized health system, but could this be the one way in which America got it right?
Nope, we didn't get it right.


The big problem with privatized healthcare is affordability. Since the rejection of a government-funded insurance program (thanks Republicans...), health insurance has skyrocketed. Young people, people with chronic diseases, and families around the poverty line can't afford it, so they end up using the Emergency Room and having the hospital foot the bill.

Second, people don't listen if they don't want to listen. Just because a person pays $500/month for healthcare doesn't mean they'll exercise more if the doc asks them to, or will finish the run of antibiotics if they're feeling better in 3 days. That's a symptom of under-education regarding personal health. The person "knows" themselves better than their doctor, so as long as they're feeling good, why bother listening to the guy making $150k/year who's trying to push pills on them? A lot of it is misinformation spread by the absolutely horrendous media.

Seriously, the media - particularly FOX and Oprah's friends - have done significantly more harm than good when it comes to medical education.

Add to that a failing healthcare infrastructure - Family Practices/General Practitioners are abandoning medicine in droves, and not being replaced. They're supposed to be the point-man for non-Emergency issues, but grad students get out of Med school with $200,000 in debt and GP's are on the bottom end of the salary pyramid for a doctor. More than that, many don't even make money since those private insurance companies refuse to reimburse hospitals/docs what they're owed (including the government run healthcare like Medicare). Sure, the Doctor will bill the insurance company $80 for the visit, but the company might only pay back $50. A lot of GP's who run their own office and aren't affiliated with a hospital are simply unable to pay wages.

The Healthcare Reform bill ("Obamacare") is doing some things to address the enormous, glaring issues - but I don't think it will do enough.