Heavy Rain Dev Says Pre-Owned Sales Cost it Millions

[sivlin]

Theoretical bullshit is theoretical bullshit.

Many people who buy used would not purchase the game at full price if they were not given the choice of used. I'm sure the used game industry does hurt developers, but no more than it really hurts every other thing that is sold. Those people who buy used are essentially free advertising for your game IF you made a good game. Developers need to take into account word of mouth sales based on the people who bought the game used and told their friends how much they enjoyed it.

 

[bombadilillo]

Makes you wonder how developers feel about public libraries. Borrow a PS3 game from the library for a couple weeks at a time? From their point of view, that would be robbing developers blind.

I pay 20/a month for this exact thing.

 

[SnakeCL]

I still don't understand why the used-games market exists with services like gamefly around.

It costs far less money per month than even one new game.
You have the option of purchasing the game you're renting. (and actually seeing the condition of the disc)

If you do purchase the game, you are shipped the pristine case and instruction booklets and everything else that was in the case when it was opened.

It supports the developers since Gamefly has to keep popular titles stocked, and subsequently, buys new copies for releases or to replace worn discs.

Its essentially the library model, but instead of the developers seeing none of the money from a used game sale, they see a portion of it from the initial purchase of copies.

 

[Xanadu84]

Alright, a little bit of mathematics here:

3 million people played the game.

Only 2 million played it new.

Therefore, 1 million played it used.

Therefore around 1 million people would likely have traded it in.

Therefore, half the people who bought the game new decided to trade it in for another game.

Your're right there's a problem there. Make a fucking game good enough that half the people who buy it don't want to sell it fucking on. Don't go bitching about what certain people 'owe' you when you quite clearly couldn't make a game that kept people's attention!

A game that has been returned isn't a game that fell short of expectation, or that was a bad game. It is simply a game that doesn't have infinite replayability. And honestly, if you think that any game is actually infinitely replayable, then your probably just playing a game because its addicting, not because its actually fun anymore. This is made even more extreme when your dealing with puzzle games, or games that are strongly story based. Like Heavy Rain.

 

[Nesrie]

It's a part of doing business. If it's not in your business model already, shame on you.

 

[Tipsy Giant]

Heavy Rain Dev Says "Lack of reply value Cost It Millions as consumers sell on a game they have seen all of, which is fair"

 

[ZombieGenesis]

"Tough shit. I dont see car manufacturers whining that half their cars get bought pre-owned..."

This about as many times as humanly possible.
Did they ever consider maybe they aren't entitled to those sales?
If they have THAT big a problem with it as an industry try and lobby to outlaw used game sales then, because that's the only legit way of making this work. Of course that probably will never happen because any sane court in the world will say exactly what I have.

 

[ZombieGenesis]

[Double the post- double the negativity]

 

[FredTheUndead]

Perhaps, but that's nothing compared to the sales lost by being a bad game by a hack designer cost it.

 

[Ubermetalhed]

It's great to see that this thread isn't filled with people who haven't played the game and just want to bash it...oh wait.

Heavy rain was a great game and alot of hard work had gone into it. I can understand why the co-founder would be sore about losing so many sales, I'm sure the money would have been used to fund future projects. Plus Quantic dream aren't Activision, sales really do matter for these guys.

Although there is nothing that can be done about this and frankly most people like buying used games. So I guess QD will just have to cope.

I mean as long as the studio can continue to innovate and produce content like Heavy Rain then the effect of used sales will be little more than an accusation than a truly contributing factor.

Could you please specify what was innovative in heavy rain.

I do hope you have played the game before I respond to this.

Heavy Rain was a uniquely interactive story which allowed you to make hard choices, many which were morally and emotionally based and which effected the entire story.

This game more than any other was different because of the emotion it had in it. It wasn't just about finishing the next level or achieving some menial goal it was about relatable and realistic characters acting and responding to the situations the game presented and you called the shots. For better of or worse their fate was in your hands, for example if a main character dies they are dead for the entire game.

It also on a lesser note added more to quicktime events, the variety of things that you were made to press corresponded with what was happening more closely than a press x to not die scenario. They weren't intrusive and kept the focus on the story and the immersion.

Heavy Rain, in short, was innovative in the way it created a unique story telling experience.

 

[Omnific One]

Here's an idea: make long games that take a while to finish (eliminating the day one trade in issue) or promise and deliver free DLC packs, maybe one every 2 months for 6 months to a year. That will encourage people to keep the game, which keeps used copies off the market for long enough to force people who are interested in the game into buying a new copy.

 

[Xanadu84]

Theoretical bullshit is theoretical bullshit.

Many people who buy used would not purchase the game at full price if they were not given the choice of used. I'm sure the used game industry does hurt developers, but no more than it really hurts every other thing that is sold. Those people who buy used are essentially free advertising for your game IF you made a good game. Developers need to take into account word of mouth sales based on the people who bought the game used and told their friends how much they enjoyed it.

I absolutely have to disagree with you here. I can't name a single person I know who plays video games, and doesn't, when they want to get a video game, look at the rack of new games, and then check to see if they happen to have the game used. In fact, many times, when I used to go into gamestop or a similar store, the cashier would see a person I know walk up to the register with a new game, and the cashier would check to see if they have that same game used, and then tell the customer that they can get the exact same game for a few dollars less.

Also, most second hand stuff is partially used, depreciated, and generally of lesser quality then new. Meanwhile, a used game is exactly as functional as a new game.

 

[Freyar]

I don't know..

The people that keep referencing physical goods like cars, toasters, phones and other BS like that need to realize that there is an inherent difference in a physical good (one that takes physical materials to produce) and a digital piece of work (in which the duplication cost is negligable).

Understand that the game market is having a tough time understanding what it's position is. On one hand, you have the "it's just like any other good" mindset that most people here railing against Quantic Dream are adopting; and on the other you have the "A game is an experience you pay for and by selling it on you are effectively selling your movie theater ticket."

There's no easy way to answer this, especially since game prices on the shelves are going up in combination with sneaky DLC methods of bolstering revenue, but I see Quantic Dream's argument.

"Make a game with more replayability" is a really stupid argument. Every bit of development costs money. Even EA has trouble sometimes with new IPs and story-oriented games having replayability (See Crysis 2). It's much easier said than done when considering the whole picture.

 

[Findlebob]

Every product has a pre owned option. Cars, ebay etc. The games industory are the only ones who keep crying about it.

 

[funguy2121]

Heavy Rain Dev Says Pre-Owned Sales Cost it Millions

Used game sales are one of the biggest threats to the videogame industry, says Quantic Dream's co-founder.

Quantic Dream co-founder Guillaume de Fondaumiere says that the studio lost millions of Euros in royalties to people buying pre-owned copies of Heavy Rain. He estimates that three million people played the game, but only Quantic Dream only saw money from two million sales.

"On my small level it's a million people playing my game without giving me one cent," de Fondaumiere said. "My calculation is, as Quantic Dream, I lost between €5 and €10 million worth of royalties because of second hand gaming." He said that pre-owned sales were one of the biggest threats to the videogame industry as a whole, and one that would affect everyone from developers, to retailers, to publishers if it wasn't fixed.

de Fondaumiere thought that the loss of money from triple A titles would eventually make them unprofitable, and - as the industry isn't a charity - they would simply disappear as a result. If this happened - or if publishers went the "download only" route - then retailers would obviously suffer as well, as one of their biggest revenue streams dried up.

"Now I know the arguments, you know, without second hand gaming people will buy probably less games because they buy certain games full price, and then they trade them in," he said. "Well I'm not so sure this is the right approach and I think that developers and certainly publishers and distributors should sit together and try to find a way to address this, because we're basically all shooting ourselves in the foot here." He said that there was a case to be made that games were too expensive, and he thought that there was a price point that would make everyone - from the consumers to the publishers to the retailers - happy.

The rest of the industry would seem to agree with de Fondaumiere's assessment of the threat posed by pre-owned sales, as multiple publishers have started incentive schemes to try and get people to buy their games news. Some of them are carrots, like offering additional content for new customers, and some of them are sticks, like forcing pre-owned customers to pay extra for multiplayer.

However, as much as de Fondaumiere might want it to be so, just lowering prices isn't going to fix everything. As it stands, the amount of money a retailer makes on a used game is significantly higher than the amount it makes on a new one. If the industry is serious about tackling used game sales, the going to have to make that not be true anymore, and that's a really tall order. Sure, cutting prices would help a little but it would really only be treating the symptoms and not the disease.

Source: GamesIndustry.biz [http://www.gamesindustry.biz/articles/2011-09-12-quantic-dream-we-lost-and-8364-10m-on-second-hand-heavy-rain-sales]


Permalink

1984 - Babbage's is founded in Dallas, TX.

Second Half of the 1980's - video game home market takes off.

1994 - Babbage's merges with a bunch of other game retailers, ultimately becoming Gamestop. During this time, one of their competitors, Funcoland, is selling itself primarily on We will buy back your used games. Other retailers are following suit.

2000 - Gamestop merges with Funcoland, and with Electronics Boutique a few years later. All the while, more and more retailers, including all of the major video rental businesses like Blockbuster and Hollywood video, are buying back used games. A number of revolutions occur in the industry, and none of them appear to be hindered by the nefarious used games market. The big N still sees piracy as one of the biggest hits to their sales, and say nothing about used games hitting their profits.

Late ot's - Best Buy starts buying and selling used games. Major AAA studios start denying content to second-hand gamers (which I've accepted with the recent purchases I've made - no Mass Effect downloads for this boy!). Video game companies truly make it to the big leagues, spending for the first time sums that are actually somewhat comparable to some Hollywood movies on their games. And, like all big leaguers do when the recession hits, they whine as though the way in which the economy has hit them even begins to compare to the way the economy has hit, well, me.

Besides, isn't this all supposed to go away once we reach the mythic cloud anyway? Or is that just some of the idealistic talk that comes around every few years in techie land (ahem! virtual reality) ?

 

[SyphonX]

I bought Heavy Rain new (finished it too), and now I just feel ashamed.

People that said this is a "golden age" for the gaming industry are absolutely right. I never thought gaming would come to this in my lifetime. I grew up in the Atari / NES days, in retrospect these days were pretty sad and cheap, and I never imagined we could be here today.

So if you manage to sell at least 2 million copies on a single, exclusive platform, during a global recession, and you still find the time to ***** that you didn't get 'more'... well.. [insert one-liner insult here].

Really, gaming is and has been my #1 hobby my entire life, and the level of disrespect given to it's customers has started to reach unacceptable levels. Gamers are starting to become spineless, submissive cash-cows, who are still beaten and prodded even after a game reaches critical success.

 

[DaJoW]

I love how virtually every argument ever made in favour of piracy is also made in favour of second-hand sales, with the only difference being that the majority of the forum seems to approve of them in the latter case but not the former. "They were never going to buy it [at full price] anyway, so it's not a lost sale", "Make better games worth the sale price", "suck it up and accept it"...