Hello Escapists! And Possibly An Unpopular Opinion

[Guffe]

So, I recently signed up here and thought I would say 'hey' to people. I guess this ended up becoming a new topic because it seemed a good way to start, rather than jump in on topic with my first post.

Greetings from me too and welcome!
Your inbox will be spammed to death by quotes

I have never played SC2 so I am no use on that point

If you have questions ask someone.
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or any other function that seems strange then click the "quote" button and look at how someone has done a certain thing.
We like to help out and most are friendly people so asking for help is no problem.

 

[MadMatt910]

Wow, many replies. I did expect this thread to disappear into obscurity within about 5 minutes, so yeah I am pleasantly surprised.

snippety snip snip

Hopefully I did that right...

I'm a big Supreme Commander fan - love both FA and 2 (apparently that's heresy to most people ), I love COH, SOASE, W:EE and the Total War Games. Starcraft just always seemed so lacking in genuine strategy to me by comparison - each of those examples being far better at its own area where SC2 just seemed to be a blend of micro and macro that never truley achieved greatness in either.

Thanks for the kind welcomes, always appreciated.

Oh and ill be staying away from basments, red buttons or anythign else that would disturb an otherwise peaceful stay

 

[Nouw]

I think I finally understand why I suck at Starcraft 2. Back to Company of Heroes for me!

WELCOME, MADMATT!

WELCOOOOOOME, TO THE MACHIIIIIIINE!

So this is the warm feeling you get when you get when you understand a reference .

 

[sextus the crazy]

I think I finally understand why I suck at Starcraft 2. Back to Company of Heroes for me!

WELCOME, MADMATT!

WELCOOOOOOME, TO THE MACHIIIIIIINE!

So this is the warm feeling you get when you get when you understand a reference .

Pink Floyd and Company of Heroes. Is this the feeling they call "love"?

 

[Nouw]

Pink Floyd and Company of Heroes. Is this the feeling they call "love"?

Spoiler: Looks like we finally found love guys!

You have a kickass name by the way.

 

[Patrick Buck]

WELCOME. WELCOME AND ENJOY YOUR STAY.

Oh, and I haven't played any RTS for ages either, so I'm basically just commenting to say welcome.

 

[FootloosePhoenix]

Don't push the red button.

This is the most important bit of advice that can be given, by far. If you ever push the red button, every user's avatar will be replaced by Justin Bieber for 24 hours.

You have been warned.

That's ridiculous, you must be kidd--oh.

Well see y'all in about 24 hours.

 

[BrotherRool]

I can't help but think it has such little strategy when you have to stick so rigidly to build orders and counters are so strong.

The sad thing is, this is pretty much true even in chess. Maybe at the very top level of chess you can leave build orders behind, but there's a lot of memorisation and slogging to get there.

I'm not sure if there's a strategy game that could survive a competitive metagame without ending up at build orders. If choices are meaningful but finite then that means some are going to be better than others and the good ones will eventually be adopted by everyone else you will die.

Look at the beginning of Starcraft 2, The Little One won competitive matches against the top players with builds he'd never even tried before that match but as the metagame advances people understand what works and what doesn't and the options are lowered.

There's still chance to seek joy in the variation though and if everyone else is memorising build orders then they'll have forgotten/never learnt how to deal with some of the more unconventional strategies. And there's a chance to develop your own if you have the right sort of twist of mind. TLO for example, now always has a plan and build order, but it's always one he's invented himself.

Check out this guy. Masters level player, has APM that barely breaks 60 at the best of times and is normally 30 compared to his opponents 150+ but he still wins because he's crazy enough to build a Planetary Fortress at his natural and use Mass Ravens.

If you want something quicker, look how he deals with a canon rush

Spoiler

 

[MadMatt910]

shhnip

Yeah I do see how build orders are going to be important, it's definitely a good point. Just seems SC2 is more reliant on very rigid build orders than most. It could be because it feels so rush heavy and turtling is a joke, so perhaps that has something to do with it.

I think perhaps some more RTT type ideas can help to stop build orders being so concrete. Flanking, moral, unit ammo etc can put more focus on tactics rather than either having to memorize hotkeys and accurate clicking.

I guess also in games like FA there is a more balanced macro triangle of rush, turtle, boomer and decent balance between units. There are multiple options to approaching every situation - mainly because the counters are a little softer.

 

[Rip Van Rabbit]

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OT: I completely suck at RTS, played Starcraft 1 and its expansion when I was younger. Perhaps due to gaming preferences becoming more refined over the years, starcraft 2 just felt slightly shallow. Or more likely it's the nostalgia talking

 

[DugMachine]

Welcome. Don't press the buttons and try to get along. We're good people mostly ! Hope to see you around.

OT: Can't talk about this topic because I suck arse at SC and most strategy games.

 

[Kpt._Rob]

Welcome to The Escapist, where having an unpopular opinion is kind of like breathing, and you're more likely to get people trying to counteract the claim that you have an unpopular opinion, than you are to suffer the angry hoards of people actually offended by your opinion.

 

[sextus the crazy]

Pink Floyd and Company of Heroes. Is this the feeling they call "love"?

Spoiler: Looks like we finally found love guys!

You have a kickass name by the way.

Sextus puer molestissimus est.

yeah, that's me with the blond hair there.

"Where'd you get those Latin skills?"
"Ecce Romani, word!"

 

[Divine Miss Bee]

welcome newbie. prewarning: leave the oldscapists alone, their hearing isn't great and they'll shake their canes at you.

also stay away from the other newbies. as i haven't vetted them yet, they could still be annoying.

just, don't talk to anyone. we're terrible people. and click any buttons you find, they're usually for streamlining site updates. and if we make you too crazy, we have a convenient <link=http://www.escapistmagazine.com/groups/view/Asylum-open-mic>asylum set up just in case.

 

[The_Waspman]

And what's a starcraft?

I think it's kind of like a warcraft, except in space.

To quote one of the characters from StarCraft:

This is NOT just WarCraft in Space! Its far more complicated. I know its not 3D!

Back OT. I loved StarCraft back in the day, when I was an actual PC gamer, but I've been hearing a lot of negative stuff about StarCraft 2. Can't say that I'll ever play it, because my PC doesn't have a graphics card that can handle it. I briefly considered getting such a graphics card, so I could play SC2 and the original Mass Effect, but thats coming to PS3 soon anyway.

Ahem.

So yeah, I've seen one of my friends playing SC2, and I liked the way it looked (almost exactly like the original StarCraft) and I was well excited for it but yeah, I'm too used to console gaming now.

Then again, I never played RTS against other people. Playing video games against other people via this internet thing people keep gabbing about just sounds crazy to me.

 

[Lopende Paddo]

[quote="MadMatt910" post="18.390795.15712327"
Now, lets be clear, I don't think SC2 is actually a bad game. The 3 factions are well balanced and it clearly takes a massive amount of skill to perfect actions per minute and clicking accuracy. It just feels like SC2 is not a great strategy game. Of course it could be that I just don't gel with it, I was just curious of how other strategy gamers see it.
[/quote]

Hi and welcome to the escapist!

Everyone is entitled to their own opinion when it comes to games, If you like the old ET game or dislike [fill in blank] (its easier to think of the worst game ever than the best...) who am i to argue, but for the sake of converting you here's something that might change your mind aboutt starcraft. only takes 20 min of an epic match

Enjoy:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wD5A7D5dgsA&list=FLp9yXnfolEGXIGAR_JwbRSQ&index=74&feature=plpp_video

 

[BrotherRool]

shhnip

Yeah I do see how build orders are going to be important, it's definitely a good point. Just seems SC2 is more reliant on very rigid build orders than most. It could be because it feels so rush heavy and turtling is a joke, so perhaps that has something to do with it.

I think perhaps some more RTT type ideas can help to stop build orders being so concrete. Flanking, moral, unit ammo etc can put more focus on tactics rather than either having to memorize hotkeys and accurate clicking.

I guess also in games like FA there is a more balanced macro triangle of rush, turtle, boomer and decent balance between units. There are multiple options to approaching every situation - mainly because the counters are a little softer.

I'm being a little unfair here, but if you get to grandmaster (=D) the counters become pretty soft again and I feel like the rigidty of the build orders mainly comes from having such a competitive pro lever that even the people right at the beginning have access to plans for how to play the game right at the top level, which reduces the area of skill level where you can do your own thing.

The problem with how I think of SC2 is I always think of it in terms of e-sports and less in terms of non-pros being able to have fun playing the game =D

 

[CpT_x_Killsteal]

This is the most important bit of advice that can be given, by far. If you ever push the red button, every user's avatar will be replaced by Justin Bieber for 24 hours.

You have been warned.

What untruths are these? Everyone know's the red button unlocks entry to a special section of the forum known as the Basement, a club for all the coolest users to hang out.

Click here OP ->

<- Join us!​

Oh and welcome to the Escapist MadMatt, enjoy your stay!

What does the red button actually DO? I've hit it like 15 times and so far I haven't noticed anything.

 

[Tanakh]

I can't help but think it has such little strategy when you have to stick so rigidly to build orders and counters are so strong.

So you want strategy in SC 2? Watch Seed VS MC at the most recent GSL finals, that sonova Seed won the highest level torunament of SC 2 in the world by playing strategy and pure mind games, in a mechanical, macro/micro game he doesn't hold a candle against MC.

I know where you are coming from by saying what you said, but that is only the surface. There are many "smart players" like Seed, Ghost King (is he named that way anymore?), even that mofo Stephano that win by being smart and have sound strategies.

 

[CleverCover]

This is the most important bit of advice that can be given, by far. If you ever push the red button, every user's avatar will be replaced by Justin Bieber for 24 hours.

You have been warned.

What untruths are these? Everyone know's the red button unlocks entry to a special section of the forum known as the Basement, a club for all the coolest users to hang out.

Click here OP ->

<- Join us!​

Oh and welcome to the Escapist MadMatt, enjoy your stay!

What does the red button actually DO? I've hit it like 15 times and so far I haven't noticed anything.

Usually, after about three times you notice yours and everyone else will have Justin Bieber for an avatar. And it will last that way for 24 hours. Unless, you actually do have the Biebs as an avatar...then it won't make much of a difference. Personally, I like N7 bunnies.

OT: Welcome to the Escapist! Don't click the red button, stay away from R&P (Not worth it), and enjoy all the lovely things that come with the site. Also, I generally suck at RTS, and the last one I played was Halo Wars, so I'm hardly a good person to give any advice on the genre.