Hello Sweetie - Doctor Who Brings River Song Back For Christmas

Thaluikhain

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Orga777 said:
Seriously, both of these characters are so poorly written and conceived that if feels like Stephanie Meyer wrote them.
No, it wasn't Stephanie Meyer it was Steven Moffatt...huh...never noticed how similar those two names are.

Next we'll be seeing a character who is supposed to be a genius, and who looks human but is really something else and centuries old. Maybe having a romance with a much younger woman.
 

Queen Michael

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canadamus_prime said:
Queen Michael said:
canadamus_prime said:
Damnit! I was hoping she'd stay gone.
Me too. She's so smug. I can't stand that.
She was an intriguing mystery when she was first introduced, but the more we learned about her the less I liked her.
True that. In her first episode, I liked her. But from then on? Smug, smug, smug.
 

Orga777

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thaluikhain said:
Orga777 said:
Seriously, both of these characters are so poorly written and conceived that if feels like Stephanie Meyer wrote them.
No, it wasn't Stephanie Meyer it was Steven Moffatt...huh...never noticed how similar those two names are.

Next we'll be seeing a character who is supposed to be a genius, and who looks human but is really something else and centuries old. Maybe having a romance with a much younger woman.
Wait... it all makes sense now! Sephanie... Steven... Meyer... Moffat... They are the same person! No wonder Doctor Who turned into Twilight for nerds since he took over! XD

But, yeah, I know Doctor Who has had the issue about The Doctor and romance since it came back in general. That is probably the worst part about all of this... I think that is the reason people like Donna and Amy the best. Since they didn't really get romantically involved with The Doctor.
 

LongAndShort

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May 11, 2009
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Nice to see all the people in the comments who read this and shared my first thought.

"Shit."

I don't think I'll be watching much Doctor Who next year.
 

Piorn

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Aw come on guys, I liked her.
If I'd have any beef with a character, it's clara. Her character almost makes the Doctor the sidekick in his own show!
 

Orga777

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Piorn said:
Aw come on guys, I liked her.
If I'd have any beef with a character, it's clara. Her character almost makes the Doctor the sidekick in his own show!
Oh, Clara is awful, no doubt. She might be the worst after all that nonsense in Season 8, but River is also pretty terrible a character, and I did consider her the absolute worst before Season 8. Her whole character is just there for The Doctor's sake. She doesn't do anything on her own what so ever unless it involved The Doctor.

Actually, Moffat just sucks horribly at writing female characters in general. Even Amy had some issues half the time. Look at the jokes in the Victorian England crew. If it wasn't for Strax, there would be nothing salvagable at all about that pandering garbage.

Also, there is this that explains it all perfectly.
http://rebeccaamoore.com/2014/05/29/university-study-on-sexism-in-bbcs-doctor-who-infographic/
 

Megalodon

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Orga777 said:
Actually, Moffat just sucks horribly at writing female characters in general.
That's because he can't really. He seems to write the same female character multiple times. They're always extroverted sassy types who have flirty dialogue with the doctor and rarely (if ever) do anything badly. So essentially River Song again and again. The only exception I can think of is the girl from UNIT whose character boiled down to 'nerdy fangirl'. This was at its worst imo in last series' finale, with:
The genderbent Master. Such a chore to watch, 'oh look it's evil River Song cosplaying Mary Poppins'. Contrasted very poorly with John Simm's performance, which was marvellous. Manic, charismatic and nicely creepy when the situation called for it.

Long and short of it. This news saddens me. The last series was the second worst since the reboot, despite Capaldi being amazing (better than Tennat or Smith imo). I'd hoped that the series might improve, with less stupid (Kill the Moon/That Forest One) and unsubtle meta plot (ever Moffat series). Unfortunately this is not a good sign
 

Zero=Interrupt

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Ugh. I thought we were done with that irritating Mary Sue for good.

At this point it's almost better the series go back into retirement for another 30 years.....
 

The Harkinator

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Let's hope she's only coming back to wrap up her storyline. Let's just do "A Night in Darillium" and have the last meeting between her and The Doctor, where they see the Singing Spires. They can try some banter with her and Capaldi's Doctor, have him look sad because it's their last time together, he can give her a Sonic Screwdriver, then part ways. Moffat can have his sad moment as the Doctor says goodbye to Professor Mary Sue for the last time.

Then I'll throw a massive party. I hate River Song. Like many mysteries, she's so much not interesting before we actually get to know her. The character that met the Tenth Doctor was very good, it was an interesting concept a time traveler would inevitably face. In just a couple of episodes they were able to hint at a larger past and make the audience feel sorry for her because this man who means so much to her hasn't got a clue who she is, and he has no idea why she's significant.

All the stuff afterwards was blatant Mary Sue territory. Like Amy and Clara, River Song basically took over any story she was in and relegated The Doctor to a sidekick role in his own show, getting to do a bunch of cool stuff with almost no negative repercussions. Her "romantic" interactions with The Doctor came off less as a genuine relationship being built and more as River getting all the attention because the scriptwriter thinks she's wonderful.

Kill her off and let's put this smug "sweetie" and "spoilers" nonsense to bed. Though I'm sure Moffat will just keep an evil version of the same character with Missy.
 

Beetlebum

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Episodes -with- river song aren't bad. The Library, Time of Angels, Pandorica and The Impossible Astronaut are some of my favorite episodes.
Episodes -about- river song, however, are often quite weak (Wedding, Kill Hitler).

As for their final date, see the "First Night" "Last Night" episodes. Though, you know, wibbly wobbly.
 

Vigormortis

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Woohoo! Christmas came early!

Oh, not because of the news that River Song would be back. No, no. It came early because I just knew there'd be endless bitching about how "Moffat's still ruining Who". Sure enough, I saw the complaints in the usual places. (One colleague practically lost his mind with rage)

No, Moffat isn't ruining Who. His run is almost no different than RTD's run. They share many of the same positives and negatives. In fact, most of the complaints I've seen levied against Moffat's run can be applied to the vast majority of RTD's run. The only major difference between the two is that Moffat's current runs have higher production values.

I've seen the fans whine "I hate this Doctor because *reasons*!" since the 80's, and I suspect I'll see it for as long as the BBC keeps the show running. And I also suspect most of the reasons will boil down to "I hate this Doctor because he's not MY Doctor!"

O.T. - I look forward to the special. River Song is a fun character.

Something Amyss said:
I don't get it. Most of the problems (or, at least, things people complain about) that exist under Moffat existed under Davies as well.

I mean, I do hate Clara, but she's basically Rose 2.0
I'm convinced that as the show becomes more popular, the more the "true Who fans" hate it.

I've become more convinced of this as many of the individual reasons I've heard for that hatred, the less sense the reasons make. Or, more to the point, the more egregious the double standards become.

I actually know someone who said he hated the Tennant and Smith runs because most of the episodes were "Monster of the Week" scenarios, while he sorely wished for a return to the 'old' Who.

I could do nothing but laugh. Audibly. In front of him.
 

FalloutJack

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Vigormortis said:
"true Who fans"
True Who Fans are people who can watch and enjoy the entire series, people who don't complain too much about the little things. It's a very big show. There's always going to be something that bothers someone out of it. The point is that people get angry over practically nothing. I am looking forward to all of this.
 

Vigormortis

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FalloutJack said:
Vigormortis said:
"true Who fans"
True Who Fans are people who can watch and enjoy the entire series, people who don't complain too much about the little things. It's a very big show. There's always going to be something that bothers someone out of it. The point is that people get angry over practically nothing. I am looking forward to all of this.
I think people need to realize that the show is, and has always been, a monster-of-the-week kids show, with the occasional over-arching plot line that pans out over the course of a season. A soft sci-fi affair designed to entertain the parents and scare and enthrall the kids. Everything else is just ancillary bits added on top of that core formula by a given series show runner and writers.

As such, it baffles me why so many act as though Moffat's or RTD's 'monster-of-the-week' stories are somehow a betrayal of the series tone. It's what the series has always been.