Help a gamer with a tough desicion (piracy, EA related)

[Eamar]

You have no god-given right to play the game. Either pay for it or don't play it at all. Simple as that.

EDIT:

I can't buy everything I play

Correction: you can't buy everything you want to play. Again, you have no right or need to play all these games.

I love movies. I can't afford to watch every movie I want to see at the cinema. I compromise. I choose the movies I see at the cinema carefully, only seeing the ones I'm most keen to see. For the rest, I have to wait until I can pick up the DVD at a price I can afford, or even *gasp* not see them at all.

It's called real life. You can't have everything you want. Deal with it.

 

[.No.]

You have no god-given right to play the game. Either pay for it or don't play it at all. Simple as that.

EDIT:

I can't buy everything I play

Correction: you can't buy everything you want to play. Again, you have no right or need to play all these games.

I love movies. I can't afford to watch every movie I want to see at the cinema. I compromise. I choose the movies I see at the cinema carefully, only seeing the ones I'm most keen to see. For the rest, I have to wait until I can pick up the DVD at a price I can afford, or even *gasp* not see them at all.

It's called real life. You can't have everything you want. Deal with it.

Actually, it's called reality. While you can't get everything you want, you can take whatever you can, whether you're supposed to or not. You can do whatever you want, so long as you can. Whether it's morally right or not is up to the individual.

 

[Saulkar]

I've said it in multiple threads and I'll go ahead and say it here: There is no excuse for piracy for 1st world countries (the 3rd world one is a different argument that I'm not going to go near).

What about games that are no longer sold, supported, or even recognised by companies anymore, or were never ported off of an obsolete system like the N64?

CAPTCHA: how about that! - It speaks the truth.

 

[tippy2k2]

What about games that are no longer sold, supported, or even recognised by companies anymore, or were never ported off of an obsolete system like the N64?

CAPTCHA: how about that! - It speaks the truth.

I gave a much deeper run-down for my own "piracy rules" in other threads (though I never ever pirate either way but I can sympathize with certain situations). I didn't go in-depth on this thread since it's a new game they were asking but I can throw my view down if you'd like (this is from an earlier thread where I go into more detail:

No. If you can find a second hand copy at a reasonable price (or another format), you buy it (this price will vary but my rule has always been $200ish; never ran into a game where I couldn't get it for less but then again, I don't go old/obscure very often). Piracy is wrong, slippery slope, blah blah blah, cliche cliche cliche.

EDIT: Final Fantasy 8 for the PC? Then I'm going right back to no.

Amazon.com: Final Fantasy 8 for the PC: $80
Playstation Network (if you have a PS3): $10
Amazon.com: Playstation 1 and Final Fantasy 8: $20 (PS1 after shipping) and $12 (FFVIII after shipping); $32 total

This is available in so many different formats for a minimal price that it doesn't pass the one exception I make to the rule.

The only times I feel it's OK to pirate is if you are unable to access the game in any way, shape, or form OR if it's at such a high price that it's not worth it (I gave $200 as my example here and I'm pretty happy with that. It's not a small amount but if you really wanted the game, I think $200 is fair.). IF the game is available on another format (PS3 store like the above example), then the $200 rule does not apply and I think you have to get it for the PS3.

Are there exceptions to this? Probably but this is how I've always defined the rules of piracy and I personally feel that it's very fair.

EDIT: Not that I think it's your intention Saulkar but I'm going to state it anyway. People, you don't need to bother trying to convince me that piracy is OK or morally acceptable because you're not going to succeed; I guarantee it. If you've got absolutely nothing better to do and want to try, feel free but I figured I'd just save you the time.

 

[Eamar]

You have no god-given right to play the game. Either pay for it or don't play it at all. Simple as that.

EDIT:

I can't buy everything I play

Correction: you can't buy everything you want to play. Again, you have no right or need to play all these games.

I love movies. I can't afford to watch every movie I want to see at the cinema. I compromise. I choose the movies I see at the cinema carefully, only seeing the ones I'm most keen to see. For the rest, I have to wait until I can pick up the DVD at a price I can afford, or even *gasp* not see them at all.

It's called real life. You can't have everything you want. Deal with it.

Actually, it's called reality. While you can't get everything you want, you can take whatever you can, whether you're supposed to or not. You can do whatever you want, so long as you can. Whether it's morally right or not is up to the individual.

Yes, yes, that's all very edgy and nihilistic of you. Choose your own destiny, make up your own moral code, it's a dog eat dog world out there, take what you can etc... *sigh*

 

[Spitfire]

BUY IT- SECOND HAND that way your not feeding EA. and your not pirating!

Not really possible since it locks up to an Origin account once you activate it. Also, used PC games in south america are er... not something you can actually get. Anywhere. We don't have the big Gamestops and such. But yeah, it would be a good idea if it was possible. (and then someone would step up to tell you about how bad you are for buying used games instead of new but whatever)

In that case, what I would suggest, is looking for price drops at online distributors, such as Steam. If you're patient, it's not at all unlikely that a game you're interested in will get a price drop eventually. There are a couple of websites that can help you keep track of current discounts, two of them being steamgamesales.com and cheaparsegamer.com.

Failing that, you can try something a little more unorthodox, but nonetheless completely legal, and that's buying a game key. A great resource for finding game keys is gamekeyfinder.de.

A couple of warnings about this, though. Before you buy a game key, look up reviews for the website that you want to buy it from, and see if it's trustworthy.
You should also watch out for regional restrictions, which can come in two forms:
1. Most game keys have to be redeemed on an online distribution service, but if the service in question does not distribute a game in your country, then it's possible that they won't allow you to redeem your key for that game.
2. A key might be intended for use only in a certain country (most often Russia), in which case, again, digital distributors might not allow you to redeem it.
Websites that sell game keys will often inform you about no. 2, but never about no. 1, so watch out for that.

You can also try looking for deals on Amazon.com, but only look for digital content, and ignore anything that requires physical delivery, because international deliveries are usually very expensive.

Hope that helps.

 

[gmaverick019_v1legacy]

If you guys are wondering, this is what ended up happening:

I found it at 18 dollars in India. God bless international credit cards.

I guess I have a new conclusion: I CAN stand some bullshit if it's for an 18 dollar price tag.

PS: And for everyone interested, the discount is still up on India's origin store until this friday, if you can acces it (most people can't, others use VPNs, I accessed simply with chrome, not sure why it didn't react to my IP)

just be careful, the sims just wreaks of greed off of EA, those expansions and the micro of it all...good heavens, if you went and bought all of sims 3 shit right now, you'd be spending a fortune on shit that shouldn't cost 30 dollars in a bundle at this age.

 

[Jazoni89]

You have no god-given right to play the game. Either pay for it or don't play it at all. Simple as that.

EDIT:

I can't buy everything I play

Correction: you can't buy everything you want to play. Again, you have no right or need to play all these games.

I love movies. I can't afford to watch every movie I want to see at the cinema. I compromise. I choose the movies I see at the cinema carefully, only seeing the ones I'm most keen to see. For the rest, I have to wait until I can pick up the DVD at a price I can afford, or even *gasp* not see them at all.

It's called real life. You can't have everything you want. Deal with it.

Actually, it's called reality. While you can't get everything you want, you can take whatever you can, whether you're supposed to or not. You can do whatever you want, so long as you can. Whether it's morally right or not is up to the individual.

Yes, yes, that's all very edgy and nihilistic of you. Choose your own destiny, make up your own moral code, it's a dog eat dog world out there, take what you can etc... *sigh*

Yeah, but who's going to stop you otherwise...the law?

Yeah, they don't give a living damn if you pirate a ten year old game for your personal use for example. I just wish people would realise this, and stop being so frigged when it comes to piracy. Sure It's great to own the original copy, and I personally much prefer having something physical than to some shitty torrent that takes a couple of hours to download. Plus It will support the developers in future games, which is the main reason why I personally frown upon people pirating brand new games. When it comes to old games though, there are certain circumstances which this becomes impossible, and you have to let go of your own morals to play them, due to lack of availability, or something that is expensive, like System Shock 2, and games for obscure consoles, and Arcade games for MAME.

The Youtuber Totalbiscuit also agrees with this sentiment, and says that you should buy if you can, and if it supports the said publisher (like for example, you can download the game from Steam, GOG, Virtual Console, ect), but not if it doesn't, because you are personally not hurting anyone at the ending of the day, and you are only missing out for the sake of your own tight morals. So yeah, I think the topic creator should buy the new Simcity if he wants to support the industry, and stop even more stricter DRM being forced into our games.

Saying all that though, If you got caught selling a few pirate copies of say Simcity 2000 for money, at a Car Booty/Flea market, then you might be looking for a bit of a hefty fine, or a slap on the wrist at worst.

 

[.No.]

Yes, yes, that's all very edgy and nihilistic of you. Choose your own destiny, make up your own moral code, it's a dog eat dog world out there, take what you can etc... *sigh*

That's cool. Just take a couple words and base my beliefs on them. But fine. Take it anyway you want, misconstrue my ideas as much as you like, put words into my mouth... *sigh*

 

[Saulkar]

What about games that are no longer sold, supported, or even recognised by companies anymore, or were never ported off of an obsolete system like the N64?

CAPTCHA: how about that! - It speaks the truth.

I gave a much deeper run-down for my own "piracy rules" in other threads (though I never ever pirate either way but I can sympathize with certain situations). I didn't go in-depth on this thread since it's a new game they were asking but I can throw my view down if you'd like (this is from an earlier thread where I go into more detail:

No. If you can find a second hand copy at a reasonable price (or another format), you buy it (this price will vary but my rule has always been $200ish; never ran into a game where I couldn't get it for less but then again, I don't go old/obscure very often). Piracy is wrong, slippery slope, blah blah blah, cliche cliche cliche.

EDIT: Final Fantasy 8 for the PC? Then I'm going right back to no.

Amazon.com: Final Fantasy 8 for the PC: $80
Playstation Network (if you have a PS3): $10
Amazon.com: Playstation 1 and Final Fantasy 8: $20 (PS1 after shipping) and $12 (FFVIII after shipping); $32 total

This is available in so many different formats for a minimal price that it doesn't pass the one exception I make to the rule.

The only times I feel it's OK to pirate is if you are unable to access the game in any way, shape, or form OR if it's at such a high price that it's not worth it (I gave $200 as my example here and I'm pretty happy with that. It's not a small amount but if you really wanted the game, I think $200 is fair.). IF the game is available on another format (PS3 store like the above example), then the $200 rule does not apply and I think you have to get it for the PS3.

Are there exceptions to this? Probably but this is how I've always defined the rules of piracy and I personally feel that it's very fair.

EDIT: Not that I think it's your intention Saulkar but I'm going to state it anyway. People, you don't need to bother trying to convince me that piracy is OK or morally acceptable because you're not going to succeed; I guarantee it. If you've got absolutely nothing better to do and want to try, feel free but I figured I'd just save you the time.

I was not trying to convince you of anything, I just wanted you view (which I completely disagree with and leave it simply at that). Lastly what do you say about 15-30 year old Arcade cabinet ROMS?

 

[Vegosiux]

Well, I'd say stuff with microtransactions in it falls into the category of "Not worth my time or bandwidth to even pirate" in my books. Actually, a lot of stuff falls into that category lately. Back in my high school days, "piracy" was a social activity, somehow. It wasn't about "getting stuff for free" as much as it was about exchanging experience, sharing in the fun and all that.

Now....now it's just about getting as many ones and zeroes for all zeroes. Seriously, I don't get it, I'm hard pressed to find games I'd even consider worth pirating lately. Why would I want more crap? I mean, okay, it's free crap, but it's still crap. And don't get all "sour grapes" on me, I throw cash at indie stuff.

 

[Owyn_Merrilin]

What about games that are no longer sold, supported, or even recognised by companies anymore, or were never ported off of an obsolete system like the N64?

CAPTCHA: how about that! - It speaks the truth.

I gave a much deeper run-down for my own "piracy rules" in other threads (though I never ever pirate either way but I can sympathize with certain situations). I didn't go in-depth on this thread since it's a new game they were asking but I can throw my view down if you'd like (this is from an earlier thread where I go into more detail:

No. If you can find a second hand copy at a reasonable price (or another format), you buy it (this price will vary but my rule has always been $200ish; never ran into a game where I couldn't get it for less but then again, I don't go old/obscure very often). Piracy is wrong, slippery slope, blah blah blah, cliche cliche cliche.

EDIT: Final Fantasy 8 for the PC? Then I'm going right back to no.

Amazon.com: Final Fantasy 8 for the PC: $80
Playstation Network (if you have a PS3): $10
Amazon.com: Playstation 1 and Final Fantasy 8: $20 (PS1 after shipping) and $12 (FFVIII after shipping); $32 total

This is available in so many different formats for a minimal price that it doesn't pass the one exception I make to the rule.

The only times I feel it's OK to pirate is if you are unable to access the game in any way, shape, or form OR if it's at such a high price that it's not worth it (I gave $200 as my example here and I'm pretty happy with that. It's not a small amount but if you really wanted the game, I think $200 is fair.). IF the game is available on another format (PS3 store like the above example), then the $200 rule does not apply and I think you have to get it for the PS3.

Are there exceptions to this? Probably but this is how I've always defined the rules of piracy and I personally feel that it's very fair.

EDIT: Not that I think it's your intention Saulkar but I'm going to state it anyway. People, you don't need to bother trying to convince me that piracy is OK or morally acceptable because you're not going to succeed; I guarantee it. If you've got absolutely nothing better to do and want to try, feel free but I figured I'd just save you the time.

I was not trying to convince you of anything, I just wanted you view (which I completely disagree with and leave it simply at that). Lastly what do you say about 15-30 year old Arcade cabinet ROMS?

Well heck, if you're gonna follow a $200 rule...

Seriously, you could buy an old arcade cabinet for that. I know because the videogame club at my university has been looking into getting one for the student center. Why on earth would you set your personal limit for a domestic console or PC game that high when it could buy you a used arcade cabinet, a new surround sound receiver, or another similarly big purchase? If a used game costs $200 a pop, it's almost certainly because it's a rare collector's item, and the rightsholders don't stand to make any money off of it regardless of whether you buy or pirate.

 

[Wild_Marker]

Oh wow, I accidentally seem to have revived this thread with the last post.

Guys, READ the first posts, you're just repeating what others said at this point AND the topic wasn't piracy, nor it was the defense of it. It was a discussion about percieved value of SimCity considering all the bullshit you can get as an EA customer (that got waaaaay out of hand because I mentioned piracy to put some context in).

If you guys are wondering, this is what ended up happening:

I found it at 18 dollars in India. God bless international credit cards.

I guess I have a new conclusion: I CAN stand some bullshit if it's for an 18 dollar price tag.

PS: And for everyone interested, the discount is still up on India's origin store until this friday, if you can acces it (most people can't, others use VPNs, I accessed simply with chrome, not sure why it didn't react to my IP)

just be careful, the sims just wreaks of greed off of EA, those expansions and the micro of it all...good heavens, if you went and bought all of sims 3 shit right now, you'd be spending a fortune on shit that shouldn't cost 30 dollars in a bundle at this age.

True, though I believe Maxis is smart enough to know the difference between audiences of the Sims and SimCity. I mean think about it, the Sims was a precursor to all the Facebook games, not by it's gameplay I mean, but by the type of audience they managed to catch. You can use that bussiness model with this audience, but you can't so easily pull that off with core gamer audiences a.k.a the SimCity playerbase.

 

[gmaverick019_v1legacy]

Oh wow, I accidentally seem to have revived this thread with the last post.

Guys, READ the first posts, you're just repeating what others said at this point AND the topic wasn't piracy, nor it was the defense of it. It was a discussion about percieved value of SimCity considering all the bullshit you can get as an EA customer (that got waaaaay out of hand because I mentioned piracy to put some context in).

If you guys are wondering, this is what ended up happening:

I found it at 18 dollars in India. God bless international credit cards.

I guess I have a new conclusion: I CAN stand some bullshit if it's for an 18 dollar price tag.

PS: And for everyone interested, the discount is still up on India's origin store until this friday, if you can acces it (most people can't, others use VPNs, I accessed simply with chrome, not sure why it didn't react to my IP)

just be careful, the sims just wreaks of greed off of EA, those expansions and the micro of it all...good heavens, if you went and bought all of sims 3 shit right now, you'd be spending a fortune on shit that shouldn't cost 30 dollars in a bundle at this age.

True, though I believe Maxis is smart enough to know the difference between audiences of the Sims and SimCity. I mean think about it, the Sims was a precursor to all the Facebook games, not by it's gameplay I mean, but by the type of audience they managed to catch. You can use that bussiness model with this audience, but you can't so easily pull that off with core gamer audiences a.k.a the SimCity playerbase.

oh while I agree there is a big difference, to EA, you are just another sucker

that is all they see.

 

[Squilookle]

Don't. Just skip playing the game altogether and boot up SimCity2000 again.

SimCity2000 is best SimCity.

Really?

People always say 3000 is the best. I played it for a few minutes and when I tried to zone a simple 5x5 residential zone on some land it came out as a fractured mess because the land wasn't uniformly flat. I assume SC2K is no better.

I'll stick to SC4.

I have NEVER heard anyone say 3000 was the best. Everyone and their dog vouches for 2000. I am no exception. 2000 is just about perfect.

Buy tropico instead. I loved me some simcity also back in the day but even though the new one looks good, I'm expecting ea to fuck it up beyond just requiring origin or the weird social things its gonna use.

As an older fan of Simcity (see above) I've always glanced at Tropico like you glance at that girl a few desks over that keeps glancing at you back. Is she into me and my tastes? Would I like her if I tried/asked her out? I hear she's got a sly sense of humour that might appeal to me. (Why) should I give her a go? (And do I go for her, or go instead for one of her older sisters? God this analogy is getting creepy...)

 

[Wild_Marker]

Buy tropico instead. I loved me some simcity also back in the day but even though the new one looks good, I'm expecting ea to fuck it up beyond just requiring origin or the weird social things its gonna use.

As an older fan of Simcity (see above) I've always glanced at Tropico like you glance at that girl a few desks over that keeps glancing at you back. Is she into me and my tastes? Would I like her if I tried/asked her out? I hear she's got a sly sense of humour that might appeal to me. (Why) should I give her a go? (And do I go for her, or go instead for one of her older sisters? God this analogy is getting creepy...)

I always found tropico a little lacking in scale. I mean it has personality in droves, but SC has both the personality AND the scale. And a LOT more numbers.

PS: How crazy it is that we talk of Tropico and um... women analogies and the CAPTCHA for this is "Hot Sauce"

 

[tippy2k2]

I was not trying to convince you of anything, I just wanted you view (which I completely disagree with and leave it simply at that). Lastly what do you say about 15-30 year old Arcade cabinet ROMS?

I feel that it applies to my above rules (though I have revised it slightly; my $200 amount was just pulled out of my ass and now that I've actually thought about it with 'Owyn Merrilin's' take, I dropped it to what I feel is a much more reasonable amount.

Also, though I've enjoyed our little back and forth, I think we angered the OP with our off-topic conversation (SORRY OP! I didn't mean to hijack your thread!) so if you want to continue it, we'll have to start our own thread or PM instead.

So here is what you've all been waiting for! Tippy2K2's only exceptions to piracy (please, I know everyone's excited but hold your applause). This is for first-world countries for I do not have an opinion on it for third-world countries:

1. The game has to be unobtainable (never brought to your country) or it cost a stupid-large amount of money to obtain the game (I've set that amount now to $60, the price of a brand new game. I think that's perfectly reasonable).

2. The game has to be at least two generations back (so currently N64/PS1 era and back OR ten+ years old). If the game has not been released in your country, you may ignore this rule, however...

3. If the game has not been released in your country but is THEN released in your country (see: Operation Rainfall), I feel like you have to purchase the game legit now.

4. If the game has been re-released on a current system (my previous example; Final Fantasy 8 on the PS3 store), it is not piratable (generation clock resets so you have to wait before rule 2 takes effect again).

I personally still will never pirate but I'm not going to look down upon pirate's if they stick with my rules (not that pirates care but still...) I certainly don't expect everyone to agree with my stance but these are my guns and I will be sticking to them.

 

[Oskuro]

My personal formula regarding piracy is as follows:

If it is not worth my money, it is not worth my time.



There are plenty of worthwhile games out there you could be playing, many of them for a fraction of the price of an AAA title.
And, failing that, there are movies to watch, books to read, people to catch up to, or paint to watch dry.

Plenty of things to invest your time (and optionally money) in, instead of falling for the hype of overpriced, manipulative and outright insulting entertainment products meant to squeeze you for all your money with no regards for your satisfaction as a customer.

Yeah, I rage.