Help me explain this grammatical mistake.

[Angie7F]

So, I need to explain why I think one of the the following is wrong.

A) " I am cooking something. Can you guess what it is?" , "I just took a photo. Can you guess who it is?"

VS

B) " I am cooking something. Can you guess what is it?" , "I just took a photo. Can you guess who is it?"

I know we have some very smart people on this forum...
Pleeeaaaase help before I start obsessing over every other grammatical rule.


( I would like to simply tell the person I have this dispute with, "because I am right and you're wrong, shut the f@@k up", but since this is work related I need to be "logical"...)

 

[Giftfromme]

A is correct because of some good reasons that someone else will point out

 

[Angie7F]

I am a good escapist, so I did my own research.

Apparently it's something like this.

- Can you guess who it is?
- Who is it?

The two sentences above are correct.
However, some people get it mixed up and say

can you guess who is it.

If it were, "Can you guess? Who is it?" then, you are correct.

I still have no real reason, but I think this is proof enough...

 

[DoPo]

The explanation is easy, A is correct, because it is proper use of the language.

More seriously, though, I don't really know. I just know it is correct. I think it might have something to do with the interrogative sentence structure - the verb is mostly near the beginning. Well, except when there are two verbs, in which case (well, probably some cases, not always) the second one goes at the end.

 

[BeeGeenie]

I would have said "I just took a photo. Can you guess of whom?"

But yeah, A is correct, because when you begin a question, the main verb, in this case "Can," is moved to the front of the sentence to indicate the interrogative, but all other verbs follow their subjects as normal, "who/what it is" because they are part of a dependent clause. Verb-Subject-Object is the correct form only in the independent clause of the sentence, not a dependent clause.

You're asking them if they can guess. the phrase "what/who it is" is extra information about what you're asking.
If it's structured as two questions then it has two answers, and it just feels wrong. Think about it:
Can you guess? Yes, I can guess. About what?
Who is it? I don't know, but I can guess.

 

[King of Asgaard]

I would have said "I just took a photo. Can you guess of whom?"

But yeah, A is correct, because when you begin a question, the main verb, in this case "Can," is moved to the front of the sentence to indicate the interrogative, but all other verbs follow their subjects as normal, "who/what it is" because they are part of a dependent clause. Verb-Subject-Object is the correct form only in the independent clause of the sentence, not a dependent clause.

You're asking them if they can guess. the phrase "what/who it is" is extra information about what you're asking.
If it's structured as two questions then it has two answers, and it just feels wrong. Think about it:
Can you guess? Yes, I can guess. About what?
Who is it? I don't know, but I can guess.

This, to the letter.
I actually hear B on a daily basis, and it drives me up the wall.

 

[Kragg]

ok I just woke up but it took me 4 reads before I saw the difference between A and B, my brain just read it the right way when I read B

When speaking I guess you could use B, can you guess, what is it? kinda, sorta

 

[BlueberryMUNCH]

I wouldn't use a comma or a full-stop; I'm more of a ;;;;;;;; guy myself.
Meh, maybe I overuse them, but I got an A* in my A2 English coursework and got special praise for my writing style so...I dunno xD.

 

[Esotera]

I genuinely cannot see the difference between A and B.

Either way, I don't think either of the solutions are correct - a semicolon is needed for the first sentence as the second structural unit refers back to the first. B seems awkward and needs rewording.

"I am cooking something; can you guess what it is?"

 

[MrTwo]

How could you choose B? It just sounds wrong, probably for that reason that BeeGenie posted with all the big words and such.

 

[MetalMagpie]

A) "I am cooking something. Can you guess what it is?" , "I just took a photo. Can you guess who it is?"

VS

B) "I am cooking something. Can you guess what is it?" , "I just took a photo. Can you guess who is it?"

I'm guessing the reason for the confusion is that the word order "is it" is used in English to indicate a question (whereas "it is" indicates a statement).

Person A: "The sky is blue."
Person B: "Is it?"
Person A: "It is."

However, your example "Can you guess what it is?" actually has two components to it. The first is question ("Can you guess?"), which is indicated by the phrase "can you". Just like we saw with "it is"/"is it" the reverse of this phrase ("you can") is a statement.

The second part of the sentence is a clarification. I'm asking you to guess "what it is". This is phrased as a statement, not another question. Phrasing both parts of the same sentence as questions is grammatically incorrect (think a little bit like a double negative).

Here's the sentence as two valid questions:
"Can you guess? What is it?"
This is possibly what your friend is thinking of.

But if we want them in one sentence we need to make sure we only ask the question once:
"Can you guess what it is?"
"What is it you can guess?"
The second question has a slightly different focus (and a bit of an odd sound to it) but is perfectly valid English.

Another more common-sense way of looking at it might be deciding which of these sentences looks correct:
"Can you see what colour the sky is?"
"Can you see what colour is the sky?"

Basic rule: there are a number of ways to ask a question in English, but you should only use one of them per sentence!

 

[Yopaz]

A is correct. The verb that is reflecting the subject should be after the subject. In those sentences you provided it's not that clear though.

However if you were to change the order of the verb and the subject in a different sentence then you'd end up with "I watched run Thomas" where it should be "I watched Thomas run". Of course there are exceptions to this rule, but usually the verb placement depends on the subject placement in a sentence. Though English is my second language so I might be mixing this with something of my native language.

 

[Angie7F]

SNIP

SNIP

SNIP

SNIP

SNIP.

SNIP

SNIP

SNIP

SNIP

Thank you everyone. You guys are awesome.
See, I knew escapists were a bunch of smart people.

 

[CAPTCHA]

I wouldn't use a comma or a full-stop; I'm more of a ;;;;;;;; guy myself.
Meh, maybe I overuse them, but I got an A* in my A2 English coursework and got special praise for my writing style so...I dunno xD.

Semi-colons are used for breaking apart lists, not pauses.

Cakes can be eaten in the following locations: the kitchen; the lounge; the pit of despair.

 

[Some_weirdGuy]

Because B makes you sound like a 3 year old?


Simply tell them that just cause yoda does it [http://i.chzbgr.com/completestore/2010/4/24/129165845242362800.jpg] doesn't mean you should start swapping around the order of your sentences...

 

[DoPo]

Because B makes you sound like a 3 year old?


Simply tell them that just cause yoda does it doesn't mean you should start swapping around the order of your sentences...

Random Yoda's speech is not. Rules it follows. Something like example B), Yoda will never say.

 

[DoPo]

I wouldn't use a comma or a full-stop; I'm more of a ;;;;;;;; guy myself.
Meh, maybe I overuse them, but I got an A* in my A2 English coursework and got special praise for my writing style so...I dunno xD.

Semi-colons are used for breaking apart lists, not pauses.

Cakes can be eaten in the following locations: the kitchen; the lounge; the pit of despair.

No, they can be used in other sentences, too. The Oatmeal says so [http://theoatmeal.com/comics/semicolon].

 

[CAPTCHA]

I wouldn't use a comma or a full-stop; I'm more of a ;;;;;;;; guy myself.
Meh, maybe I overuse them, but I got an A* in my A2 English coursework and got special praise for my writing style so...I dunno xD.

Semi-colons are used for breaking apart lists, not pauses.

Cakes can be eaten in the following locations: the kitchen; the lounge; the pit of despair.

No, they can be used in other sentences, too. The Oatmeal says so [http://theoatmeal.com/comics/semicolon].

I stand corrected.

 

[WoW Killer]

Topics like this remind me of how bad my education was. My English lessons consisted of reading out poetry one line at a time in between discussions on the correct interpretation. I had to look up what a semi-colon was online because we were never taught that.

Is there some rule that says when you should use a semi-colon instead of a comma and conjunction, or is it down to taste? For instance is there a reason to use "The ice cream truck man drove by my house today; he had big hairy knuckles." instead of "The ice cream truck man drove by my house today, and he had big hairy knuckles."? I usually play it by ear and try to think about what sounds more natural.

 

[Dr. Cakey]

Topics like this remind me of how bad my education was. My English lessons consisted of reading out poetry one line at a time in between discussions on the correct interpretation. I had to look up what a semi-colon was online because we were never taught that.

Is there some rule that says when you should use a semi-colon instead of a comma and conjunction, or is it down to taste? For instance is there a reason to use "The ice cream truck man drove by my house today; he had big hairy knuckles." instead of "The ice cream truck man drove by my house today, and he had big hairy knuckles."? I usually play it by ear and try to think about what sounds more natural.

I'd just avoid them. You can always use a period (I believe a 'full stop' is what the aliens call it) or a comma instead, depending on the context. Well, I guess not always, but I never touched a semi-colon until I read Eats, Shoots, and Leaves. Which I should probably buy some time...